Post your Federal Trade Commission Comments Here

coolbreeze

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Location
Troutman NC
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE DSG - 2016 Tig SE for the wifey
In the interest of awareness to encourage members to speak their mind and share their thoughts with the FTC I have started a thread to list your comments made to the FTC along with the adress to send it.

By sharing your comments it can help others to understand where they stand on the issue. It will also save time because you can copy and past ideas you align with.

This should not be a thread to tear aparts ones OWN thoughts and ideas, but a common space to collect comments to share and help promote being involved in speaking YOUR mind.

Although the settlement deal regarding Volkswagen cheating on diesel emissions standards is mostly inked, the details are still being worked out.

A one-month public comment period allows anyone with an opinion on the settlement to make his or her voice heard.

The 225-page deal between VW, the Department of Justice, the Environmental Protection Agency, the Federal Trade Commission, and the state of California, was announced June 28 in San Francisco. (Details of the VW Dieselgate settlement can be found here.)

If you want to submit a comment, here are the contact details:

By email: pubcomment-ees.enrd@usdoj.gov.

By mail: Assistant Attorney General, U.S. DOJ—ENRD, P.O. Box 7611, Washington, D.C. 20044-7611.

All comments must be submitted by Aug. 6.

For more information, you can also see the full document of the Federal Register regarding the Volkswagen settlement as well as the legal filings from the U.S. District Court for the case.
By email to DOJ........................ pubcomment-ees.enrd@usdoj.gov.
By mail............................. Assistant Attorney General,
U.S. DOJ--ENRD, P.O. Box 7611,
Washington, D.C. 20044-7611.

YOU CAN TITLE IT : re: Volkswagen ``Clean Diesel'' Marketing, Sales Practices, and Products Liability Litigation, Case No: MDL No. 2672 CRB (JSC), and D.J. Ref. No. 90-5-2- 1-11386

Here is my resent email:

To whom it may concern;

I would like to make a public comment on the Clean Diesel case against VW. I have 3 concerns that I believe are not being addressed.

1.) I am selling my car to VW for misrepresenting its product. I find it is in VW's best interest to buy my TDI at clean trade rather than private party. I do not see why we are being asked to lose that value when we are forced to sell our cars back or continue to pollute the environment. If there was going to be a fix for the Generation 1 cars I might feel differently. VW should pay clean Private party to be fair.

2) I find it unfair that those who purchased rebuilt vehicles are not going to be compensated if that vehicle was titled salvaged title before Sept 18. Rebuilt titled cars are fantastic vehicles when reconstructed correctly and many people find value in buying properly rebuilt vehicles for many reason including, value, and environmentally they make sense rather than wasting those resources. Why are they not included in the program if purchased prior to June 28th. Many of those owners did not even know about the upcoming issues with VW and simply wanted an affordable high MPG car. If Someone purchased a clean title car after Sept 18th they get compensated, but another individual purchases a rebuilt title and is treated differently. VW needs to buy back as many TDI's as they can and Rebuilt’s Titles and their owners should be treated equally.

3) Mileage adjustment. People who buy TDI's are long distance , highway mileage drivers. If we where city drivers we would buy a Prius or a Volt. TDI owners need good highway MPG and long lasting Diesel engines to put many miles on them. The mileage calculator in my opinion should not penalize us for TDI owners using their cars as intended. The average TDI owner puts much more than 12500 miles a year.
 
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325_Guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2011
Location
West Central Texas
TDI
MkV Jetta
A year ago, I was involved in an accident with a 2013 TDI Jetta. I feel I am entitled to additional compensation since legally, that Jetta should have never been on the road to begin with and had VW not sold that car, the accident would have never happened.

