Project: 2004 Passat TDI-Manual Swap, BSMD, And More!

50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
I've been a member on the forums here for quite a few years, but have been largely inactive due to having sold my 03 Jetta TDI a while back. But now I've rejoined the TDI community and I'm very excited to be back! I recently picked up a 2004 Passat TDI with 126k miles. Overall it seems to be a great base to start with. It's pretty clean with the exception of some light front damage from hitting a small deer, which will be repaired after all of the mechanical repairs and upgrades are completed. I picked it up to the tune of $800. Reason being, the transmission is giving some problems. When I got it, it would drive in reverse, but it acted like it was stuck in two gears when trying to go forwards. After reading the codes, I cleared them and now it will drive forwards. However, it shifts ok through 1st and 2nd, but it acts like it goes into neutral when it shifts to 3rd, then tries to slam into 3rd and fails. Rather than chase after the nonsense of diagnosing and repairing the auto trans, I am opting for a manual swap. I know the method I am taking about the manual swap will be frowned upon by some here, but it fits my budget and I think I will be satisfied with the end results. If not, I have the option to change things later. Rather than import components from a Euro TDI, I purchased a donor car to source my parts. It is a 2001 Passat V6 5-speed with 193k miles. This way I have most everything I need to complete the swap, and I only paid $300 for a running and driving car. I will be going with Malone Stage 2 Tuning and the Manual Swap tune. And I will be going with a single mass flywheel and heavy duty clutch for a 1.8T Passat. As for the BSM, there is no record of it or timing belt having been done, so I am doing a BSMD and timing belt kit as preventative maintenance to protect my investment. Beyond the mechanical spectrum, I will be repairing the light front end damage, and making some interior upgrades. For the interior, assuming components will work from the donor car (can anyone verify or deny that interior parts will work between B5 and B5.5 cars?) I will be removing the grey cloth interior and installing the black leather/wood grain interior from the donor car. Later down the road, I will upgrade to a nice set of wheels and possibly some mild suspension work. Overall I am very excited to get started and get this beast on the road! Thank you in advance to everyone who has posted in the past about your repairs and modifications, I and others here greatly appreciate your experience and knowledge! I will add pictures along the way as I get started!
 

gotsoot

Veteran Member
Joined
May 28, 2012
Location
Piedmont S.C.
TDI
`04 passat tdi
gasser tranny -UGH!

this will get u on the road,but u will not like the gearing that the gasser tranny has.you will be buzzing around wanting to shift ,but you will have run out of gears.good luck
 

d0u8l3m

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Location
Connecticut
TDI
B5.5 Passat
Since you have the donor car just import the transmission by itself. That shouldn't be too expensive tbh you should just do it right the first time imo. You already know the gearing is gonna blow, so why even deal with that?
 

50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
Well, correct me if I am wrong, but I thought I had read in a few older threads that with the gearing of the V6 gas trans, at 70MPH, RPMs would only be around 300 RPMs higher....I don't know if that will be too big of a deal to me if that is true. Can anyone say whether or not this will be the case? And for now, I will deal with that because I am in need of a good daily driver that will be reliable, and that will fit my budget. I have other things I would like to spend some money on as well so I am trying to keep this project as cost effective as possible.
 
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duteman2

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Location
Connecticut
TDI
'02 GOLF, '04 Passat Wagon, 5-speed, BSD, our 8th. and 9th. TDI's
Well, I just did the swap with a DUK, it's a Euro-diesel trans and even with that I feel like I'm searching for another gear. I'm used to the experience I got with my 6-gear Jetta wagon before VW bought it back. I think it's all the other gears that will make the car seem quirky to drive... All wrong ratios through the speed range. I have read a comment from someone who did it, though, and was living with it. You might just be one of those persons. What the hell, the price is right, that's for sure!
 

duteman2

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Location
Connecticut
TDI
'02 GOLF, '04 Passat Wagon, 5-speed, BSD, our 8th. and 9th. TDI's
Oh, and 300 RPM makes a HUGE difference at speed... For me at least. If you go with a Malone tune you will really feel the problems with the gas gear ratios, I mean, you'll have all that power and no gears to make use of it, IMHO. YMMV.
 
