Possible to just replace the water pump without a new timing belt?

[Leadbettr]

No there is no way to get the pump out. I'm done here, listen to the armchair mechanics who have no idea what they are talking about.

I have done dozens of timing belts, what you are proposing is very dangerous with no gain at all. Overnight a timing belt kit and tools and change it correctly in a parking if you have to. Or find a guru and just have it done professionally.

Which kit can be overnighted? Do you have an address near by I could walk to? Does it come with the tools?

Thanks!

Currently at the Cracker Barrel in Realto

 

[KLXD]

Can't get the pump out? I'll buy that. It's been a while and I'm not about to pull the cover to prove it one way or the other.

Very dangerous? How so? Sounds scary. I've done a few. More importantly I understand how the system works.

Experience is great but it isn't all that's required. A respected "Guru" wrote the timing belt procedure on this site that has a major mistake that I, I believe, a guy who has only done a few, was the first to point out. A mistake, not a typo, that demonstrates a lack of understanding of the design of the system. I wonder how many belts he has or had done.

 

[Leadbettr]

The pump is out and swapped.
It was definitely failing and leaking at the pump shaft. There is a lot of play.
I went to bed before I finished reassembling.
It's nosy as fck sleeping next to this LA freeway.

 

[Tdijarhead]

Just for general info, how did you lock the various parts at TDC or did you mark the belt?

 

[PakProtector]

Do not neglect rolling the crank over at least 2 revolutions before you touch it with the starter.

Douglas

 

[jmodge]

Do not neglect rolling the crank over at least 2 revolutions before you touch it with the starter.

Douglas

Whatever you do, don't neglect this. 12 point 19mm or 3/4". TDI is an interference engine. That's why the cam and IP sprockets float while the belt tension is set. Otherwise the cam and pump move with the movement of the belt. Without locking them you risk, at the least, putting the pump timing out of range of starting. Worse case, pistons kiss the valves.

 

[turbodieseldyke]

YOU CANNOT TENSION THE BELT CORRECTLY IF THE CAM AND IP ARE NOT LOOSE AND ALLOWED TO SPIN.

This doesn't make sense to me. If you install a new belt, loosen the cam and IP, then tension it, then the belt position is fixed between all 3 toothed pulleys and tensioner.

If, say 10000 miles later, you mark "& pray" the belt positions on all 3 pulleys, then reinstall, then apply tension, the belt + pulleys + tensioner should all be at the same position as they were when properly installed.

What am I missing?

 

[KLXD]

This doesn't make sense to me. If you install a new belt, loosen the cam and IP, then tension it, then the belt position is fixed between all 3 toothed pulleys and tensioner.

If, say 10000 miles later, you mark "& pray" the belt positions on all 3 pulleys, then reinstall, then apply tension, the belt + pulleys + tensioner should all be at the same position as they were when properly installed.

What am I missing?

Timing-wise I agree with that but...

The cam's going to sit where it wants due to the springs, same with the pump. If there's a little slack between these and the crank the tensioner spring isn't strong enough to overcome these others. That's why I said to apply some backwards torque on the cam sprocket, to take out this slack.

Not ideal or "correct' but good enough to get by. In my considered opinion.

 

[Mongler98]

I'm fairly sure he had to remove the belt anyways. Word is that it slipped

This doesn't make sense to me. If you install a new belt, loosen the cam and IP, then tension it, then the belt position is fixed between all 3 toothed pulleys and tensioner.

If, say 10000 miles later, you mark "& pray" the belt positions on all 3 pulleys, then reinstall, then apply tension, the belt + pulleys + tensioner should all be at the same position as they were when properly installed.

What am I missing?

Nothing.

 

[turbodieseldyke]

I'm fairly sure he had to remove the belt anyways. Word is that it slipped

Another great reason to run the water pump on the TB -- if it leaks, there's lubricant all over the round teeth.

 

[Mongler98]

And this is why I love the ahu

 

[Zak99b5]

058 block?