I breathe air. The dirty diesels have taken years off of my life and I demand redress for myself, my children, and any future children I may or may not have.
 

wilcharl

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2010
Location
Northern Virginia
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI BOUGHT BACK 23 NOV 16. Now owner of 2016 Jeep Cherokee
Here is mine.. Format got messed up some in the cut-paste... Its my thoughts for whatever they are worth

This letter is in response to the proposed settlement for Volkswagen diesel owners. I am writing to provide my feedback and concerns with the settlement as presented. As a whole, I do not object to the settlement, and feel the structure and timeframes are realistic and fair. I do have objections to the methodology used to determine the buyback amount. As a Volkswagen owner, the settlement is structured so that it is favorable for me to sell my car back rather than wait for POSSIBLE fix. Though technically I am not being forced, I am essentially being driven to have my car bought back. The proposed settlement is using a “Trade-in” value plus twenty percent. The problem with this is that amount does not capture the cost to purchase a replacement vehicle. To support this, the below shows the price difference between RETAIL (replacement cost) and TRADE value (the amount used in the settlement)

ALL DATA TAKEN FROM NADAGUIDES.COM 06/30/2016 *Gas option used due to skewing of Diesel Values

Jetta Gas 2.0L Turbo
$6675.00 TRADE IN $9125.00 RETAIL 36% DIFFERENCE


Jetta Wagen 5 cyl
$7150.00 TRADE IN $9700.00 RETAIL 35% DIFFERENCE


Golf 4 door 5 cyl
$6025.00 TRADE IN $8200.00 RETAIL 36% DIFFERENCE


As you can see from the above the average difference between “Clean Trade In” and the Retail price is not 20% as used by the settlement but around 35%. This shortchanges Volkswagen owners a considerable amount of money.


Using my vehicle as an example, a 2010 Jetta TDI Sedan, my buyback amount is 14027. Subtract from that number $2986.73 (the amount of owner compensation) and you get $11,040.27. This would be 120% of the NADA clean value. This means the NADA clean value for my vehicle used was $9200.00. Using the more realistic 35% difference between retail and trade-in, my total compensation should be $15,406 a difference $1,379 dollars.


The second issue I have with the proposed settlement is once my vehicle is bought back, I am now without a vehicle and I have to purchase a replacement vehicle. A lot of fees come with purchasing a replacement vehicle such as the traditional tax tag & title, vehicle dealer processing fees etc. (all in the fine print of dealership ads)This creates a tax liability for me as I have to pay sales tax on the new vehicle. In addition I have to pay the dealerships processing fee. As a resident of Virginia, this fee averages $400 dollar. Volkswagen is not offering compensation for the sales tax that would be needed to be paid on the new vehicle purchase or the dealership fees. Using my vehicle as an example, and the replacement cost value, Sales Tax is $631.00.Add to that the dealership fees and there is an additional $1000.00 that owners are not being compensated for.


Here you can see how I am being shortchanged on my 2010 Jetta TDI.

Difference between “Clean Trade in” and Retail:$1,389.00
Virginia Sales Tax$631.00
Dealer Fees $400.00
Total difference $2420.00

I propose that the final settlement be based on a “Retail” replacement value and that it includes compensation for sales tax (if applicable) and dealer processing fees. This buyback situation is not unlike what the insurance industry deals with on a daily basis for the total loss of a vehicle. Insurance companies do NOT provide the “trade-in” value. They use what is referred to as the “Actual Cash Value” (ACV) for a vehicle AND they include taxes / fees.


Below are excerpts from the three largest auto insurers on how vehicle value is calculated for a total loss.


State Farm “We'll pay to repair, replace, or furnish the agreed upon actual cash value of your property, subject to the terms and conditions of your policy”
Berkshire Hathaway (GEICO) “Pay the actual cash value of the vehicle (plus applicable state fees and taxes) less any deductible.”
Allstate: “Sometimes, it might cost less to replace your car than to repair it. In that case, many policies will pay the actual cash value. Determining the cash value of your car will depend on its condition, prior damage and local market pricing.”


As you can see, the insurance industry, experts in buying vehicles back, use ACV and include compensation for taxes and fees to make their policyholders whole again.
As Volkswagen owners, we have been troubled by the event s that have drug out over the past year. We were lied to and given false information at the time of purchase, and during our ownership thru countless commercials advertising a clean product with a “high resell value” We need made whole.


