Pulled oil pan, how much of the oil am I actually getting rid of?

02beater_auto

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I pulled the oil pan after jacking it up by the pan accidentally (tired and mistook it for the auto trans) and creating a small hole. :eek:

I guess it isn't the worst thing on earth as I found a loose helicoil behind the drain plug when I pulled the pan and I wanted to go from a 5w30 oil to a 5w-40 oil due to a bit of smoke that I was experiencing but still not convinced that was the root cause.

I went with a 5w-30 oil just 800 miles ago but don't want to reuse that oil being that I am going to a 5w-40 anyways.

Would removing the old oil filter and reseating it cause any more oil to drop from the pan? I want to reuse my oil filter being that it is only 800 miles old as well.

Also, any pointers on putting the oil pan back up like torque sequence? I have the torque specs and I have RTV black.

Thanks for any info.
 

Turtlecharged

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As for the torque sequence, start from the middle and work your way out in an alternating “x” pattern.

You will get a little bit more oil out when you remove the filter (not counting the oil in the filter).
 

Mongler98

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I dont understand the issue. But whatever
Put the new pan on... it happens... no big deal. No need for rtv other than on sharp corners and a tiny dab will do the gasket is more than adequate.
Just fill it up to the fill line on the dipstick reguardless of what does or does not cone out.
Fill with whatever you want. Forget about it. Filter will be fine.
Your changing more than 95% of the contents so it makes no difference. Why waste what you have.....
Your car calls for 5w40 diesel oil anyways so not sure why you were running 5w30... those are spec ouls for cars with DEFs and so on.
 

02beater_auto

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Hey, it is my understanding that no gasket is used in this case and it is straight RTV that is used instead. Am I wrong?

I like a lighter oil...lower cSt and power from a thinner oil. I don't really like to debate that though as those conversations seemed to have fallen out of favor over the years which is ok with me. Either way, I am going to a thicker oil now.

It doesn't sound like it is worth messing with the filter especially since I have been letting it drip dry for days.
 

Nuje

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Yeah - unless something changed from the last time I did an oil pan, there's no gasket (unless your aftermarket one came with one, I guess).
Just the RTV. Follow the instructions and torque sequence and you'll be fine.
 

Mongler98

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What?
I'd parts $11 bucks
ALH and BEW for A4 engines have gasket # 038103609D for oil pan..... you rtved yours on? Lol fail

It if you have a alh

Use whatever oil you want then change it because its smoking from improper oil spec.... whatever.... your debates go down hill because we all preach the use the correct stuff.
Oil thickness has nothing to do with more or less power.
If you want power or better mpg get a tune.
 

03wgn5spd

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What?
I'd parts $11 bucks
ALH and BEW for A4 engines have gasket # 038103609D for oil pan..... you rtved yours on? Lol fail

It if you have a alh

Use whatever oil you want then change it because its smoking from improper oil spec.... whatever.... your debates go down hill because we all preach the use the correct stuff.
Who were you responding to? I have never had my pan off previously and a drop of RTV has not touched it yet so no fail here.

I doubt that the now faintest amount of smoke I am getting will go away because the oil is 40w when hot. This is a fairly small change and my other ALH TDIs run the same 5w30 without any sign of smoke but I thought it would be an ok thing to try. Remember that the oil is still 30w at a given point in time as it warms up and becomes a 40w.

Do you mean to say that these vehicles came from the factory with an oil pan gasket? If not, how could the use of RTV then be a fail?
 
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Mongler98

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Not you. Post #5
I dont care to debate why you are wrong about oil..... do whatever.... you have already decided ages ago on this.
 

03wgn5spd

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Not you. Post #5
I dont care to debate why you are wrong about oil..... do whatever.... you have already decided ages ago on this.
Copy that. I don't particularly care to debate it either. Just because it is no longer a common discussion doesn't mean that I don't hold valid points.
 

