Phase 2 fix

[moon1234]

Then add to the fact there are cars that have sat for
MONTHS waiting for parts like add-blue heaters... because parts are getting rare, hard to get and even dealerships are having issues getting them, you could litterly have a paperweight for 6 months trying to get a REQUIRED part to fix the car or it will not run...just to get it to the point to get a warranty item completed...or to make the fight to have it completed..or a delete and tune, back on the road in a couple days max...if it's allowed in your area.
Wait too long....

It is not "Allowed" anywhere. Say it like it really is "If you can do it and not get caught in your area...."

 

[moon1234]

If Phase 2A was done before 40k miles for a DSG or 70k miles for a 6spd, you only got a software fix and I think an o2 sensor. ONCE you hit 70k miles, you can take it in anytime for the 2B fix, which in turn you'll be provided a loaner, a complimentary service(oil change, ? what else) and a full tank of fuel. You also get an extra 5yrs/60k mile warranty once 2b is complete. My service manager told me to hold off as long as possible to do 2b. I thought 2b had to be done by 11yrs or 162k miles though....

2B can be done at 40K for auto or 70K for manual. VW WILL NOT re-imburse the dealer if phase 2b is done BEFORE these mileage ranges. The initial fix was just software to remove the offending code.

The whole cheat was not even necessary on ANY 2015 and since the Passat TDI always had SCR/DOC/DPF in the USA, there really was zero reason to do it on any of those cars either. VW worried that people in the USA would not make it to the next oil change without needing to add DEF. That was the ONLY reason to do it on those cars. That is why the software fix was the only thing that was really required initially. The replacement parts were needed because the EPA was trying to "Punish" VW. They had such a small marginal improvement to not really be needed.

 

[moon1234]

Hello all. I realize this thread is old and hasn't been added to in the last 7 months, but it touches on some things I'm pondering and just hoping I can get some clarity from this group to help me understand better.

I bought my 2015 NMS Passat TDI SEL Premium August 2017, with 11,100 miles on it and after the selling dealer completed Phase 1 of the emissions modifications. At that time, the Extended Emissions Warranty extension was to be the greater of:

1. 11 years or 162,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the vehicle's original in-service date, or
2. 5 years or 60,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the date and mileage of Phase 1 of the emissions modification

For Phase 2A, according to the letter I received in July 2018 to bring it in for Phase 2, this paragraph of that letter applied to my situation:

• If you purchased a vehicle with the Phase 1 emissions modification already applied and your vehicle has accumulated fewer than 40,000 miles (for automatic transmissions) or 70,000 miles (for manual transmissions) at the time of your Phase 2 update, we will not replace the Diesel Particulate Filter, Diesel Oxidation Catalyst, and Selective Catalytic Reduction Converter in your vehicle at that time and we request that you return at a future date for its replacement once your vehicle has accumulated at least 70,000 miles. At the time of this service, you will receive a complimentary maintenance service with a free tank of fuel and have the aforementioned hardware installed at that time.

The warranty extension following Phase 2 was noted as follows in the letter received:

1. 11 years or 162,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the vehicle's original in-service date, or
2. 5 years or 60,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the date and mileage of Phase 2 of the emissions modification

My Phase 2A was completed on August 13, 2018, when the vehicle had 19,090 miles on it. The original in-service date was August 13, 2015. As such, my warranty extension would be, per the two items listed:

1. August 13, 2026; or 162,000 miles
2. August 13, 2022; or 79,090 miles

Item #1 is the greater of the two, so is my current warranty extension guide. My car now, as of February 23, 2025, has 147,500 miles on it. I also have 53.0 grams ash in my DPF (the trigger point built into the ECU to force a DPF change is 80.0 grams). GIven 53.0 grams ash is 2/3rds of the 80.0 gram limit, my predicted DPF life will be 221,250 miles (or 73,750 miles from now).

Given I'm within 14,500 miles of ending my extended emissions warranty, I'm thinking about getting Phase 2B completed. My understanding is that completing Phase 2B will extend my emissions warranty coverage an additional 5 years or 60,000 miles from the date/mileage that Phase 2B is completed. Is this a correct understanding?