The proposed settlement is a good start to making owners whole but fails to completely address the compensation that is due.

I concur with the final settlement being approved with the “Clean Trade-in” value being changed to the “Clean Retail” amount or Volkswagen use Actual Cash Value (ACV) like the auto insurance industry does. In addition, Volkswagen should compensate owners for sales taxes and fees that they will incur as part of making them whole.





Respectfully,
 

coolbreeze

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Location
Troutman NC
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE DSG - 2016 Tig SE for the wifey
Thank You for Your Contribution.

Here is mine.. Format got messed up some in the cut-paste... Its my thoughts for whatever they are worth

This letter is in response to the proposed settlement for Volkswagen diesel owners. I am writing to provide my feedback and concerns with the settlement as presented. As a whole, I do not object to the settlement, and feel the structure and timeframes are realistic and fair. I do have objections to the methodology used to determine the buyback amount. As a Volkswagen owner, the settlement is structured so that it is favorable for me to sell my car back rather than wait for POSSIBLE fix. Though technically I am not being forced, I am essentially being driven to have my car bought back. The proposed settlement is using a “Trade-in” value plus twenty percent. The problem with this is that amount does not capture the cost to purchase a replacement vehicle. To support this, the below shows the price difference between RETAIL (replacement cost) and TRADE value (the amount used in the settlement)

ALL DATA TAKEN FROM NADAGUIDES.COM 06/30/2016 *Gas option used due to skewing of Diesel Values

Jetta Gas 2.0L Turbo
$6675.00 TRADE IN $9125.00 RETAIL 36% DIFFERENCE


Jetta Wagen 5 cyl
$7150.00 TRADE IN $9700.00 RETAIL 35% DIFFERENCE


Golf 4 door 5 cyl
$6025.00 TRADE IN $8200.00 RETAIL 36% DIFFERENCE


As you can see from the above the average difference between “Clean Trade In” and the Retail price is not 20% as used by the settlement but around 35%. This shortchanges Volkswagen owners a considerable amount of money.


Using my vehicle as an example, a 2010 Jetta TDI Sedan, my buyback amount is 14027. Subtract from that number $2986.73 (the amount of owner compensation) and you get $11,040.27. This would be 120% of the NADA clean value. This means the NADA clean value for my vehicle used was $9200.00. Using the more realistic 35% difference between retail and trade-in, my total compensation should be $15,406 a difference $1,379 dollars.


The second issue I have with the proposed settlement is once my vehicle is bought back, I am now without a vehicle and I have to purchase a replacement vehicle. A lot of fees come with purchasing a replacement vehicle such as the traditional tax tag & title, vehicle dealer processing fees etc. (all in the fine print of dealership ads)This creates a tax liability for me as I have to pay sales tax on the new vehicle. In addition I have to pay the dealerships processing fee. As a resident of Virginia, this fee averages $400 dollar. Volkswagen is not offering compensation for the sales tax that would be needed to be paid on the new vehicle purchase or the dealership fees. Using my vehicle as an example, and the replacement cost value, Sales Tax is $631.00.Add to that the dealership fees and there is an additional $1000.00 that owners are not being compensated for.


Here you can see how I am being shortchanged on my 2010 Jetta TDI.

Difference between “Clean Trade in” and Retail:$1,389.00
Virginia Sales Tax$631.00
Dealer Fees $400.00
Total difference $2420.00

I propose that the final settlement be based on a “Retail” replacement value and that it includes compensation for sales tax (if applicable) and dealer processing fees. This buyback situation is not unlike what the insurance industry deals with on a daily basis for the total loss of a vehicle. Insurance companies do NOT provide the “trade-in” value. They use what is referred to as the “Actual Cash Value” (ACV) for a vehicle AND they include taxes / fees.


Below are excerpts from the three largest auto insurers on how vehicle value is calculated for a total loss.