Mpaw

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VW have changed their specs on almost all models from 5w-40 to 5w-30. Although there has been some discussion about this, it's not clear why
 

Nuje

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Local VW parts counter says that the OEM 0W30 is now the "official" replacement oil for basically anything with a turbo (507.00 reverse compatible with previous ALH/BEW/etc. specs).
 

Mongler98

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This is why you buy from our vendors. Updated parts.... that gasket I'm not sure if it's new or not but a heck of a lot of things has happend in 20 years....
 

03wgn5spd

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So I think what is happening here is that the gasket is for the earlier steel pan and it is RTV for the later aluminum pan. I might be wrong.
 

Mongler98

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So I think what is happening here is that the gasket is for the earlier steel pan and it is RTV for the later aluminum pan. I might be wrong.
my guess would be that whawt you said was the other way... RTV for steel.... as the steel tends to flex more when tightened... fairly common on most steel covers.
but thats a 100% swag
 

turbocharged798

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There is no gasket on any OEM oil pan on ALH or BEW engines. End of story. Gaskets you get aftermarket is a fix for a non-problem.
 

Mongler98

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What is superseded parts for 900?
i never said there was... i said there was a gasket for it and it comes with the new pan from ID parts....
I said it was a fail to use " pickup clogger" vs using a better part...
the problem with RTV is everyone adds way to much and it goes RIGHT INTO THE PICKUP.
not one car on this earth made past the last 2010's use RTV on anything other then assembly joints and corners.
back in the 90's when these cars were designed.... at least those parts.... the cost to make gaskets the way we have now... was astronomical. now its too cheap NOT TO.
 

turbocharged798

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Dude, just stop. I have RTVs dozens of pans and zero clogged pickups. Its designed to be RTVed, not use a silly gasket. If you put enough RTV on it to clog the oil pickup then you probably shouldn't be changing an oil pan.
 

Mongler98

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So your saying our vendors have bad parts.... that a $11 part is worse than using $8 worth of messy rtv and having to wait?
No, i will not stop.
You are the one putting words in my mouth.
 

jmodge

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Hey, it is my understanding that no gasket is used in this case and it is straight RTV that is used instead. Am I wrong?

I like a lighter oil...lower cSt and power from a thinner oil. I don't really like to debate that though as those conversations seemed to have fallen out of favor over the years which is ok with me. Either way, I am going to a thicker oil now.

It doesn't sound like it is worth messing with the filter especially since I have been letting it drip dry for days.
Whatever brand RTV you use, make it grey. Oil and vibration resistant. There is NO gasket for the oil pan. Oil spec for ALH is 10w-40, 505.00, personally wouldn't mess with the filter. When using RTV, as time allows, I put ALL the bolts in, including bell housing, until I see the RTV start to squash so it is adhered. Then I let it sit and torque it later. Haven't had a negative effect with that method yet.
 

KrashDH

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No gasket for these oil pans per FSM.

FWIW, my truck has a stamped steel pan and it uses a gasket, so the swing and miss above stating that steel needs it because it tends to "flex" more. Not true at all at the actual pan to block interface (in the case of something "flexing", RTV would be a better choice anyway). Even if steel, the shape of the pan lip leads to a very stiff interface, whether it's reinforced or not. So that has nothing to do with the argument here.

"The Right Stuff" is what I use to seal up oil pans when I do. They make a grey and a black. It does NOT have to be grey. Grey is just what a lot of foreign manufacturers use from the factory. If you look at the comparison between The Right Stuff Grey and Black, there is little to no differences. When I was on their website years ago, the comparison chart did mention that black was a tad more oil resistant and had greater flexibility. I've used grey on the ALH oil pan. I've used black on the ALH oil pan. They both work.

Here's something to think about when choosing a gasket vs RTV. Thermal coefficients of the mating materials. This actually should be thought about during the design, but alas, it's overlooked a lot. Case in point. My truck has a timing gear housing that's cast aluminum, mated to an iron block. It's not very thick either. On top of that, the shape is odd, so the bolt pattern is not equal all the way around. There is one spot which has a large distance between 2 of the bolts. Repeated thermal cycles over the years would cause that spot in the aluminum part to separate more from the block where large gap was. The gasket could not overcome this distance delta and the truck would leak in this area.

