Poor fuel economny need to know where to start

Tsywyk

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Location
Ontario
TDI
2001 jetta
I am kinda new to the Tdi world and am trying to learn things especially around the vcds software now getting more and more involved.

I haven't been experiencing good fuel economy at all. I am currently getting roughly 700 KM to a tank and in my eyes that is horrible. Since i got the car 1 year ago it has declined roughly 100kms per tank and i believe it goes down more every tank. i am currently focusing my searches around the vacuum area for the time being and will move on from there.

i just changed fuel and air filter today to have a look at how much of a difference the air filter will make as it was quite dirty. however recently i went to get this car tuned as it does have larger nozzles as well as a larger 11mm lift pump as i was told by the previous owner it however does not have a tune so i know i am losing some of the fuel economy to that but i am sure it isn't 300-500km worth. they told me to do a series of tests to tell them if the car is ready for tunes or not and they said the turbo actuator is not moving as much as they'd like or at least it isn't moving fully at startup or shut down i cant remember which it was i believe startup.

i have adjusted timing and IQ and all is good there running an IQ of about 4.5 and timing is very very slightly advanced enough to bounce off the perfect mark in VCDS. i am going to post some logs of pulls, and first just kinda regular driving conditions the second being a pull and the third being a everything but mainly a cruise. i looked mainly at my pull log at the boost and the MAF readings; the boost is reading slightly higher than the requested and doesn't ever drop below the requested like i am seeing most people are saying should be happening? So what i am asking is how are these readings looking to you guys are they any good is my MAF bad as it isnt ever going all the way up to 1100 or even close and also reads roughly 470 at idle.


If it is MAF sensor then it would explain why i am not getting good fuel economy. I was going to do another series of logs tomorrow as well as testing to see if unplugging the MAF as suggest by a few gets any better. As far as a loss in power i don't know as it is my first jetta.

Should this be a vacuum related issue where should i start with testing into things? i pulled the line off the vacuum accumulator and put my finger on it and it has relatively strong suction not sure what it us supposed to be but it feels quite good to me but that is at the accumulator could my N75 not be good anymore?

What would be the best course of action to get started here? i have ran several bottles of injector clesner through nealry with every fill up as i do with all my diesels. as well as 2 bottles of diesel purge one stright diesel purge in fuel filter when i did the change, however as i stated i did do this change today and anything i do does take a couple of weeks to go through a tank to be able to see if it is changed or not unless i go out driving aimlessly.

car is a 2001 jetta tdi ALH engine

Have been trying different driving styles, tried driving very eco friendly i.e never going above 1500-2k rpm tried heavy and tried a mix. I have also tried very eco with a small pull every now and again as suggest by a couple of threads still no change, i should also state that it is very consistent around 700km regardless of driving style unless im really on it.

EGR is stock and i pulled it to check yesterday and is very very clean, it has an oil buildup but other than that no build-up, cant say the same for my duramax lol....
 
Last edited:

ToxicDoc

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2018
Location
Virginia, US
TDI
2001 Jetta, S7, .216
 

Nevada_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Location
Reno, sort of...
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
I am a bit baffled, why did the PO remove the tune that was in it?
With bigger nozzles and a 11mm pump there is no doubt you will be suffering from poor fuel economy
Contact burpod, I am sure he can help you.
 

Tsywyk

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Location
Ontario
TDI
2001 jetta
Already read through this and am wondering where to start with my specific numbers. the things that would have caught my eye in that fourm are the MAF sensor, Breaks and turbo/vacuum as to why i am wondeirng if the MAF readings are good or not so i dont waste 120$ on a new sensor.

I am a bit baffled, why did the PO remove the tune that was in it?
With bigger nozzles and a 11mm pump there is no doubt you will be suffering from poor fuel economy
Contact burpod, I am sure he can help you.
The PO never got it tuned, at least that is what i was told now if it actually done or not i am unsure, why it wasnt done if thats the case i am also unsure..... however i have it now and am working my way to getting a tune would ideally like to rual everything else out before i get the tune to make sure that it is running the best it can and isnt perhaps over boosting. I just picked up some vacuum lines and am going to install them asap hopefully that might help the n75 at delivering the little extra vacuum it needs to be able to pull that actuator all the way open.. my MAF readings dont seem correct to me, i feel as if i should be getting close to specified and my specified seems to cap at 850 is this normal ? boost always seems slightly higher and requested as well..