State Farm “We'll pay to repair, replace, or furnish the agreed upon actual cash value of your property, subject to the terms and conditions of your policy”
Berkshire Hathaway (GEICO) “Pay the actual cash value of the vehicle (plus applicable state fees and taxes) less any deductible.”
Allstate: “Sometimes, it might cost less to replace your car than to repair it. In that case, many policies will pay the actual cash value. Determining the cash value of your car will depend on its condition, prior damage and local market pricing.”


As you can see, the insurance industry, experts in buying vehicles back, use ACV and include compensation for taxes and fees to make their policyholders whole again.
As Volkswagen owners, we have been troubled by the event s that have drug out over the past year. We were lied to and given false information at the time of purchase, and during our ownership thru countless commercials advertising a clean product with a “high resell value” We need made whole.


The proposed settlement is a good start to making owners whole but fails to completely address the compensation that is due.

I concur with the final settlement being approved with the “Clean Trade-in” value being changed to the “Clean Retail” amount or Volkswagen use Actual Cash Value (ACV) like the auto insurance industry does. In addition, Volkswagen should compensate owners for sales taxes and fees that they will incur as part of making them whole.





Respectfully,
Really well thought out and helpful for all of us, including Threeshot223.
 

sierra3

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Location
Reno, NV
TDI
'12 Passat TDI SE / '13 Passat TDI SE
Both comment letters are quite good. In the two similar points made, I wish something similar to the below could be made.
1) There were ZERO damages to TDI owners until this settlement agreement. The settlement itself cause the damages.
2) 'trade in value'. We can sell our cars to any dealer at any time for 'trade in value'. How many dealers would turn down someone who drove onto their lot and said "I will sell my car to you right now at 'trade in value'. Pure profit for the dealer...and they will mark up these cars 35%.
 

DanB36

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2003
Location
Savannah, GA
TDI
2014 Q5 Prestige TDI, Monsoon Gray
1) There were ZERO damages to TDI owners until this settlement agreement. The settlement itself cause the damages.
How do you figure that the settlement causes harm to TDI owners? This scandal certainly caused harm to those who owned affected TDIs before 9/17, as their values dropped rather sharply.
 

DanB36

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2003
Location
Savannah, GA
TDI
2014 Q5 Prestige TDI, Monsoon Gray
Is this thread about comments to the FTC, or to the DOJ? The title says FTC, but the addresses you give are for the DOJ.
 

sierra3

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 26, 2012
Location
Reno, NV
TDI
'12 Passat TDI SE / '13 Passat TDI SE
How do you figure that the settlement causes harm to TDI owners? This scandal certainly caused harm to those who owned affected TDIs before 9/17, as their values dropped rather sharply.
Probably a bad way to word it. If VW hadn't knowingly added a cheat device...we would all be happily driving our cars and we wouldn't even be discussing anything except how to fix an adblue heater or what tires someone likes.

There is very little evidence to support any claims of damages until someone puts a price on the car...and the settlement does that. VW, the media, the government all feel that trade-in + 20% (which is almost exactly the amount of the devaluation) gets everyone back to pre-scandal values, so it must be a good settlement.

However, the owners are left with either a 'different' car (which may in fact devalue it further), or no car, losing out on lost 'new car' fees (profit, taxes, title, doc fees, high 2 year depreciation, and dealer add-ons). These costs spread over 8-10 years are probably reasonable....spread over 1 to 3, they are not.

Like many others feel, the mileage adjustment only helps VW because they are paying less for cars with high mileage, and more for very low mileage cars. However, all of these mileage values are based on an average for all makes/models of cars and all types of owners. TDI owners are just a small percentage of a very large ecosystem...and 'average miles' for a Jeep,Suburu, Chevy owner does not compare equally to TDI owners. A low mileage TDI is worth more than a comparable Chevy Impala, Ford Fusion, or even the comparable VW product, because it was designed to last longer.
 

mjLyco

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Location
NJ
TDI
2010 Golf 2-Door TDI DSG
1) There were ZERO damages to TDI owners until this settlement agreement. The settlement itself cause the damages.
I'll explain the damages as I see them.
I purchased a car that did XYZ (power, fuel efficiency, "green") among other things. The car I have is not "green" because of systemic fraud. To bring the car into compliance, the car must be bought back or fixed. VW benefited from selling a car illegally. The damages are the costs associated with making the car have the same power, fuel efficiency, and "green" status. Since that is impossible, the damages should be the full purchase price. The amount that VW benefited from selling a car illegally.