I also see in the Phase 2 letter I received in July 2018 that the Phase 2B update components are needed to maintain emissions performance for the full useful life (150,000 miles) of the vehicle. So now I'm wondering if I have a get Phase 2B completed prior to reaching 150,000 miles (within my next 2,500 miles). Does anyone know if VW will provide the Phase 2B components if the car is in excess of 150,000 miles?

Lastly, has anyone had Phase 2B completed on their 2015 TDI recently (such as in 2025)? I'm just wondering if VW will even consider doing Phase 2B on my Passat anymore.

I would just like to canvas this forum to see what others have done and what is possible.

There is no "trigger", the car will keep running just fine. The 80g Ash is just the "design" limit and it is calculated, there is no way the car is "measuring" the amount of ash. There multiple people with much more calculated ash than 80g who are still driving around just fine. Amount of ash will really be determined by driving style (heavy throttle=more soot=more ash), wrong oil (not ESP type oil that leaks past rings and burns will create a lot more ash), tune (more soot), poor fuel (more ash), etc.

 

[moon1234]

one of my cars shows YES for modification completed, while the other two show PARTIAL, neither one had the DPF replaced. Does this mean the first car has a phase 2A and 2B done or Im missing something here?

A car marked as "Complete" most likely had a dealer mark it completed when the vehicle had MORE than 40k/70K miles (auto/manual) and phase 2B was then done. This care would then be complete from the "recall" standpoint. the 5/60k extension really made zero sense to most people when it first came out as the in service date with 11 years and 162k miles seemed like such a long time. Now that we see some cars never had phase 2 done at all it makes more sense.

The only real way to know is to have dealer look is ELSA with you cars VIN and see what the mileage was when phase 2b was completed. If it was prior to the minimums or never done, then you are golden with the 2nd variant getting the 5 year/60k miles extended warranty. I think it would be really unfair if they did 2B at 16k miles and ran out your 5year/60k and then you had to do it again and not get the benefit of it, but that is pretty much what I bet they will do.

If I experienced DEF issues on a car that had not had phase two done yet, but was past the 162K miles, then I would clear the codes, drop it off at the dealer, and have them do phase 2b. Get the 5 year/60K extension and then haul it back when the CEL came on and have them fix it under warranty.

 

[moon1234]

I believe this is the correct interpretation

@93celicaconv It's worth noting that emissions systems faults will cause a DTC, by design. So for VW to tell a customer to fix the emissions system faults (which are under warranty) before they complete a recall intended to keep the emissions system operational is strange. That being said, I didn't own one of these cars prior to the scandal/recall/fix availability period.

If the car is still under the extended warranty 5/60K or 11/162K, then they will replace the failed part (just that part) to get the car operational again. If the car is OUTSIDE of that extended warranty then they can make you fix the problems before performing the recall. If you are outside of warranty then get a code scanner that will allow you to reset all of the codes in the dealer parking lot. Then drop off the car and have the recall done.

@ZippyNH I think you're getting at the point of the later version of the letter. The "spirit" of the settlement is that VW is responsible for keeping your car emissions compliant for the service life... let's just call that 11/162k since that is the standard warranty from the in-service date on a 2015 TDI.

I bought a new (fist owner) 2015 TDI in 2017, which had Phase 1 completed before being sold. Let's say 7 years later I'm at 60k and I go in for Phase 2, and because of my mileage they order a 2A kit, so I don't get new DPF. The 5/60k after recall "applies" but my 11/162k is still the longer of the warranty periods. So year 12 (or I take a job with long commute and hit my 162k) I need a DPF... but I'm out of warranty. Per the old letters that's on me.

Then we take the same scenario except I don't go in for Phase 2 until beyond the mileage limit so I get a new DPF. And let's say the 5/60k for the recall actually pushes me out past the original 11/162k. I'm now in a better position given the life expectancy that VW had for the DPF. We may presume this limit is somewhere around 162k.

The above paragraph is the best case scenario. Most DPFs will go longer than the 162k miles unless the car is constantly being floored (more soot), not using ESP type oil (more soot), have a tune (more soot), using poor fuel (more soot).

I do agree the intent is not a never ending list of free parts. But at the same time, suppose a car with 180k without Phase 2 having been completed has a DTC. You are out of warranty but take it in, they scan and confirm the issue is DPF. Car has an open recall which will replace the DPF. So VW completes the recall... that resets you to 5/60k. Should emissions equipment fail within that time that's on VW to fix. Obviously after the 5/60k you're on your own.