I will contact him on the fourm yes? and i should ask for what looks like he has malone tunes ? ive never done the tuneing aspect of things howveer would like to do it so would he be able to walk through it as well or ?
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Disregard the "range" figure, link it to how much fuel you put in the tank and how far you've driven it, then refill it. 700km is only about 450 miles if my math-on-the-fly is correct, and if you went from a full tank until the low fuel light came on and only covered 450 miles I'd think you'd be seeing lots of visible black smoke out the exhaust even on moderate acceleration and/or would smell fuel (like a leak) somewhere.

But if someone put the 11mm pump in there and larger nozzles, with everything else stock, I would expect it to get less-than-ideal fuel economy anyway.
 

Johhny04

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
Markham, Ontario
TDI
2003 Jetta TDi
Go to the Ontario sub-section and look at the Trusted Mechanic's sticky and have a reputable shop work with you to get a tune and fix your actuator. If actuator is stuck or sticking, you're not doing yourself any favors. Also post in the Ontario section and see if a local guru is able to help fix your issues. Specify where in ON your located to dial-in a guru or shop.
 

Tsywyk

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Location
Ontario
TDI
2001 jetta
Disregard the "range" figure, link it to how much fuel you put in the tank and how far you've driven it, then refill it. 700km is only about 450 miles if my math-on-the-fly is correct, and if you went from a full tank until the low fuel light came on and only covered 450 miles I'd think you'd be seeing lots of visible black smoke out the exhaust even on moderate acceleration and/or would smell fuel (like a leak) somewhere.

But if someone put the 11mm pump in there and larger nozzles, with everything else stock, I would expect it to get less-than-ideal fuel economy anyway.
Would the larger 11mm pump and the nozzles make that much of a difference though ? and would would explain the decrease of at least 100 kms per tank since a year ago is also what i am trying to get at as well.

Yes it is about 430 kms from full as it goes to light on. I do see black smoke, however what everyone considers allot is subjective.. I personally consider any black smoke longer then 2 seconds excessive. i am currency seeing from about 40MPH or 60-70km/h in 5th i see a constant slightly more than a haze that doesn't clear up unless i let off the throttle. if i am at 40-50kmh and i floor it i see a bit more yet would almost consider allot of it to the point of where you would want it to be intentional, however if i drive normally there is only less than a slight haze that i see if even that if i drive it eco friendly.

I do not ever see fuel or smell it anywhere when i am driving or when i am parked.

Go to the Ontario sub-section and look at the Trusted Mechanic's sticky and have a reputable shop work with you to get a tune and fix your actuator. If actuator is stuck or sticking, you're not doing yourself any favors. Also post in the Ontario section and see if a local guru is able to help fix your issues. Specify where in ON your located to dial-in a guru or shop.
I will have a look but i would rather fix the problem myself than have someone else do it for me, i like fixing things and learning how to do it.

what is a guru ?

i would like to get a tune as well as fix my actuator which i am currently working towards, i just got my vacuum lines and am going to replace them today to see if that helps at all howveer i do need to know if the n75 could also cause it or if it is just poor lines or bad actuator. would like to work my way towards the actuator to ensure i am not just replacing things just because and wasting money..
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
If you see smoke, that's where your fuel is going. It really is getting too much fuel. And yes, it is subjective as a little haze on a hard acceleration is tough to avoid completely on any car. But a stock ALH doesn't smoke. Even a mildly modded ALH is not a big smoker.
 