That said... here's my letter. It's inside of this thread looking for feedback as well.

I object to the settlement proposed for the case of VOLKSWAGEN “CLEAN DIESEL” MARKETING, SALES PRACTICES, AND PRODUCTS LIABILITY LITIGATION, MDL No. 2672 CRB (JSC).

Under the proposed settlement, as an original owner, I have the options of:

1. Having my vehicle brought into EPA compliance through some fix that has yet to be determined and receive a lump sum settlement payment.
2. Sell my vehicle to Volkswagen for NADA Clean trade value plus 20% plus $2983.73 plus a mileage modifier that may be negative or positive.
3. Opt out of the proposed settlement.

Option 1 is not a viable option or the following reasons:
I. Details of the fix are not yet known. How can an owner make a reasonable decision to join or opt out of a settlement if the terms of the settlement are unknown. There may be safety, longevity, comfort, drivability, resell-ability, or other consequences to a fix that are still unknown at this time.

II. By Volkswagen’s own testimony, any fix would reduce power and fuel efficiency. No amount of money turns a vehicle modified in this way back into the car that we paid for in good faith.

Option 2 is an unfair judgement for the following reasons:
I. Clean retail value and not clean trade value should be used for compensating owners.
a. We are not trading in the vehicle but rather are selling it back as a retail transaction.
b. In my state of NJ and others, there are tax savings related to trade ins.
c. There is precedent (e.g. Toyota’s buyback of Tacoma trucks) with relation to using retail values instead of trade in values.
d. Using retail values would remove any tax ambiguity from state to state.

II. Not all options are listed in NADA values.
a. Using a 2010 Golf as an example, there is no listing for the cold weather package or HID headlamps.

III. The mileage modifier should be thrown out.
a. The number of miles that we drove our cars have no bearing on the initial fraud perpetrated by Volkswagen.
b. Having money taken off of the settlement because you drove the vehicle further than average is contrary to the nature of the fraud. The more miles you drove the car, the more you polluted the air where you live, work, and shop.
c. The mileage I put on my car does not reduce the damages. The benefit of the bargain is greater the more miles we drive because Volkswagen can sell more parts for maintenance and repairs.

IV. The penalty award for fraud (20% plus $2983.73) should be simplified.
a. Adding an arbitrary dollar amount plus 20% may help owners of older vehicles, but hinders owners of newer vehicles who see a higher initial drop in value.
b. All owners should get the same compensation for the fraud perpetrated. The year your vehicle was manufactured has no bearing on the fraud and should have no bearing on compensation.

V. Taxes and fees are not included in the buyback amount.
a. A buyback would result in purchasing a vehicle replacement. New taxes and fees would be assessed. Owners who would not have other whys parted with their vehicles would be stuck with an additional tax and fee burden though no fault of their own.

Option 3 would happen if the settlement is not amended. I, and others, may file individual lawsuits.

I would not have purchased my vehicle if I knew it polluted up to 40x over EPA mandates. Not only for moral reasons, but legal reasons. My car was sold to me in violation of the law. Volkswagen’s benefit of the bargain in this systematic fraud case is actually the full price of the car. It could be argued that the damages portion should be MSRP, dealer invoice, or full purchase price. This was systemic fraud on an unprecedented scale. Damages in my state and others is trebled in cases of systemic fraud.

