Project weight Loss ALH TDI Engine build (56k+ wide screen friendly)

shortysclimbin

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Virginia currently
TDI
Kubvan, mk2 golf, mk6 golf
Well I have finally held off to the point where I have most of the parts and info I need to get this build completed. The more I wait the more cool stuff I have found or been able to discover. I would like to first put out there that I have many hours and questioned a lot of people here and on other sites before I started this build thread. Many thanks to all of you for the help and guidance in the past and in the future I might receive on the thread here. Many of you have backgrounds and info that have allowed these ideas and changes to happen.

Background:

Project weight loss is my mk2 swap project that is replacing the performance side of my daily driver car. During my last build I found having one car (mk4 tdi jetta) as a jack of all traits car hindered what I could do with it in the long haul, and after having a few weekends of working in snowy really cold weather trying to do performance tweaks to get it just right I decided to split my ride into two cars. A mk2 performance oriented rig and a mk3 "winter beater."

The mk2 golf is mainly going to be used for track events and shows, but will still need to be street legal to get me to and from those events. This car is drastically lighter than the stock or modded tdi I was driving weighing in at only 2420lbs in its relatively stock shape. I am planning on removing the non daily needed items hence the name project weight loss.

For more info on the conversion and changes to the car besides engine related changes please visit my swap thread located here:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=199315

Now onto the engine:

Intro:


What we are starting with is a 1999.5 ALH tdi engine from a Jetta tdi that got crashed at 185k miles. I bought the whole car to get all of the swap parts in one swoop.





Electrical related:


The wire harness is being lightened and reduced on both the stock golf side and the engine management size. Basically the only wires we are concerned with in this thread run the engine only. So far what I have found this is only a total of around 6 fuses and three relays total!


Lower end:

The lower ends of the ALH block are much stiffer than an AHU block but not quite as sturdy as the pd130 and pd150 sister blocks and internals. Because of sourcing issues and the fact that I already had an ALH block it was a reasonable compromise to use this as a starting point of my buildup. The goal with the whole short block is to build something that will withstand any bolt on combination of parts that could be thrown at the engine itself. This will allow me to build the major portions of the bock and change out bolt on parts at will later. The parts I have chosen for the bottom end so far are as follows:

Forged lightened stock stroke crankshaft
Forged H rods designed for stock piston pins
81mm Oversized pistons
ARP rod bolts
ARP Main stud bolts
Girdle plate/ crank scraper
Total seal gapless piston rings
Modified OEM oil pan with baffles










These parts alone have lightened up the engine assembly a total of 10.5lbs and will drastically increase the strength over the stock assembly. And if you just did the math that opens up the system to become a 2.0L TDI engine. And on that note I basically just got everything in and will fill you guys in on more details of the machining work, coatings and other nitty gritty when they are done. I have a pile of parts sitting on my table right now and I am a kid in a candy store so I do need to go back to drooling over them with the calipers for a bit….

Upper end head assembly:

The head will have major port work done to it to increase airflow at higher rpms. I have also decided to go with a dual valve spring setup with titanium retainers to reduce any valve float we may be getting due to excessively high pressures. Overall the head is being built to handle higher RPMs and pressures. Head parts at this point are going to be the following:

a) PP performance camshaft (this may get changed out to any one of the other three cams on the market if I can get my hands on one with .5mm more lift throughout.)
b) Lightened Hydraulic lifters
c) Dual HD valve springs and light weight valve spring retainers
d) Stock intake valves will be used
e) Oversized swirl polished exhaust valves are in attempts to be made
f) The head will have drastic bits of porting done to it. (I do not think I will be doing this work myself).

So far here is a pretty parts picture for you to enjoy J



Ok so that’s it thus far. I will update you guys with more info here in a bit I have a lot of things that are being built and done at the same time. The build will also most likely go on for a while due to this being a part time project. So does anyone have any questions, comments or suggestions?

(Edited to have links)
 
Last edited:

shortysclimbin

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Virginia currently
TDI
Kubvan, mk2 golf, mk6 golf
lol, Yes I know I kept waiting for someone else to start a thread like this and decided that I might as well take the bull by the horns. BTW do you think I might be able to get some of this porno into the tdi Calendar? :) To bad I dont have a women to model the parts for me...
 

mrchill

TDIClub Enthusiast, Super Secret Diesel Ninja Vend
Joined
Sep 16, 2003
Location
MASS! home of THE WORLD SERIES CHAMPION RED SOX! x
TDI
96 B4v red \ 98 Mk3 green\98 Mk3 Jetta black\ 99 Mk4 Jetta green x2\ 99 Mk4 Golf silver x2\ 99 Mk4 Jetta black\ 97 B4 sedan green\04 JSW gold\03 JSW silver
Nice to see the project underway. Sorry I wont have valves until the second month of next year. Bummer! Although......the head work does improve things a lot. Oh....and if you are cryo treating, let me know. I'll send you some stuff.
 

shortysclimbin

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Virginia currently
TDI
Kubvan, mk2 golf, mk6 golf
Chris,

Have you got your items for cryo treatment machined yet or are then not needing to be done? I would suggest having all of that work done first.