Last edited:

Nevada_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Location
Reno, sort of...
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
Use Vag-Com to log "requested" boost vs. "actual" boost.
If your requested boost is up over 2000mb you likely have some sort of a tune.
Log groups 011, 001, and 004, that will give you somewhere to start.
PM sent
 

Tsywyk

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Location
Ontario
TDI
2001 jetta
If you see smoke, that's where your fuel is going. It really is getting too much fuel. And yes, it is subjective as a little haze on a hard acceleration is tough to avoid completely on any car. But a stock ALH doesn't smoke. Even a mildly modded ALH is not a big smoker.
yes you're completely right that is where smoke goes. my lmm has a small puff of smoke that lasts less than 2 seconds and clears up. it has the best tunes in all of Canada on it in my opinion. tuner is well known and does an excellent job. in my eyes should only be smoke if its actually wanted by owner and even then...

I do believe i am for sure loosing fuel to the bigger injectors and nozzles and would love to get the tune so it is coming soon, however will this cause that much of a difference ? ive heard of many people getting upwards of 1000km and in some cases even higher.. I could see me losing 100km but not 300km to lost fuel over injector nozzles and pump.. or am i wrong ?

Use Vag-Com to log "requested" boost vs. "actual" boost.
If your requested boost is up over 2000mb you likely have some sort of a tune.
Log groups 011, 001, and 004, that will give you somewhere to start.
PM sent
Requested boost is never over 1949 but actual is 2071 as a top that I've seen on recent logs. I posed my logs that do have groups 010,011 and 003. i will log groups 1 and 4 tomorrow and send them in.
 

Tsywyk

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Location
Ontario
TDI
2001 jetta
Use Vag-Com to log "requested" boost vs. "actual" boost.
If your requested boost is up over 2000mb you likely have some sort of a tune.
Log groups 011, 001, and 004, that will give you somewhere to start.
PM sent
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[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][RIGHT]16.48[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]2583[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]26[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]3.18[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]38.7[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]15.76[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]2562[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]7.7[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]7.3[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]52.6[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]16.12[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]2562[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]1917.6[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]1417.8[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]57.4[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][RIGHT]17.56[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]2394[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]0[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]0.66[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]39.6[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]16.84[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]2520[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]4.6[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]0[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]10.4[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]17.2[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]2499[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]1020[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]1295.4[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]47[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][RIGHT]18.67[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]2331[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]0[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]0.66[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]39.6[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]17.92[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]2373[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]4.4[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]0[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]9.6[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]18.29[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]2352[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]1009.8[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]1040.4[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]45.8[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][RIGHT]19.87[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]2247[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]0[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]0.66[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]40.5[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]19.07[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]2310[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]4.2[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]0[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]9.6[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]19.47[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]2289[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]1009.8[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]989.4[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]45[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][RIGHT]21.02[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]2163[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]4[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]1.52[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]41.4[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]20.27[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]2226[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]4.2[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]0[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]9.2[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]20.66[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]2184[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]1030.2[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]999.6[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][RIGHT]43.4[/RIGHT][/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Requested Data blocks
 

Nevada_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Location
Reno, sort of...
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
Based on your 2017 millibar reading it is unlikely you have a tune
Your readouts look odd to me.
Go to Ross-Tech dot com and the instructions are there to follow to run logs.
 

