Power Steering to Manual Steering

[puntmeister]

Anybody have any experience with the EA Engineering (something like that) power steering delete kit?

I am an MPG freak, but my main desire to delete the power steering is that I really prefer manual steering.

As part of the kit, they offer a rebuilt pump, which removes the pumping mechanisms, but keeps the rest intact - one question I have is, if you remove the pumping mechanism inside the pump, is it even necessary to remove any of the lines?

Wouldn't that alone delete the power steering, and keep the loop intact (the kit mainly consists of a loop for the two connections at the rack)?

 

[Ghastly]

http://www.eaaengineering.com/steering-conversion-kits-lines/steering-de-power-conversion-kit-mk4/

 

[puntmeister]

Yeah, that's exactly the kit I was thinking of. So, anybody try it?

 

[oilhammer]

Power steering without assist isn't the same as no power steering. Meaning, the steering gear ratio and angle of the tie rods, etc. is specific for cars with assisted steering.

So while you may think you prefer manual steering, it will be pretty difficult to drive THAT car without it, since that was not what it was intended to have.

I think you best leave that to race cars and wannabe racers. Besides, the power loss of the vane pump is hardly anything driving down the road, it is only loaded (in parking lots, etc.) that it becomes a load, and your TDI engine barely notices anyways.

 

[deejaaa]

i was looking into this myself but from what i've read on ecomodder, there is just 1-2% improvement. i got 59 mpg on my last fill up 2 days ago so 1-2% wouldn't be that much and would take a long time to recoupe the cost. i am up to $250.00 saved over EPA ratings but i won't spend my savings on manual steering.

 

[Perfectreign]

So while you may think you prefer manual steering, it will be pretty difficult to drive THAT car without it, since that was not what it was intended to have.

FWIW, my '87 Nissan pickup didn't have power steering. Even as a 6'4" pretty strong guy, that thing was hard to maneuver. I cannot fathom not having it again.

 

[Genesis]

What oilhammer said.

I've owned a couple of no-power-steering cars in my years. The ratios, steering geometry and other factors are very different between a car with no power steering and one with INOPERATIVE power steering.

You will NOT like the steering operation without the power assist -- at all.

For a car you're going to drive on the street leave it alone.

 

[puntmeister]

deejaa,

How are you getting 59mpg?

The best I ever got was 60mpg - but that was driving across the country, on a stretch where I drove on perfectly flat highways, 55mph, no stop/starting, eco-tread tires, no a/c - basically, ideal conditions for mpg.

I could see where modifying timing might get a little better mpg (my understanding is the stock timing results in a 4% hit from theoretical ideal power setting).

Beyond that, I live/drive in Mesa, AZ - near ideal conditions - long, flat, straight roads, with minimal/distant stop lights, and light traffic. With no a/c, I can average about 52mpg - and that is driving for mpg (gliding to red lights and/or engine breaking, mild acceleration, 55mpg max highway speeds, low resistance tires).

I just don't see what else could be done to improve mpg.

 

[puntmeister]

oilhammer et all,

Yeah, I do understand the issue of manual steering versus disconnected power steering - which is why I'm trying to find people who have done this, and could offer their experiences.

Due to this exact issue, I am loathe to just implement it, without some objective analysis first.

That said, the modification really isn't very expensive, and is easily reversible.

 

[geostar]

I purchased a beat up mk4 gasser and the previous owner did not use the Pentosin mineral oil and blew out the seals in the rack. I ran the system dry, no power assist, for a few months while I located a used rack.
Travelling at speed was ok, but in parking situations a lot of effort is required. So we are men, no big deal. But, I worried about the extra stress placed on the steering linkage between the steering wheel and the rack. If the VW engineers did their job correctly, they would not have sized the linkage for this extra load. I'm not sure, but I suspect the bushing or bearing may fail over time. Do you know anyone who has deleted power assist for an extended time, with many miles? The MK4 has a nice feel even with the assist. I like it better than my MK5 with an electric rack. IMO, find another way to save power. If you avoid parking lots, and limit quick steering maneuvers, that should help.