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50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
Well, I just did the swap with a DUK, it's a Euro-diesel trans and even with that I feel like I'm searching for another gear. I'm used to the experience I got with my 6-gear Jetta wagon before VW bought it back. I think it's all the other gears that will make the car seem quirky to drive... All wrong ratios through the speed range. I have read a comment from someone who did it, though, and was living with it. You might just be one of those persons. What the hell, the price is right, that's for sure!
Oh, and 300 RPM makes a HUGE difference at speed... For me at least. If you go with a Malone tune you will really feel the problems with the gas gear ratios, I mean, you'll have all that power and no gears to make use of it, IMHO. YMMV.
That makes sense, about having the wrong ratio on all the gears and having so much torque that all the gears feel useless. I guess time will tell if I am one of those persons....but like you said, the price is absolutely right! Worst case scenario, I can't stand the gearing and I import a transmission...the most I am out is my labor as the cost of the donor car will have been more than worth it for all of the supporting parts.
 

igiveup

Veteran Member
Joined
May 2, 2010
Location
Mississauga, Ontario
TDI
2005 Passat, 2009 Jetta
I always wondered how much difference going up a tire size (or 2) would make for the final drive ratio.
Try running a 205 65 16.
 

50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
That could possibly help offset the difference, but I'm not real fond of huge sidewalls....so unless I moved up to a larger rim diameter, that's not something I would consider. Can the ECU be tuned to still be accurate with a different tire diameter?
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2012 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2004 Audi TT R-line Conv 2011 BMW X5 35d
In 5th gear using a DVZ (V6 gasser gearbox) vs a FHN there is a ~13MPH difference at any given RPM. The DUK is about 11-12 MPH difference. Basically, 5th gear in the DVZ is 4th gear in the FHN. 6-7 years ago I started with the DVZ just to make sure everything worked like I thought it would before ordering a gear box from Frans.

I have played with tire sizes and it helps, but not enough to match the TDI box

Do what works for you and your budget. If you want the cruise to work you will have to provide the V6 gearbox ratios to a tuner. If you switch to a TDI box, you will have to change the ratios again to maintain the cruise.
 

Col Sanders

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Location
Illinois
TDI
97 B4 Green And it's Possessed 2001 Audi A4 AFN SWAP
Listen to all the folks that has did this swap! 6 speed gas trans.? Don't waste you time. Get a 5 speed TDI and be done with it. At least send Frans @ Dutch Auto Parts an email. He has them in stock at great prices. You're going to screw up all your hard work for the sake of a gas trans? Oh well, just my .02.
 

50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
In 5th gear using a DVZ (V6 gasser gearbox) vs a FHN there is a ~13MPH difference at any given RPM. The DUK is about 11-12 MPH difference. Basically, 5th gear in the DVZ is 4th gear in the FHN. 6-7 years ago I started with the DVZ just to make sure everything worked like I thought it would before ordering a gear box from Frans.

I have played with tire sizes and it helps, but not enough to match the TDI box

Do what works for you and your budget. If you want the cruise to work you will have to provide the V6 gearbox ratios to a tuner. If you switch to a TDI box, you will have to change the ratios again to maintain the cruise.
Thank you for the input. I will be certain to tell my tuner what trans I am using. Does anyone know the ratios off hand for a DVZ or know where i can get them from?

Listen to all the folks that has did this swap! 6 speed gas trans.? Don't waste you time. Get a 5 speed TDI and be done with it. At least send Frans @ Dutch Auto Parts an email. He has them in stock at great prices. You're going to screw up all your hard work for the sake of a gas trans? Oh well, just my .02.
The trans will not be a 6 speed, just a 5 speed from a V6 Passat. I don't really see it as a waste or my time and certainly not screwing up my hard work. At the very least, I see it as a potential learning experience to experience first hand how the V6 trans works with a TDI. Worst case scenario, I'm out a few extra hours of labor and eventually decide to purchase a Euro TDI trans. I sent Frans an email, so we will see, but unless its just a few hundred dollars, odds are I'll be sticking with my V6 trans for now simply because it fits my budget.
 

imo000

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Location
Cambridge
TDI
2009 M-B ML320 Diesel & '05 Passat TDI Manual 5-Speed
Just use the V6 transmission since you have it and be done with it. The difference is that it will rev like it was in a lower gear when driving on the highway. You can easily get used to it.
 

50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
I heard back from Frans. A 5 speed trans would be ~$417.85 shipped to me. He also asked if I needed a flywheel and clutch. Out of curiosity, I asked about the price. For a Sachs DMF and heavy duty clutch kit, it would be ~$807.82. As much as I would love to be able to make these purchases and have the "most ideal" setup, I am going to move forward with the V6 trans and SMF for a 1.8T. It would nearly double the manual swap budget to buy just the trans, and over triple the budget to get the trans and the DMF.
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2012 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2004 Audi TT R-line Conv 2011 BMW X5 35d
FWIW, if you do NOT put a tune on your ECU and leave it stock, you MAY get by with the 1.8t clutch, or MAYbe not. However, it definitely will not hold a stage 1 or 2 tune.
 

d0u8l3m

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Location
Connecticut
TDI
B5.5 Passat
You're budget is simply way too low for this type of project imo, as the saying goes you get what you pay for. Good luck.
 