If you are outside of the 11/162K it will be harder to get the service done with code set. Much better to clear the codes and then ASK for the phase 2b to be done. Some dealers will require any outstanding "issues" to be fixed before performing recall work. They will claim that it "may not be emissions control module that is causing your problem" type of scam.

Remember a recall is supposed to be done BEFORE a problem occurs. If there was a recall for an twitchy airbag sensor and you waited for the airbag to go off I doubt any dealer would be paying to replace the airbag. Sort of the same idea here.

I would completely understand them asking you to pay for the diagnostic up front because you are out of warranty. But once the issue is confirmed as something the open recall will replace I would think they are obligated to do the recall. Maybe the dealer tries to say you must fix the DTC before they do the recall but I would take that up with VWoA right away.

 

[Cuzoe]

@moon1234 thank you for clearing that up. Some things that I wasn't clear on but just theorized about, and some that I didn't even think about... Like just clearing the codes when dropping off for 2B.

And also about the loaner. A lot of people just say my dealer doesn't provide loaners. I understand that a dealer might not want to provide them but as I always read it this isn't up to the dealer. That's obviously not to say that a dealer won't fight you about it. And there's reason to not want a dealer that fights you about it working on your car. But it's good to have it that they are in the wrong... And if you really wanted to push it ultimately you should be able to get a loaner.

And although I understood it I don't know that in all of my typing I ever differentiated between me 11/162k and the 5/60k, with the latter applying only to emissions equipment. But that of course makes sense.

 

[Lightflyer1]

Thank you to whoever supplied those last two documents. I have saved them to my phone to use for my car. It was a stop sale car with only 17 mi on it when I bought it. Only 2A done so far. 70 k now and dented up from a major hail storm. Insurance paid $18k for it and I kept it.

 

[Sad02Jetta]

I recently had the 2B update on my 2015 Sportwagon in January at 80K miles. The 2A update was done at 29K miles. I purchased the vehicle new (first owner) with an in-service date of April 2017. According to https://www.vw.com/en/emissions.html, the warranty states:

Extended Emissions Warranty Information*
The vehicle has an Extended Emissions Warranty that runs for 11 years or 162,000 miles from the original in-service date. Please see your VW dealership for additional information including the vehicle's in-service date.

In addition, and concurrently, the Extended Emissions Warranty runs for 5 years or 60,000 miles (whichever occurs first) from the date of modification or first dealer resale post-modification. Your vehicle was modified on Apr 18, 2017 and 92 miles. Please see your VW dealership for additional information on the vehicle's post-modification dealer re-sale date.

Notice it says "and concurrently" and "first dealer resale post-modification" - this would be triggered by the 2A partial modification.

The documentation I received when I purchased the vehicle adds additional details:

Warranty Period
The warranty period for the "Extended Emissions Warranty" limited warranty extension is the greater of:
-11 years or 162,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the vehicles original in-service date; OR
-5 years or 60,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the date and mileage of purchase. At the time of the subsequent Phase 2 modification, the extended warranty will be honored for 5 years or 60,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the date and mileage of installation of the second NOx sensor.

The second NOx sensor triggers the start date of the 5yr/60K warranty. This was part of the 2A modification, if you didn't meet the mileage criteria for the full Phase 2 modification.

Those that are delaying the Phase 2 update (partial or full modification), don't get an additional 5yr/60K miles if they wait until year 10/11 to do it. Notice it says the "greater of" the two conditions...11 years/162K is greater than 5 year/60K miles at year 10 of ownership. So it still ends in year 11. At least that is my reading of it. I believe that second condition was included for those that purchased a VW after the buyback program and they already had the Phase 1 already completed or for those that didn't participate in the buyback and only had Phase 1 done. The Phase 2 was not available until 2018 and vehicles could have had substantial mileage on them by that time. Those vehicle owners may have felt short-changed under the 11 year warranty, so they offered this 5 year/60K warranty.

The Phase 2(A&B) update will always be available since is was part of their settlement with the government. However, if you do it after the 11 year/162K mile, then you just get the std 12 month part warranty and not all the systems included which are part of the "Extended Emissions Warranty".

It would be great if my warranty extends to 2030 since I just completed 2B, however, I don't think that is the case.