Keeping that in mind, my proposed amended settlement offer is as follows:
1. Have the vehicle brought into EPA compliance though some fix that has yet to be determined, compensate owner for 50% of invoice price, and have the entire powertrain warrantied by Volkswagen for 120k miles after the fix is implemented.
2. If a vehicle can not be fixed, offer to buy back the vehicle for the full purchase price and all applicable taxes and fees incurred during the initial purchase.
3. If a vehicle can be fixed but the owner does not wish to have the car fixed, offer to buy back the vehicle for the September 15, 2015 NADA clean retail value with all applicable options, no modifier for mileage, a penalty award of $7,500, and all applicable taxes and fees incurred during the initial purchase.
4. Opt out of the proposed settlement
 
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uncle fishhead

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 29, 2016
Location
Dallas Area
TDI
2012 Golf
Here's my comment:

I recommend approval of the settlement. It appears to be generally fair at compensating owners. While the settlement might be improved to address specific complaints, valuations, and situations, there is a significant cost of delay for many members of the class. In fact, the primary harm that many have suffered is the inability to move forward due to the uncertainties of this case. A slightly imperfect solution is far better than an improved solution that is reached later.

That said, I have one specific complaint about the settlement terms. The exclusion of vehicle owners who have their car totaled between June 28th and the opt-out date in September is unjustifiable. Owners in that situation are clearly part of the class of those damaged by VW's actions with respect to these vehicles. Forcing them out of the class is unfair and creates the need for more litigation. They should get the same treatment of owners who have their car totaled during the period from September 2015 until June 28th or those who suffer the same after the opt-out date.

Thank You,
 

MrSprdSheet

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Location
East Coast
TDI
'09 JSW TDI
It would be great if someone who has seen FTC's comments, would post a link. Letters from legal professionals might be informative, for the rest of us. There isn't a lot on the internet about "modeling fraud compensation". I think VW is paying a lot (too much, even), but disagree that the Court's proposal is fair within the Class.
 

yamaguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Location
Chicagoland
TDI
2012 Passat SE 6man TDI, 2014 F-350 PSD, 2003 F-350 7.3 PSD, John Deere 2032R, Cub Cadet 882
A lot of good points here!! I'm going to a bit of copy and pasting along with a bit of my own commenting and send a letter off. Everyone needs to...
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
I left my response short and sweet.
"I currently own two VW diesels effected by the above referenced settlement. I want to point out that using trade in values for the buyback proposal is not a fair basis. Since both of my cars are considered generation 1, it currently appears that there will be no fix and I will probably be forced to take the buyback. At the trade in value, I will not be able to replace either car with something equivalent. Therefore, I think it would be more realistic to base the values off the clean retail price from early September 2015, prior to the news release of dieselgate.

If someone wants to contact me to discuss this, I can be reached at "


I thought about going done the path of there not really being anything equivalnet on the North American market but realized they won't care.
 
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Tarbe

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Location
USA
TDI
Touareg and Sportwagon Sold to VW
I sent in a rant, stating why I was objecting to the proposed settlement of the VW diesel emissions cheating scandal.
They sent me back an email directing me to a link they thought might be helpful.
It was a link to a page telling consumers how to avoid being ripped-off by shady car repair shops.

:eek::rolleyes::confused:
 

coolbreeze

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Location
Troutman NC
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE DSG - 2016 Tig SE for the wifey
LoL

I sent in a rant, stating why I was objecting to the proposed settlement of the VW diesel emissions cheating scandal.
They sent me back an email directing me to a link they thought might be helpful.
It was a link to a page telling consumers how to avoid being ripped-off by shady car repair shops.
:eek::rolleyes::confused:
:confused::rolleyes:
 

lalyde

Active member
Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Location
Midwest
TDI
2015 VW GSW MT TDI
I submitted a response to the 3 addresses provided. My main complaints were (as a 2015 owner who had not even made a payment yet when the scandal broke)
1. not being refunded purchase price (I would not have purchased the car had I known what was coming)
2. losing tax, title, registration
3. Being tinged for mileage since I like so many others drive a lot (my car is not a year old and I have 36K miles on it). I do not feel I should be punished for driving my car while VW takes time to sort out the mess they created.