And patience grasshopper... valves will come in time...

PS- almost forgot! anyone notice anything odd about that ACC bracket? :) :) :)
 

Got Bearings?

Veteran Member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Location
SoCal
TDI
2001 Golf GLS
shortysclimbin said:
Upper end head assembly:

The head will have major port work done to it to increase airflow at higher rpms. I have also decided to go with a dual valve spring setup with titanium retainers to reduce any valve float we may be getting due to excessively high pressures. Overall the head is being built to handle higher RPMs and pressures. Head parts at this point are going to be the following:

c) Dual HD valve springs and light weight valve spring retainers

Have you explored the idea of using "beehive" valve springs? They are used on the new Chevy LSx motors and are about 40% lighter than a typical valve spring setup (springs, locks and retainers). You get better valve control and lighter mass - quicker REVS! A win-win situation.... They are all the rage in the V8 world and in racing circuits. Does it hurt to borrow some technology? :)

Now, I am very new to VWs and not sure of the spring heights and measurements between VW (diesel) and typical Chevy V8 stuff but if the basic outer dimensions/pockets are close to Chevy, I'd explore this avenue. I wouldn't think a valve spring is "diesel" specific since its job is to close a valve that's been actuated by a cam. The right spring, spring height and spring pressure should be all that you'd need to make it work - diesel or gasser.

It could be as simple as enlarging the spring pocket or nothing at all. Just picking out the right spring... who knows? Since you are doing a complete build, you really have nothing to lose but some time to research.

Comp Cams online valve spring chart.
http://www.compcams.com/technical/Catalogs/106-07/296-306.pdf

Some good reading....

http://www.corvettefever.com/techarticles/corp_0509_beehive_cylindrical_valvespring_info/index.html

http://www.corvettefever.com/techar...ve_cylindrical_valvespring_info/photo_03.html

http://www.performanceproductreview.com/Base/Files/PDF/Articles/PPR2006/Beehive.pdf
 

oldpoopie

Vendor
Joined
May 14, 2001
Location
Portland Oregon
TDI
2001 golf gl, 2006 jetta, 1981 ALH swapped rabbit pickup, 1998 beetle
awsome. Awsome AWSOME. I've got a mildly ported head in my shop right now. I'd considered doing dual valve springs. Do you need to do any machining to the spring seats in the head?
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
Shorty, what measures, if any, will be done to reduce the compression ratio? And are any coatings/treatments of engine components in the plans?
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
Only after taking a closer look at the pictures did I see the neat work on lightening the crankshaft! :) That's a lot of investment on the expensive bottom-end parts that you'd want to secure against any failure happening to them... how about cryo-treating, nitriding, shot-peening, etc.?

Man, I wish I could have a camshaft for you to run on this baby!!
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
oldpoopie said:
I'd considered doing dual valve springs. Do you need to do any machining to the spring seats in the head?
The newer TDIs use single springs, but there was a period where duals were used out of the factory. Stock TDI dual valve springs are actually sold by Techtonics Tuning as an upgrade for the gassers, so there's little need to worry about needing more spring pressure over the OEM duals to cope with RPMs that would still be lower than most gasser engines. Where more spring seating pressure is also needed is when you will be running extremely high boost pressures.

Anyone who ventures to installing larger valves into a TDI head will be charting new territory, and IMO stands to gain a lot of air flow together with some port work (compare the 36/31.5 mm TDI intake/exhaust valves with 8V VW gasser engine's 40/34 mm, respectively.)
 

shortysclimbin

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Virginia currently
TDI
Kubvan, mk2 golf, mk6 golf
Those beehive valves do look really nice. One thing they did not mention in the article is that going from a dual spring setup will reduce wear on the valve components. I would say that could net ~35 grams less mass in the valve assembly from what I have if we could find springs that are comparable. But if you are really going that far my suggestions would be to switch out the hydro system in our head and go to a solid lifter at the same time. I was debating doing this but decided that starting work with mild changes and going from there would be the best bet. If someone is interested in doing bee hive valves I would say starting with what I have and just chaning the valves out to something with the same spring K value as what both springs have would do the trick nicely.