The document I received back when I purchased the car, goes on to say:

"As discussed above if your vehicle has accumulated fewer than 70,000 miles at the time of your Phase 2 update, your car will later need to have the DOC replaced at 70,000 miles. VW will provide a 1 year or 12,000 mile warranty on this DOC."

 

[Cuzoe]

I guess their use and placement of "OR" leaves room for interpretation.

But I don't see any room for interpretation of "At the time of the subsequent Phase 2 modification, the extended warranty will be honored for 5 years or 60,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the date and mileage of installation of the second NOx sensor."

So you could be correct that someone in your case with 2A done at 29k would have started that 5/60k clock thus your "limit" is the years.

My car (also purchased new in 2017, with Phase 1) has not had any part of Phase 2 done. So as I read it a 5/60k extension will begin at that time.

 

[ZippyNH]

My gut always kinda said if/when 2b was done it would likely be NEAR the end of the warranty resulting in a simple 12 months parts warranty on the new installed DPF...

 

[Cuzoe]

To be fair, getting 2B done (under the recall, towards the end or even out of the 11/162k) at say 15years/250k is a win even with a simple 12 month warranty... that covers all the newly installed parts which I would not expect to fail within 5/60k. Especially considering at that point you're a 10 years AND whatever mileage into the original equipment.

 

[Sad02Jetta]

Also, VW does not guarantee availability of any components needed to do a repair of a vehicle that does not have the Phase 1 and Phase 2 modification. Who knows how they might use that clause to their advantage to push vehicles to be modified.

 

[Sad02Jetta]

If my HPFP is going to fail, I want it to fail before the 11 year/162K warranty is up! That concerns me more than when the Phase 2 should be completed.

However, I agree, when possible, delaying the Phase 2 makes sense. I had no issues. Car ran fine. No lights/codes. I did it because language in the document implied that it was only available until January 2025. Now having read through some posts here, I see it is open-ended. Oh well, I can't change that. My DPF must have been somewhat clogged - it is definitely more responsive now and sounds different.

 

[x1800MODMY360x]

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2017/MC-10121013-9999.pdf

Since we are talking about 2015, not sure if this document was posted but it's the parts list of what is covered to be fix by the dealer for emissions warranty.

 

[Sad02Jetta]

Thanks for that link! The specific sensors and long block components are helpful. I had a leaking rear main seal at 67K miles, which they fixed under warranty.

I couldn't figure out how to add images, but the warranty disclosure (3 pages) I received when I purchased my 2015 Sportwagon in 2017, had the following additional txt regarding covered components:

Parts Covered Under Extended Warranty
The emissions system warranty shall cover the following parts or systems:

• The entire exhaust after treatment system, including the Diesel Oxidation Catalyst, the Diesel Particulate Filter, the Selective Catalytic Reduction converter, the dosing injector and other Diesel Exhaust Fluid system components, the exhaust flap, and all sensors and actuators;
• The entire fuel system, including fuel pumps, high pressure fuel rail, fuel injectors, vibration damper, pressure control valve and all sensors and actuators;
• The Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system, including EGR valves, EGR cooler, EGR filter, EGR temperature sensor, all related hoses and pipes, and all sensors and actuators;
• The turbocharger, including the turbocharger damper; and
• The On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) system, including Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) quality sensor, and any malfunctions detected by the OBD systems other than those related to the transmission.

Additionally, the engine long block warranty shall cover the engine sub-assembly that consists of the assembled block, crankshaft, cylinder head, camshaft, and valve train.

The extended emissions warranty includes parts, labor, and applicable taxes. The extended emissions warranty shall not void or supersede any existing warranty. Conflicts concerning the warranty are to be resolved in favor of the consumer.

More information about your extended emissions warranty coverage is available at
www.vwdiesellookup.com and in the customer letter and booklet provided to you contemporaneously with this disclosure.

Transferability
This extended emissions warranty is fully transferable to subsequent owners.

Warranty Notices
All normal warranty provisions remain in effect.

 

[93celicaconv]

Just coming back to my post #127 and some subsequent posts:

I did visit our local VW dealer yesterday. They looked up my VIN and did say my Phase 2B is still active and available for me, and they could schedule it any time. I told them my vehicle now has 148,000 miles and my original letter said the intent was to get the vehicle to it end of life mileage of 150,000, and asked if that meant my Phase 2B needs to be done prior to 150,000 miles (within next 2,000 miles), and the service advisor said NO, the warranty is open until 2050 or 600,000 miles, whichever happens first. And did say there would be an emissions warranty extension of 5 years/60,000 miles from the date/mileage that Phase 2B is completed. So that sounded great.