Tsywyk

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Location
Ontario
TDI
2001 jetta
Based on your 2017 millibar reading it is unlikely you have a tune
Your readouts look odd to me.
Go to Ross-Tech dot com and the instructions are there to follow to run logs.
Group A:'001Group B:'004Group C:'011
Engine SpeedInjection QuantityMod. PistonCoolantEngine SpeedStart of injectionStart of injectionCold Start InjectorEngine SpeedBoostBoostCharge Pressure
TIME(G28)Disp. (G149)Temperature (G62)TIME(G28)SpecifiedActualDuty cycleTIME(G28)SpecifiedActual(N75) Solenoid
MarkerSTAMP/minmg/strV°CSTAMP/min°BTDC°BTDC%STAMP/minmbarmbar%
0.8​
2730​
23.2​
2.88​
36.9​
0.01​
2415​
6.8​
6.6​
46.2​
0.39​
2541​
1428​
1213.8​
49​
1.99​
3318​
26​
3.28​
36.9​
1.2​
2919​
7.3​
7.3​
58.2​
1.6​
3129​
1570.8​
1693.2​
67.3​
3.1​
3906​
27.2​
3.46​
36.9​
2.37​
3528​
10.3​
10.8​
70.9​
2.75​
3717​
1621.8​
1734​
72.5​
4.19​
3297​
0​
1.22​
36.9​
3.46​
4053​
15.6​
17.4​
74.5​
3.83​
4179​
1132.2​
1642.2​
84.9​
5.27​
2919​
35.8​
3.74​
36.9​
4.55​
3213​
8.4​
8.1​
57.8​
4.91​
2793​
1938​
1662.6​
30.3​
6.37​
3255​
35.4​
3.82​
36.9​
5.63​
3024​
12.1​
13.2​
77.3​
5.99​
3129​
1938​
2019.6​
64.5​
7.58​
3591​
34​
3.98​
36.9​
6.77​
3360​
12.5​
12.8​
73.7​
7.17​
3486​
1948.2​
2050.2​
70.5​
8.73​
4116​
3.6​
1.66​
36.9​
7.97​
3696​
14.1​
15​
78.1​
8.36​
3801​
1927.8​
2009.4​
76.5​
9.8​
2793​
31​
3.12​
36.9​
9.09​
3339​
8.4​
0​
13.9​
9.44​
3444​
1621.8​
1356.6​
49​
10.88​
2961​
35.6​
3.8​
36.9​
10.16​
2856​
10.8​
10.8​
66.5​
10.53​
2898​
1948.2​
2213.4​
72.9​
11.97​
3087​
35.6​
3.78​
37.8​
11.24​
2982​
11.9​
11.7​
74.5​
11.6​
3045​
1948.2​
1968.6​
64.9​
13.13​
3234​
35.4​
3.82​
37.8​
12.34​
3150​
12.1​
12.3​
70.1​
12.73​
3192​
1948.2​
2009.4​
68.9​
14.33​
2520​
0​
0.66​
37.8​
13.53​
3297​
12.1​
12.1​
69.3​
13.94​
3339​
1336.2​
2009.4​
94.4​
15.4​
2541​
19​
2.6​
38.7​
14.69​
2373​
5.7​
2.2​
70.5​
15.05​
2541​
1315.8​
1213.8​
47.8​
16.48​
2583​
26​
3.18​
38.7​
15.76​
2562​
7.7​
7.3​
52.6​
16.12​
2562​
1917.6​
1417.8​
57.4​
17.56​
2394​
0​
0.66​
39.6​
16.84​
2520​
4.6​
0​
10.4​
17.2​
2499​
1020​
1295.4​
47​
18.67​
2331​
0​
0.66​
39.6​
17.92​
2373​
4.4​
0​
9.6​
18.29​
2352​
1009.8​
1040.4​
45.8​
19.87​
2247​
0​
0.66​
40.5​
19.07​
2310​
4.2​
0​
9.6​
19.47​
2289​
1009.8​
989.4​
45​
21.02​
2163​
4​
1.52​
41.4​
20.27​
2226​
4.2​
0​
9.2​
20.66​
2184​
1030.2​
999.6​
43.4​

Is this better now ?
 

Nevada_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Location
Reno, sort of...
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
Much easier for me to read. Thanks.
I misread your earlier post with 1949 mbar being max requested, no tune.
Your N75 %'s are allover the place.
When N75% numbers are low the ECU is calling for boost, when they are -80%+ the ECU is bleeding off boost.
PM "burpod", he is the man to talk to
 
Last edited:

Tsywyk

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Location
Ontario
TDI
2001 jetta
Much easier for me to read. Thanks.
I misread your earlier post with 1949 mbar being max requested, no tune.
Your N75 %'s are allover the place.
When N75% numbers are low the ECU is calling for boost, when they are -80%+ the ECU is bleeding off boost.
PM "burpod", he is the man to talk to
Have already been talking to him and he has also been super helpful ! working with him to fix this issue then getting a tune finally !!
 
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