50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
FWIW, if you do NOT put a tune on your ECU and leave it stock, you MAY get by with the 1.8t clutch, or MAYbe not. However, it definitely will not hold a stage 1 or 2 tune.
Well, I guess time will tell, but the clutch I am looking at is rated for 360 lbft of torque, so I would think it should be ok if I don't totally abuse it.

You're budget is simply way too low for this type of project imo, as the saying goes you get what you pay for. Good luck.
And again, time will tell....I have always lived on a shoestring budget, not by choice, but by force because of not having a high income. Yet I have always been successful at making it work and being able to have decent vehicles on that budget.
 

imo000

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Location
Cambridge
TDI
2009 M-B ML320 Diesel & '05 Passat TDI Manual 5-Speed
FWIW, if you do NOT put a tune on your ECU and leave it stock, you MAY get by with the 1.8t clutch, or MAYbe not. However, it definitely will not hold a stage 1 or 2 tune.
Mine is a single mass clutch kit from a 1.8T and is holding just fine with a 1.5 tune. The dual mass 1.8t flywheel was another story.
 

imo000

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Location
Cambridge
TDI
2009 M-B ML320 Diesel & '05 Passat TDI Manual 5-Speed
You're budget is simply way too low for this type of project imo, as the saying goes you get what you pay for. Good luck.

Not really. Just because you paid a crapload of money for your swap, doesn't mean anything. Lack of money can be a great motivator to to make things work. I did mine swap for $1600 CDN with a FHN gearbox bought locally and that included the tune. If I had a donor V6 manual Passat, I would have used that and did it for way less than $1600.
 

50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
Mine is a single mass clutch kit from a 1.8T and is holding just fine with a 1.5 tune. The dual mass 1.8t flywheel was another story.
Not really. Just because you paid a crapload of money for your swap, doesn't mean anything. Lack of money can be a great motivator to to make things work. I did mine swap for $1600 CDN with a FHN gearbox bought locally and that included the tune. If I had a donor V6 manual Passat, I would have used that and did it for way less than $1600.
Thank you, my fine sir! Finally something positive from someone who supports the grassroots community! Strict budget is one of the best motivators for innovation! My 2000 s10 is a perfect example of such. Sure, it's not much to look at on the outside, but its function is very high. I compete in autocross against cars that are 10s of thousands to be bought and have thousands of dollars worth of work into them, and I beat many of them with my sub $3k truck....because I know how to stretch a dollar as far as it will go.

http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f30/project-autocross-s10-765866/
 

50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
I am finally getting some time to work on the Passat. I work 75+ hours a week between two jobs right now, so time is a very hot commodity for me. Haha! I was able to get the front end removed and got the timing covers off last week on the one free night I had. I am planning on being able to work on it Friday night, and all day Saturday and Sunday. If all goes well, I'm hoping to have it back on the ground and ready to rip by end of day Sunday.
 

50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
Also, does anyone know where I can find the gear ratios for the DVZ transmission? I want to have the correct info when I go to get the tune done.
 

50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
Well, my weekend didn't go as planned. We had some wicked storms here and I spent most of Saturday cleaning up a fallen tree at my house. I did get some time to work on the car though. I got everything removed from the donor car and got the subframe and transmission removed as well as the balance shaft removed and new oil pump installed. The new goal now is to complete this weekend. Hopefully all goes well! The speculation is that the shifting problems the car was having were because of a leaky sunroof letting water in and drowning the TCM. That being said, I found out when I pulled the trans, that it already has a remanufactured trans in it. If I can find a shop to run it on a transmission dyno and verify that it is in good condition, it should be worth a bit of money to sell, shouldn't it?
 

50mpgtdi

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Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
Well, the last two weeks have provided enough time for me to get the swap completed! First impressions are this....vibration at idle is slightly more than stock with the BSM delete and the light weight single mass flywheel, but same as stock once off idle. Taking off with the light clutch requires a little bit more fineness, but is very manageable and works very well. I currently have not done any tuning, for the trans swap or the engine but it works surprisingly well the way that it is. ABS and traction control lights are on as expected, but not as expected, the cruise control actually works properly and there are no extra warnings in the information center of the dash. Also as we all already knew, the gearing is not ideal, but it is ok for now considering the type of driving I do. at 75 mph on the highway it is running right at 3000rpm. So far I am very happy with how things have turned out. I will be taking it on a longer trip this weekend, should be around 400 miles. I'll report back after that to let everyone know how it goes! If anyone has any questions for me at all, feel free to send me a PM or ask away here on the thread.
 

vwztips

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2012 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2004 Audi TT R-line Conv 2011 BMW X5 35d
Yes cruise works. However, if you did not hook up the clutch cruise switch, the engine will take off if when rising cruise you push in the clutch pedal.
 
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