TdiMiester,

I am glad you asked. The things that will be changed are the following as long as a CR of 17-17.5 can be maintained:

1) exhaust valve Diameter will be increased by 1mm
2) exhaust and intake valve reliefs will be deapened by .5mm
3) The bowl lip will have more of a [FONT=&quot]chamfer to help induce flow into the bowl. ( I have yet to determine how much is being removed but mostlikely very little.
4) The point in the bowl will be rounded out slightly giving the omega shape a slightly fatter circle.

The pistons are actually going to be sent out to get cryo treated and then will be top coated with a heavy duty ceramic and side coated with an anti friction coating. I was debating coating the under sides of the pistons with a coating that will shed oil rapidly but I think I am going to not go for that on this build. I have spent a lot of time reviewing all of the engine "piston threads" and have collected a lot of notes over the course of a year. All in all I dont want to reduce the CR tooo much because I live in vt and would like to take the car to the ice races on the lake here :)

Hope that answers the questions for now... btw 87turboquattro are you looking over my shoulder at my parts :) You get a cookie :)

But hey no ones guess whats different with that AC bracket! Come on guys ill give you the part number if you do figure it out :)
[/FONT]
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
My guess on the brackets -- in the spirit of your project -- is that it doesn't accommodate a power steering pump... nor AC for that matter.

You have an exciting project there! But yeah, definitely DON'T coat the undersides of the pistons. You want to MAXIMIZE heat transfer there to the oil from the piston squirters. Otherwise everything sounds and looks like they going in a good direction.

What about cryo-treating the rods and crankshaft together with the pistons?
 

shortysclimbin

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Virginia currently
TDI
Kubvan, mk2 golf, mk6 golf
Dave,

You are correct its a work of art isnt it? :) dont worry I have a box of crap getting shipped out to get frozen..

PS can you work your magic with some of the owners of your cams for me? Someone has to have it sitting on a shelf collecting dust... Or maybe you could clue me in on where to get that cam blank?
 

shortysclimbin

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Virginia currently
TDI
Kubvan, mk2 golf, mk6 golf
Correct on the bracket. its a non ac unit. If you look at it the pump is in the top and the center is the alt. Way down bottom is where your PS pump should go. PN# 038 805 145 A

I am planning on removing the PS unit on the Bottom (see picture below)





Yelram, as far as costs... Dont ask. More than most would budget for an engine build. I decided because I am single and dont have kids now is the time to play with projects like this..
 

vwmikel

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 5, 2005
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
'94 Golf Sport TDI
heyman421 said:
A2's are so scarce these days :(

I miss my 2.9 swap every damn day.......

You see them driving around here all the time....along with your occasional Rabbit or Scirocco 1 even ;)
 

shortysclimbin

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Virginia currently
TDI
Kubvan, mk2 golf, mk6 golf
Yes VT has very many rusted mk2s here but nothing that doesnt have duct tape and spray foam holding them together for inspections.

Total weight I am shooting for 2000lbs but that many be to light. If I could get it down to 2200 with better weight distribution I would be happy. Especially considering the cage, and heavier engine...
 

Left Coast Resident

Ubẽr Clubbie
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
San Fernando Valley (Los Angeles)
TDI
2001, 2002 & 2003 Jettas
shortysclimbin said:
Yelram, as far as costs... Dont ask. More than most would budget for an engine build. I decided because I am single and dont have kids now is the time to play with projects like this..
I think you're on the right track here. And if you could build me an uber monster engine at a reasonable price, you could have BOTH of my kids -- just trying to be accomodating.

I wonder what it would be like to have an 11 second MK4, and I believe the things you're doing point the way to the next steps necessary to help propel my dream forward (I swear no pun intended) . . .
 

shortysclimbin

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Virginia currently
TDI
Kubvan, mk2 golf, mk6 golf
LOL what a run signature left coaster! And do your kids come with tax breaks? I could use a few this year... :) ow wait ummm if they eat as much as I do I would be broke nm... Although I will keep on trying to forfill your dreams at night, and shhhh I will not tell your wife if you dont ;)

Other progresses that should be noted: block was sent to get bored out, baked and bead blasted. should be done in a week. Pistons will be getting worked here shortly...

And in reply to most of the questions on the engine parts. I would like to get the major of the engine build and tested before I reveal all of what is going on and where I got them from. I will tell you though that most of this info is already here on tdiclub and on vortex.

I will also post pics up of the tdi stock crank vs the aftermarket one for you guys tomorrow. All I can say is WOW!
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
This project is bound to be a success since it all started with the Deere in that first picture.
 

vwmikel

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 5, 2005
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
'94 Golf Sport TDI
I actually had a Canadian '88 Jetta TD before I put my current Golf together. I had considered putting a TDI in there at first but it had too many doors and too many trunks.