In any case, the law office in CA called me yesterday. I will probably return the call but am curious if they have called anyone else. Or perhaps they just want to point out the above mentioned website to me over the phone. ;-)
 

dborja

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2011
Location
NorCal
TDI
2014 Passat TDI SE - Night Blue Metallic
I submitted a response to the 3 addresses provided. My main complaints were (as a 2015 owner who had not even made a payment yet when the scandal broke)
1. not being refunded purchase price (I would not have purchased the car had I known what was coming)
2. losing tax, title, registration
3. Being tinged for mileage since I like so many others drive a lot (my car is not a year old and I have 36K miles on it). I do not feel I should be punished for driving my car while VW takes time to sort out the mess they created.

In any case, the law office in CA called me yesterday. I will probably return the call but am curious if they have called anyone else. Or perhaps they just want to point out the above mentioned website to me over the phone. ;-)
I also sent an email to the DOJ and copied the lead counsel in SFO two weeks ago. The Counsel's office responded last week on email and I sent some follow-up questions/comments. I got a call from one of the lawyers last night and he was very patient and nice. He answered all my questions and said to call again if I have more.

Some tidbits from the conversation:
-I'm leasing and have excess mileage according to the lease contract. He said I will be liable per contract terms.
-I still have the option of buying the car after the fix and lease term. This was our plan before this mess but we're leaning towards turning it in now. However, the excess mileage is an issue
-VW is not precluded from adding incentives to keep its customers. So it's possible that they'll have something where they'll offer a deal to buy again within the VW group.
-Dealers will be hungry and may negotiate to make a sale

Don't hesitate to start talking right now to the lawyers listed in the proposed settlement. The lawyer I spoke to was very knowledgeable
 

lalyde

Active member
Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Location
Midwest
TDI
2015 VW GSW MT TDI
I also sent an email to the DOJ and copied the lead counsel in SFO two weeks ago. The Counsel's office responded last week on email and I sent some follow-up questions/comments. I got a call from one of the lawyers last night and he was very patient and nice. He answered all my questions and said to call again if I have more.

Some tidbits from the conversation:
-I'm leasing and have excess mileage according to the lease contract. He said I will be liable per contract terms.
-I still have the option of buying the car after the fix and lease term. This was our plan before this mess but we're leaning towards turning it in now. However, the excess mileage is an issue
-VW is not precluded from adding incentives to keep its customers. So it's possible that they'll have something where they'll offer a deal to buy again within the VW group.
-Dealers will be hungry and may negotiate to make a sale

Don't hesitate to start talking right now to the lawyers listed in the proposed settlement. The lawyer I spoke to was very knowledgeable

You were correct. I did not really ask any questions but the lawyer who called was obviously well versed in the details of the settlement. He calculated what my payout would be (which I had already done in my letter), went over the options and did a fairly good job explaining things. A couple of the points that stuck out to me were that a fix would not be approved if it had any affect on fuel economy or performance and that I could choose to keep my car as is and would still receive compensation. Since I have a loan the compensation would automatically go towards my loan (in the case of doing nothing, if you take the fix you just get a check). Also if you choose a buyback they will be processed on a first come first serve basis so sign up as soon as you can.
 

DanB36

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2003
Location
Savannah, GA
TDI
2014 Q5 Prestige TDI, Monsoon Gray
I could choose to keep my car as is and would still receive compensation.
Odd, I don't remember anything in any of the settlement documents saying this. Are you quite sure you understood him correctly?
 

MrSprdSheet

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Location
East Coast
TDI
'09 JSW TDI
A couple of the points that stuck out to me were that a fix would not be approved if it had any affect on fuel economy or performance ...
If he knows what he's talking about on this, he knows diesel is the means to catalyze extra NOx, using the LNT that is part of VW's current design. Some discussions include enlarged LNTs, as the fix. If they don't do this (and harm mpgs), there's really no gap to having to reach for SCR (urea). To me, this says they don't plan to fix the cars.