The service advisor did say it could take weeks, even a month, for the car to be in the shop, regarding part availability. I asked if the service date could be set up after all parts for phase 2B are secured, which he said yes to, but he also said if other parts are determined to be required that are not in the kit, that will be discovered during the recall work, those part deliveries could extend the time the vehicle is in the shop.

I did ask about a loaner vehicle. The service advisor said they have loaner vehicles, but they are scarce, so there is no guarantee that they will be able to provide a loaner at the time my car would be scheduled for Phase 2B. Glad to see the letter from VW to dealers stating this is not the case, even if the dealership needs to secure a rental car - as VW will provide reimbursement to them for the cost. I didn't see this part of the thread until after I visited the dealership.

So in my case, I will run my car until I get closer to the 162,000 mile limit (only 14,000 miles from now) and decide if I want to wait beyond that or not.

Also, using VCDS, Block 637 says: Particle Filter ash load limit: 80.0 g
VCDS also says Block 632: Particle Filter: oil ash volume: 53.2 g

It is my understanding that if the DPF oil ash volume reaches the 80.0 g limit, the engine will go into limp mode until the DPF is replaced. If the ash load continues in the future as it has progressed thus far, I should get to 222,500 miles before the DPF reaches the 80.0 g limit. I will certainly have Phase 2B done before this limit is reached. But for things covered by warranty in the extended emissions warranty (fuel system including the HPFP, the adblue system, etc.), keeping those parts in warranty after 162,000 miles seems attractive to me rather than being out of warranty between 162,000 mile to 222,500 miles, then getting the 5 year/60,000 mile extended emissions warranty added back again. Just my thoughts, if I understand this all correctly (not sure I do though).

 

[93celicaconv]

MC-10180600-0001.pdf - Reminders - TDI Approved Emissions Modifications, Emissions Compliant Repairs, corrections and extended warranty / warranty policy and loaner vehicle overview

This letter is extremely useful. My only question is if it applies for VW TDI's. The letter is focused on Audi TDI's only (from Audi Warranty/Communications, Audi of America, etc.). Is there a similar letter that exists focused on VW TDI's, dealers, etc.? I'm thinking a VW dealer will look at this letter and say it pertains to Audi TDI's & dealerships, not to VW TDI's and dealerships.

 

[Sad02Jetta]

I did visit our local VW dealer yesterday. They looked up my VIN and did say my Phase 2B is still active and available for me, and they could schedule it any time. I told them my vehicle now has 148,000 miles and my original letter said the intent was to get the vehicle to it end of life mileage of 150,000, and asked if that meant my Phase 2B needs to be done prior to 150,000 miles (within next 2,000 miles), and the service advisor said NO, the warranty is open until 2050 or 600,000 miles, whichever happens first. And did say there would be an emissions warranty extension of 5 years/60,000 miles from the date/mileage that Phase 2B is completed. So that sounded great.

Thanks for sharing this! Since I just had 2B done in January (I should have waited and done more research on this prior to getting it done). According to what you're saying, I have extended coverage until 2030/140K miles (currently at 80K). My 11 year/162K warranty would take me to 2028...now I have an additional 2 years.

 

[Cuzoe]

@Sad02Jetta You now have warranty on emissions equipment through 2030 (because the 5 added years from 2B). The 11/162k covers more than just emissions equipment, but also covers emissions equipment. Getting 2B at 80k didn't give you any more miles of coverage. You don't lose anything of course.

If your current mileage accrual rate doesn't change the added 2 years of emissions is meaningful, should something fail.

 

[Sad02Jetta]

In hindsight, I should have had my ash level checked, as 93celicaconv did, and then planned accordingly. Then, delayed my 2B accordingly to maximize the 5yr/60K, as I believe, you intend to do. I also recently switched to driving my 02 Jetta TDI more (my daughter was using it) which currently has 283K miles. The 15 Sportwagon will accrue very few miles unless the 02 dies, but that ALH engine is amazing with proper maintenance.