 

[T-Roy]

I've installed and used their kit on my MK2 Jetta ECOdiesel when I deleted my AC and PS.

Even on the lighter MK2, it is downright a CHORE to turn the wheel if you aren't moving.
As soon as you are moving though it isn't much of a problem, but man if you have to do a 3-point turn it is TOUGH to turn the wheel lock to lock sitting still. I can only fathom it being worse on a MK4.

I had no idea they even made this kit for the MK4's, I would definitely NOT recommend it for a MK4 unless you are really wanting a hard time turning the wheel any time you are not moving.

 

[burpod]

i like the manual steering i have in my mk1, although parking lots are a little bit annoying. i've driven my mk4 jetta briefly without PS and it is a real bear. i'm all for liking manual steering, but the mk4 is simply NOT the car to do it with... mk1 or or mk2 at the heaviest.

 

[FlyTDI Guy]

Drive and get an upper body workout at the same time... has the makings for a new late-nite commercial. I got to drive without the aid of PS after I threw my alt. pulley. I was pretty shocked at the effort involved in just turning into my driveway, etc. Not safe really. Amazing amount of effort involved if turning from a dead stop.

 

[puntmeister]

Thanks everyone for sharing the experiences.

I live in an area where the need for parallel parking is almost nil, so that alone doesn't necessarily kill the idea for me (I agree power steering comes in real handy for parallel parking). I drove a car once that had manual steering - which I loved - except when maneuvering into tight parellel parking spots....

If I were just in it for the MPG boost (very minimal), I wouldn't bother. It is truly because I generally prefer manual steering. But, I do get what everyone is saying - it doesn't work so hot with the MKIV, given its a heavy car, and the ratios are set tightly for power steering.

All that said - anybody ever been inside one of the steering pumps? I wonder if it would be remotely feasible to "weaken" the power assist by altering the impeller in some way.

I know I'm going a bit over-board, as the power assist is already fairly weak, relative to other cars (just got my wife a used Volvo S80 - its like stearing a boat). I would just like it a bit weaker - to the point where its on par with light true-manual cars.

 

[Mike_04GolfTDI]

Was manual steering ever an option on these cars, in some other market? Maybe you could replace the rack and everything.

For example, I had a 1985 BMW 323i, which was a European grey market import. It had manual steering, which was not available in the North American market.

Maybe manual steering was an option for the MKIV Jetta in South America, China, Europe, etc...

 

[burpod]

no matter what you do, it will still be an mk4 - a big heavy boat i think you're too hung up on the power steering. if you want a lighter car that handles AWESOME and is a total BLAST to drive, try a nicely setup mk1-mk3 with a hopped up tdi in it. even with power steering, you really feel complete control and "one" with the road even the mk3 is surprisingly nimble with the right suspension

 

[Genesis]

Yeah....

I had the accessory drive idler pulley bolt shear on me a number of years ago -- instant delete on the power steering (along with AC and Alternator!) -- while an hour or so from the house.

It wasn't impossible to drive it home by any means, but it also wasn't a lot of fun.

 

[burpod]

Yeah....

I had the accessory drive idler pulley bolt shear on me a number of years ago -- instant delete on the power steering (along with AC and Alternator!) -- while an hour or so from the house.

It wasn't impossible to drive it home by any means, but it also wasn't a lot of fun.

what happened to me was a little scary. harmonic balancer bolts sheared off while romping it on the highway. heard a huge thunk-THUNK-THUNK! whap! whap! and then no power steering, alternator, ac... no idea why that happened, none of that stuff had been touched since the factory (car had maybe 80k on it at the time). so i ended up driving around here and there for a bit with no power steering until i fixed it. not so fun

 

[Seatman]

I drove around with a shorter belt and no power steering due to a bad rack, it's ok apart from corners rolleyes, if you accelerate at all you get hellish torque steer and really have to fight it sometimes.
You'd really need to alter the gearing in the rack for it to be a safer option on the road. You get less feeling back too from the road, sounds wrong but it's true enough, steerings just to heavy.