Even if the proposed .24gr/mile vs. .07gr/mile were accepted, how would VW get there? We've all heard "40X NOx", but I don't remember the average spew West Virginia researchers revealed? My guess is if 40X = .07*40, or 2.8grams/mile, that there's no way VW will even be able to get down to .24gr. The average has to be lower than 2.4, but this higher value would still represent quite a cut.
 

lalyde

Active member
Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Location
Midwest
TDI
2015 VW GSW MT TDI
Odd, I don't remember anything in any of the settlement documents saying this. Are you quite sure you understood him correctly?
I did understand him though I also find it odd and do wish I had further questioned him. He did specifically say that a choice was to do nothing and I could receive compensation (he did not specify a number) but since I have a loan on the car it would automatically go to that (as he used the example as it is like a mortgage where they would pay that down first). If I chose the fix I would get a check to do with what I want. I am still skeptical and may at some point call back for clarification as I also have never heard that either but I am quite sure he said it.

If he knows what he's talking about on this, he knows diesel is the means to catalyze extra NOx, using the LNT that is part of VW's current design. Some discussions include enlarged LNTs, as the fix. If they don't do this (and harm mpgs), there's really no gap to having to reach for SCR (urea). To me, this says they don't plan to fix the cars.

Even if the proposed .24gr/mile vs. .07gr/mile were accepted, how would VW get there? We've all heard "40X NOx", but I don't remember the average spew West Virginia researchers revealed? My guess is if 40X = .07*40, or 2.8grams/mile, that there's no way VW will even be able to get down to .24gr. The average has to be lower than 2.4, but this higher value would still represent quite a cut.
I am quite sure he is well versed on the terms of the agreement but since he is a lawyer I would doubt he has much engineering knowledge. I also have a 2015 so the conversation was tailored to my vehicle. I have been curious with the gen 3 cars if VW simply did undersize the urea tank and just not dose enough or if the deception went deeper to include some engine tuning and an undersized catalyst. This would lead me to believe for the gen 3 it might really just need more dosing and additional sensors but clearly that is speculation on my part.

If that was a blanket statement (and again, I did not dig since I have a gen3) then perhaps the rumors of no fix for gen 1 are true and which case I have no idea what happens from there.
 

bring

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2015
Location
Boston
TDI
'15 Jetta SEL, DSG
I haven't seen "do nothing" as an option anywhere, especially combined with $ back
 

lalyde

Active member
Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Location
Midwest
TDI
2015 VW GSW MT TDI
I haven't seen "do nothing" as an option anywhere, especially combined with $ back
I have not either which is why as I said above I am still skeptical. I did call back and ask for clarification just to make sure I did not misinterpret something. The lawyer was away from his desk so I left a message. If I get clarification I will report back.
 

lalyde

Active member
Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Location
Midwest
TDI
2015 VW GSW MT TDI
Well there was a misunderstanding there is no compensation if you do not get the fix (which I think everyone knew). Not sure where the mixup was as he was going on about the loan is like a mortgage thing (as I thought it was a bad analogy) but just wanted to clear the air so I didn't add more confusion to an already convoluted situation. ;-)
 

dborja

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2011
Location
NorCal
TDI
2014 Passat TDI SE - Night Blue Metallic
You were correct. I did not really ask any questions but the lawyer who called was obviously well versed in the details of the settlement. He calculated what my payout would be (which I had already done in my letter), went over the options and did a fairly good job explaining things. A couple of the points that stuck out to me were that a fix would not be approved if it had any affect on fuel economy or performance and that I could choose to keep my car as is and would still receive compensation. Since I have a loan the compensation would automatically go towards my loan (in the case of doing nothing, if you take the fix you just get a check). Also if you choose a buyback they will be processed on a first come first serve basis so sign up as soon as you can.
Thanks for adding the one about approval being contingent not only on acceptable emissions but also on fuel economy and performance impact. I forgot that tidbit and I think it's important.
 
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