 

[PakProtector]

This doesn't make sense to me. If you install a new belt, loosen the cam and IP, then tension it, then the belt position is fixed between all 3 toothed pulleys and tensioner.

If, say 10000 miles later, you mark "& pray" the belt positions on all 3 pulleys, then reinstall, then apply tension, the belt + pulleys + tensioner should all be at the same position as they were when properly installed.

What am I missing?

Should have said, cam and IP *PULLEY free to move on their respective driven components. IP shaft and cam stay stationary and the pulleys roll to allow the belt to get tightened up uniformly.
cheers,
Douglas

 

[turbodieseldyke]

Should have said, cam and IP *PULLEY free to move on their respective driven components. IP shaft and cam stay stationary and the pulleys roll to allow the belt to get tightened up

I understand that. The new belt is installed, with pulleys floating during tensioning. If you de-tension the belt, then when you re-tension it, the pulleys AND shafts should all still be in the correct positions. The tensioner should take up the exact same slack that it just released.

 

[Genesis]

I understand that. The new belt is installed, with pulleys floating during tensioning. If you de-tension the belt, then when you re-tension it, the pulleys AND shafts should all still be in the correct positions. The tensioner should take up the exact same slack that it just released.

Uh huh. And how do you know its not slightly different in a relationship there (you DID replace a cogged item!) and thus you now have side-loaded the nibs on the belt.

That's the problem and why you don't do that.

 

[KLXD]

And thats why I said to put a little backwards torque on the cam while setting the tensioner. By doing this you put the driven sides of the teeth in contact with the driving sides of the teeth on the belt as well as take up any slack between the components that the tensioner spring may not be able to overcome.

I wonder how much play there actually is between the sprockets and belt teeth.

 

[Mongler98]

SO..... any updates? Did you get it running... did it all work out? or did this end in disaster? Im hoping for the best.... keep us updated please. have you got the new timing belt kit on now?

 

[Leadbettr]

SO..... any updates? Did you get it running... did it all work out? or did this end in disaster? Im hoping for the best.... keep us updated please. have you got the new timing belt kit on now?

Work was busy there for a while. Thanks for your patience.

It's running tight and smooth. Haha disasters avoided.

Towed my car to Top Shop Automotive in Goleta and had them install a timing belt kit from ID Parts.

Thanks folks for all of the help and brainstorming. I appreciated the support.

Now to get my AC working...

 

[03TDICommuter]

Work was busy there for a while. Thanks for your patience.

It's running. Haha disasters avoided.

Towed my car to Top Shop Automotive in Goleta and had them install a timing belt kit from ID Parts.

Goleta? You're up in my neck of the woods work wise.

 

[Leadbettr]

Goleta? You're up in my neck of the woods work wise.

I used to live In SB back when I had Vanagons so I got to know Top Shop well. I really recommend Willy and his crew. He's honest and takes care of you.

 

[03TDICommuter]

I used to live In SB back when I had Vanagons so I got to know Top Shop well. I really recommend Willy and his crew. He's honest and takes care of you.

Buddy of mine uses them and is happy. Knock on wood, so far I'm able to do all my own work.

BTW, is your username due to where you used to live in SB?

 

[Leadbettr]

Buddy of mine uses them and is happy. Knock on wood, so far I'm able to do all my own work.

BTW, is your username due to where you used to live in SB?

I do all my own work until I run out of time or I don't have/can't make/can't fake the right tool. 90% of my working on cars is on the side of some road or in the woods. It's not the best, I don't love it.
I've had Top Shop swap two engines for me to save time. Once because I was living in that Vanagon and another when my Golf engine died days before a three month 3,000 mile bicycle tour.
I did one engine swap myself around the corner from 'em with gentle guidance on the side of the side road. A bit easier with a subie engine in a Vanagon than the same job in a Golf TDI haha. At one point Willy even threatened to hire me.

As for my username, seriously you're literally the first person to notice that and say something.
Both my user name and email were both throw away labels from pre-social media days. Now they're stuck with me.

My photo too. I took that, off hand from a Sony candybar phone off the SB breakwater of two sailboats on the horizon.