Anyway just my experience.

 

[puntmeister]

I'm getting no inspiration whatsoever to proceed with altering my steering

To the idea of changing out the rack to one designed for manual: not sure if the car ever came as manual-stock anywhere - no doubt that would be the correct way to convert to manual steering, but it would also cost beyond what I'm willing to pay for a very minor alteration.

To the comment that the MKIV is a boat: lol! I recently was on the hunt for a used car for my wife - I drove some real boats. Old Mercedes diesels, for example (got a lot of hate, but I insist they drive like Cadillacs). Ended up with a 2002 Volvo S80 - also a boat, as far as I am concerned.

I searched for an older VW diesel (wasn't willing to pay up for a more recent VW diesel, and she insisted on automatic). I couldn't find any pre-2002 VW diesel automatics for sale (and the few pre-2002 manuals were all in pretty rough shape).

I do respect the fact that the ALH seems to get a good bit better MPG than my BEW.

Despite all the negativity surrounding the BEW PD's, I gotta say I love it. But, I was lucky - I bought it used, 164,000 miles - I knew zip about the oil/camshaft issue. Turns out, however, previous owners kept it meticulous.

 

[burpod]

well, compared to an mk1-mk3, the mk4 is a boat of course, it is a sports car compared to others don't get me wrong, i still do like my mk4s (although one is now in pieces because i stole parts to put in my mk3 etc). but the car i like driving the most is my mk1 i swapped a tdi into, big turbo etc ~170hp. i've driven it from ma to mn, and ma to fl. i could drive it all day long and never get bored.

also, i do like the BEW (i have two of them), but i've had to replace both camshafts (90k and 110k), and i also replaced one in my dads car (160k). my cars i both owned since new and only got vw 505.01 cert oil. even had the bypass filter since 40k. all definitely were worn. no chamfer left, a few lifters looked in pretty bad shape. if you haven't looked at yours, i highly recommend you do.. but it is a great driving engine. i had a couple tanks of 63mpg in my 05 if i just kept the speed to ~65 or so, and it wasn't even all highway, and was tuned with rc3 at the time and was a blast to drive... before i got the mk1 habit... now, it's hard to go back to the mk4 with less power and 800lbs heavier :/

 

[Westro]

I had my accessory belt off due to a bad AC compressor for a couple days.

I got better mileage due to no PS pump, AC and Altinator. But I wouldn't say it was fun. Car was all over in the lane due to no power Steering. Its doable but it was no fun.

 

[deejaaa]

deejaa,

How are you getting 59mpg?
...........
I just don't see what else could be done to improve mpg.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/fuel-economy-mpg-modifications.php

http://ecomodder.com/forum/EM-hypermiling-driving-tips-ecodriving.php

 

[Gardell]

power steering to manual

I had a VW quantum Syncro (87?) that started leaking fluid at the steering rack, the car was old enough there was no way it was getting a new (or even used one). When the fluid level dropped it became noisy and very difficult to steer. On a hunch I drained all the fluid out of the rack and disconnected the pump (it was on a separate V belt if I remember correctly). It became much easier to steer without the fluid. Steering was noticeably harder only if the vehicle completely stopped, just creep forward or back a little and it was pretty easy. We drove it that way for a copula of more years before the body completely rusted off.

I am in a similar situation with a 2000 Jetta, in the process of replacing the power steering hose, the banjo bolt got cross threaded on the rack. I may try an adhesive thread repair kit but if that does not work, I am thinking of draining the fluid from the system. I will probably run a hose from the outlet of the pump back to the tank so the pump it is not running dry and noisy. If neither of these work it may be off to the junk yard. Any other suggestions?