It's a very hard job to get this timing housing off (to replace the gasket or fix the issue correctly) because you have to pull the cam, which in my truck's particular case, involves a lot of engine work, so it's not for the faint of heart. So most people temporarily solve (or shortcut) the issue by pulling the things necessary to get to this section of the gear housing then just run a bead of RTV and "fillet" it to stop the leak in this area. I decided to fix it correctly. Long story short, instead of slapping a gasket back in there which would eventually fail, I used a bead of The Right Stuff black and did not use a gasket. I chose black because of the more flexible capabilities (even if it's not much more) because of the dissimilar metals. No more leaks.

For the ALH though, grey, black, won't matter. The oil pan is a thick, especially at the mating flange, piece of cast aluminum. It's a rigid connection that's not going to see the same case described above for my truck.
 
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Mongler98

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You all just love scraping rtv off the block don't you!
Old timers stuck in the old ways.....
 

KrashDH

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You all just love scraping rtv off the block don't you!
Old timers stuck in the old ways.....
Haha RTV is newer than gaskets so not really an "old timer" thing. But yeah being in my mid-late 30s, I definitely am an old timer at heart.
Scraping sucks, but if you stick to the instructions of the gasket maker and don't actually fully squish it while it's still wet (ie let it skin over) then it usually comes off pretty clean. I'm not opposed to gaskets by any means, cool they make them now for the ALH. If I have any reason to pull the pan again maybe I'll go this route, but I shouldn't have to. Since I'm running a hybrid pan I can just leave the block interface alone and pull the steel portion if need be.
 

jmodge

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You all just love scraping rtv off the block don't you!
Old timers stuck in the old ways.....
Hey Junior, old time was gasket and non- hardening form a gasket.
 

jmodge

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Everything you need to know as far as RTV applications
 

KrashDH

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Everything you need to know as far as RTV applications
Good information, saved for later date when I know I'll forget.

  • Black RTV can flex, allowing it to retain its bonds between two different material types that will heat and cool at different speeds.
  • Grey RTV has higher density when cured for higher vibration resistance and tight tolerance applications.
;) Kinda looks like they mentioned what I stated above. My research paid off back in the day...
 

jmodge

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Hey Junior, old time was gasket and non- hardening form a gasket.
Cork to be exact, or homemade paper. And I’m not a real fan of silicone since I pulled 3 colors of it out of a Harley engine back in the early ‘80’s, blocking small oil passages. But it is the industry’s standard and works well. I am very careful with it because of that experience, I don’t want it squeezing towards the inside of an engine and coming loose
 

mittzlepick

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no gasket, if you try good luck getting all the bolts in especially the horizontal ones that hold the the trans to the pan its STRUCTURAL and i fixed one someone bodged up a dealer no less. to late for the rear main seal that got killed after the motor flexxed to much. use a good sealant vw has a part number or hondabond, i use black stuff from auto zone also redish stuff never had a pan leak.
 

BobnOH

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Wow, this thread sure went south in a hurry.
Getting back to the OP-
Would removing the old oil filter and reseating it cause any more oil to drop from the pan? I want to reuse my oil filter being that it is only 800 miles old as well.

Also, any pointers on putting the oil pan back up like torque sequence? I have the torque specs and I have RTV black.
There is some oil in the base of the filter housing, plus some in the filter itself. Just leave the filter alone, repair the pan and top up with oil. Do use a full synthetic unless you want to reduce the oil change interval.
Having had several oil pans on and off, I can say it's fairly easy and straight forward. For the ALH, PD and similar engines with factory pan- Clean both surfaces, be sure they are "true" (usually not an issue), use a very thin bead (1/8" or less) of sealant ( go around the bolt holes). Book calls for grey (it cures quicker), I used blue, let it cure overnight. Just be sure what you use is suitable for oil and heat. The black you referenced comes in a few different "flavors", the link provided by Krash spells it out very well.
 
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