Project: 2004 Passat TDI-Manual Swap, BSMD, And More!

imo000

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Location
Cambridge
TDI
2009 M-B ML320 Diesel & '05 Passat TDI Manual 5-Speed
I don't think this was caused by the hang up or the flywheel. Sounds to me you got two bad transmissions instead.
 

50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
I got a hold of the salvage yard that I got this last transmission from. They usually just have a standard 30 day warranty, but they agreed to work with me on this deal since I am a little over 60 days since purchase, and offered to sell me another one for $50!!! Kind of a pain to have to do this all again, but I won't complain about that deal!
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
I wish i had your access to v6 5 speeds. Ive seen about 5 come across the local cl since December. All the ones around here are autos!
 

50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
have you checked on car-part.com? That's where I've been finding most of mine. There are a lot of them in this area.
 

50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
Alrighty.....so a little update on this ball of madness....I kept milking the bad trans along for lack of time to replace it. The broken synco ring was starting to jam into other gears making it difficult to shift. Eventually it made it into a bad place in the trans and it exploded the gearset right out the front of the case. Since I was pulling it all apart anyhow, I wanted to replace that silly 6 puck ceramic disc with something a little less savage. Turns out, in my efforts to do this build on a very tight budget, the flywheel and pressure plate that I originally bought will not accept a spring hub disc because their center diameters are too small for a spring hub to fit inside of. That being said, the next best thing is going to an organic solid disc, so that's what I've done. I'm hoping that between the less aggressive disc and replacing the worn rubber shifter shaft joint with solid one and making sure the shifter is all aligned properly, I'll be good to go from here on in. I'm really looking forward to having the old pig back on the road after being over a month without it.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
Oil hammer posted a link to a good write up on adjusting these. On my 1st 5 speed conversion i pulled the shifter linkage off like a dummy then removed the shifter assembly.

Luckily for me i could still she the marks the bolt left in it so i could put it back together close but obviously not perfect. I guess i got lucky as i have not had any issues shifting gears.

Did my first hwy road trip with her yesterday. Speed on the hwy was 65 so i set cruise at 75. This was approx 2750 rpms. The liar mpg estimator (pretty close at overall mpg est) said i was getting 42mpg which is the best I've ever done in this car in the current mpg mode) was on the freeway 1hr each way. She's much louder with the egr delete. Sounds more like some of the old land cruisers i did diesel conversions on in the past rather than a "grandpa car" as my lovely gf likes to say. She drives an 07 saturn ion....how can she judge my car?
 

50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
Yep, I read through that write up and made sure mine is all set correctly. I finally got my car all back together over the weekend. That organic disc, even though it is a solid disc and solid flywheel is sooooo much better that that stupid ceramic 6 puck. Haha! I can actually take off in a sensible manner now. I'm really hoping this will be the end all to my problems. I really do want to get the ECU tuned though to get rid of the rev hang and get all of the ABS an TCS back in order.
 

50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
I have noticed too that the MPG estimator is not very accurate....usually 2-3mpg high compared to figuring it out manually. Is there a way to correct that on these cars?
 

d0u8l3m

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Location
Connecticut
TDI
B5.5 Passat
Not trying to be a dick, but genuinely curious, since I haven't seen this thread in a while.

You went through 3 transmissions a ton of downtime, and are probably over your original budget. Not to mention all the aggravation that I'm sure you went though doing all the work yourself.

Would it not have been worth it to wait and save up a bit for the proper parts, all conveniently shipped in a kit, that you could have installed once and be done with it?? While I know budget was your main motivator for going the route you did, I'm just wondering if you would change anything to get to the same or a different outcome.

Either way I hope your car is running up to your standards, and youre enjoying it. Mine has been amazing since converting/tuning it. Just don't get carried away with that new found fun lol
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
He took just as much risk with a used v6 tranny as he would a euro tranny. Seems most of these longitudinal 5 speed use the same bearing part numbers as well as synchros. The difference is in gearing. So one is not really any stronger than the other.

I wonder how good a warranty exchange from Europe or the UK is?

I did a near identical conversion but splurge on the 45 lbs flywheel. Really wish i had gotten a little less aggressive clutch as the fx300 is a little harsh for sipping my morning coffee in city traffic. Also did my tune where i think he's easing it into gears on a stock ecu.