The late MK2's weigh nearly as much as the 2L MK3's (the VR6 is something like a 150-200lb penalty bringing the car to 2700 and change) which is why I decided to go with a MK3. When it's all said and done I think my car is probably about 500lbs lighter than the MK4 that the engine came from. I don't think you'll have any problems getting it down to 2200 or at least close to there.

For those who still think Rabbits weigh 1800lbs....well, maybe some of the early ones do, but they didn't by '84. My Rabbit GTI weighs about 2150 on the truck scale. It probably has about 50 extra pounds of turbocharger and piping under the hood though. I think they used thicker metal in the later cars and they also became very liberal with their undercoating and sound deadening.
 

DieselDub764

Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Location
Singapore
TDI
Polo Caddy
shortysclimbin said:
Well I have finally held off to the point where I have most of the parts and info I need to get this build completed. The more I wait the more cool stuff I have found or been able to discover. I would like to first put out there that I have many hours and questioned a lot of people here and on other sites before I started this build thread. Many thanks to all of you for the help and guidance in the past and in the future I might receive on the thread here. Many of you have backgrounds and info that have allowed these ideas and changes to happen.

Background:

Project weight loss is my mk2 swap project that is replacing the performance side of my daily driver car. During my last build I found having one car (mk4 tdi jetta) as a jack of all traits car hindered what I could do with it in the long haul, and after having a few weekends of working in snowy really cold weather trying to do performance tweaks to get it just right I decided to split my ride into two cars. A mk2 performance oriented rig and a mk3 "winter beater."

The mk2 golf is mainly going to be used for track events and shows, but will still need to be street legal to get me to and from those events. This car is drastically lighter than the stock or modded tdi I was driving weighing in at only 2420lbs in its relatively stock shape. I am planning on removing the non daily needed items hence the name project weight loss.

For more info on the conversion and changes to the car besides engine related changes please visit my swap thread located here:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=199315

Now onto the engine:

Intro:

What we are starting with is a 1999.5 ALH tdi engine from a Jetta tdi that got crashed at 185k miles. I bought the whole car to get all of the swap parts in one swoop.





Electrical related:

The wire harness is being lightened and reduced on both the stock golf side and the engine management size. Basically the only wires we are concerned with in this thread run the engine only. So far what I have found this is only a total of around 6 fuses and three relays total!


Lower end:

The lower ends of the ALH block are much stiffer than an AHU block but not quite as sturdy as the pd130 and pd150 sister blocks and internals. Because of sourcing issues and the fact that I already had an ALH block it was a reasonable compromise to use this as a starting point of my buildup. The goal with the whole short block is to build something that will withstand any bolt on combination of parts that could be thrown at the engine itself. This will allow me to build the major portions of the bock and change out bolt on parts at will later. The parts I have chosen for the bottom end so far are as follows:

Forged lightened stock stroke crankshaft
Forged H rods designed for stock piston pins
81mm Oversized pistons
ARP rod bolts
ARP Main stud bolts
Girdle plate/ crank scraper
Total seal gapless piston rings
Modified OEM oil pan with baffles










These parts alone have lightened up the engine assembly a total of 10.5lbs and will drastically increase the strength over the stock assembly. And if you just did the math that opens up the system to become a 2.0L TDI engine. And on that note I basically just got everything in and will fill you guys in on more details of the machining work, coatings and other nitty gritty when they are done. I have a pile of parts sitting on my table right now and I am a kid in a candy store so I do need to go back to drooling over them with the calipers for a bit….

Upper end head assembly:

The head will have major port work done to it to increase airflow at higher rpms. I have also decided to go with a dual valve spring setup with titanium retainers to reduce any valve float we may be getting due to excessively high pressures. Overall the head is being built to handle higher RPMs and pressures. Head parts at this point are going to be the following:

a) PP performance camshaft (this may get changed out to any one of the other three cams on the market if I can get my hands on one with .5mm more lift throughout.)
b) Lightened Hydraulic lifters
c) Dual HD valve springs and light weight valve spring retainers
d) Stock intake valves will be used
e) Oversized swirl polished exhaust valves are in attempts to be made
f) The head will have drastic bits of porting done to it. (I do not think I will be doing this work myself).

So far here is a pretty parts picture for you to enjoy J



Ok so that’s it thus far. I will update you guys with more info here in a bit I have a lot of things that are being built and done at the same time. The build will also most likely go on for a while due to this being a part time project. So does anyone have any questions, comments or suggestions?

(Edited to have links)
Hi,
Could you tell where can I get those ti valve spring, retainers and oversized pistons, forge rods and where can I get my crank stroked?
 
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