I'm quite happy with my v6 tranny.
 

d0u8l3m

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Location
Connecticut
TDI
B5.5 Passat
He took just as much risk with a used v6 tranny as he would a euro tranny. Seems most of these longitudinal 5 speed use the same bearing part numbers as well as synchros. The difference is in gearing. So one is not really any stronger than the other.
I wonder how good a warranty exchange from Europe or the UK is?
I did a near identical conversion but splurge on the 45 lbs flywheel. Really wish i had gotten a little less aggressive clutch as the fx300 is a little harsh for sipping my morning coffee in city traffic. Also did my tune where i think he's easing it into gears on a stock ecu.
I'm quite happy with my v6 tranny.
To an extent I can agree with that, I haven't heard of any being bad from Frans, he must go through them pretty well to verify that they are in good shape (knock on wood for my DUK :rolleyes:)

I had to drive my car for a few days without a tune because malone was closed the week my car was done, In that state the rev hanging was a real PITA to shift smoothly (especially with me being a noob at driving stick at the time lol)

I also got a Sachs SRE clutch with a dual mass flywheel supplied from Frans, not sure of any part numbers, but its been holding my stage 2 perfectly. My buddy does complain that my clutch is pretty heavy though, he has a 2006 Jetta with a malone 1.5, his car was manual from the factory though :p

That's a good point about the transmissions using a lot of the same parts though, wasn't aware of that.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
My single mass 240mm flyweel and clutch will hold all the power my stage 2 will put out and much much more. My issue is that when cold the kevlar disk although sprung is not smooth. Going from tennis shoes to work boots to flip flops is also fun. The pedal feel is to me the same as the stock v6 vehicles I've been scrapping. I dont tear down transmissions before install. I make sure they shift smoothly into all the gears and examine fluid for excess shavings/metals. Ive yet ro buy a runner v6 donor car. Im sure frans uses a similar method as tearing into every used tranny would be cost prohibitive. You could spend your time so much more wisely like working out or editing/making memes for i funny to feature. I do know he goes through each 6 speed tranny as those have issues. The 5 speeds seem pretty resilient and built to withstand lots of power mods. There are however drivers like my little sister that can destroy anything with a steering wheel.

I spent lots of time trying to justify a euro 5 speed. I dont hwy commute a ton. Now that sailing season is here ill commute to my boat every weekend and the hour hwy drive one way at 2700ish rpms still nets incredible mpgs. The egr delete at that rpm let's you know she's a diesel.

I was trying to decide on either swapping my BHW into a small 4x4 or convert my passat to 5 speed for a while. Any yota jeep montero or trooper i considered swapping into would also do near 3000 at 75 mph and cost/options to regear vary from vehicle to vehicle. A sedan at 75mph 2750 rpms fits my needs
 
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50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
Not trying to be a dick, but genuinely curious, since I haven't seen this thread in a while.

You went through 3 transmissions a ton of downtime, and are probably over your original budget. Not to mention all the aggravation that I'm sure you went though doing all the work yourself.

Would it not have been worth it to wait and save up a bit for the proper parts, all conveniently shipped in a kit, that you could have installed once and be done with it?? While I know budget was your main motivator for going the route you did, I'm just wondering if you would change anything to get to the same or a different outcome.

Either way I hope your car is running up to your standards, and you're enjoying it. Mine has been amazing since converting/tuning it. Just don't get carried away with that new found fun lol
Perfectly fair question in light of all the nonsense. Haha! There's no two ways about it, someone who has a larger budget, the imported transmission, and flywheel and clutch either imported or from whitebread is definitely the way to go. For someone on a budget, I still think sourcing parts state side is a very viable option. As far as what I would change in light of my still tight budget, I would have not messed around with that original 6 puck solid flywheel/solid disc combo. That's good for racing, not for street use. I would have opted for one of the solid flywheel/sprung disc combos from the same company I did get this setup from. They actually have fantastic customer service and they really helped me out with getting a new pressure plate and solid organic disc to fit their flywheel. The other thing I would change is simply waiting until I could afford to get the ECU tuned. I think the rev hang coupled with that super aggressive disc was keeping the input shaft spinning a bit much even with the clutch disengaging properly which is what has been causing my transmission failures....that or simply just 2 bad transmissions in a row. Regardless, I'm now just being very careful of how I am shifting, being sure to let the revs come down first. So yes, after this experience, I would change a couple things to alleviate the down time and save some money on the deal. Surprisingly though, the added cost of all this madness has still not been anywhere near enough to add up to the cost of importing the parts as a kit. Haha! Now that everything seems sorted, and I'm sure it will be even better after tuning, I really enjoy this car. Compared to the 2004 Jetta TDI I was driving in the down time, this car rides so much better and has much nicer power delivery and more of it all together!
 

50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
Well..... the time has come. Another transmission with another broken 3rd gear sync ring. Time to spend the money I wish I had when I started this project. I'll talk to Frans about a transmission, Malone about tuning, and whitebread about a flywheel abd clutch set up. Anyone suggest anything different?

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PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
Im running a malone stage 2 from whitbread, fx300 and flyweel also from matt and the same dvz tranny as you. Still sub 10k on the swap but no issues with grinding of any gears. The DVZ is not more or less strong than any of the euro TDI transmissions (5 speeds). Not only do i run her pretty spirited daily, i also tow with her.

If you want to get into debate over more teeth=less meat= less strength with gears debate then we can split hairs but on stage 2 or less level all of them will be about the same in strength minus the po factor.

I still believe the rev hang and light flywheel are the culprit. The 4x4 guys have been putting heavier flywheels on gasser motors for ages to aid in shifting while under load (dual transfer cases add tons of drive train slop) and while im shifting at a simiar rpm to you my throttle has reduced to a vw engineers(or malone) suggested throttle position.

The proper gearing would rock on the freeway, but the euro tranny by itself isn't going to cure the issue.
 

50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
Yea, that tune and flywheel/clutch are my plan as well. I agree that the light flywheel and rev hang are the issues here too. I realize that the euro trans will not be stronger, but I'm at the point where I can now afford to do this all the right way instead of piecing it together on a budget, so I want to do this one last time. I figure I can justify spending the money on a euro trans since I'll be doing the good flywheel and tune and I shouldn't have to worry about damaging another transmission.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
Frans also sells a dual mass flyweel that SHOULD handle the torque of a stage 2 tune so you'll have a few options. Only needing the transmisson (no brackets, linkage or other parts) really brings down the cost.

The whitbread clutch is awesome after about 1500 miles. That break in was neck breaking.
 

50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
I think id rather have the whitebread set up.... seen to many failed dual mass flywheels and I want something better than "should" haha. I don't want to have to do this again any time soon.

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PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
Kevlar takes a a while to break in. It will chatter like mad. I have the fx300
 

50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
I can't imagine its any worse than the ceramic 6 puck I had at first. Haha!

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PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
Lol...very true. Once broken it its nice. Because it's a 240mm flyweel the pressure plate gives a stock-ish pedal feel. It's very smooth now. Only a little chatter when cold, once you go a mile or two she's ready to go.
 

50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
I placed the order on the whitbread flywheel and fx300 clutch kit. Very prompt service from him, easy to do business with, shipped out same day! In the process of ordering a DUK transmission from Frans. Hopefully if all goes well, I can have everything by next weekend!
 

50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
The order process on the transmission took a little longer than I hoped, mostly because of the time zone difference, so same day communication is limited. However, I completed the order for a DUK transmission today. Hope to have everything here by middle of next week now.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
Sweet dude. Let me know how you like it vs the dvz. Im still doing 1 hr one way trips every weekend at 3000 or so rpms, the car doesnt seem to mind.

Been looking at some suvs to put my extra bhw in, gearing on those with 32/33 inch tires will all be about 3000 rpms @ 70 mph.

Really want a diatsu rocky soft top but a discovery with an ax15/dana 300 rolling on cable locker 33/12.5s would also be sweet.
 

50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
Yea, will do. I'm sure it will be great. I'm interested to see how it will effect the fuel economy. What do you normally get with yours?

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d0u8l3m

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Location
Connecticut
TDI
B5.5 Passat
Yea, will do. I'm sure it will be great. I'm interested to see how it will effect the fuel economy. What do you normally get with yours?

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Glad to see you got a DUK with a nice clutch setup, let me know how you like that setup. I love the DMF and clutch I got from frans when I originally did mine, only comment I've gotten on it from a buddy of mine who drove it was that its fairly heavy compared to his stock 2006 Jetta.

If you can keep your foot out of it you'll be in the high 30s, low 40s if you maintain the speed limit =P

Even having fun with it I'm probably averaging around 35mpg, on all the twisty back roads here in CT.
 
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