Phase 2 fix

[Z85rado]

My car has been to two different dealers 3 times for warranty work. One at maybe 30K and the other two at 50 or so. I have inquired every time about the phase 2 fix and it feels like the dealer just doesn't want to deal with it. The last time he gave me a number to call. Car now has 63k on it. is the phase 2 fix something I need to pursue or the dealer should just perform? Only reason I am thinking about it is a friends brother in law is looking at a TDI sportwagen so i started looking up the 11/162 warranty etc to see what it actually covers.

 

[Lightflyer1]

They are required to do the second fix on your car and it also can extend the warranty for some time after the fix as well. Call VWoA and tell them the issue you are having and they can contact the dealer. Is there another dealer you could use instead? They don't sound like someone I would want working on it unless you have no other choice. If another is close enough have them try. By the court decree it must be done if you take it in. They also owe you a loaner depending on the time it will take to complete. Read the document for your car/version and go from there. Hard to have the upper hand if you are ignorant of what the document contains. Good luck!

 

[Z85rado]

thanks, fortunately I am in a metro area, unfortunately I have not had a good dealer experience here or Albany NY where we came from before. The dealer closest to where I work in north jersey tried to schedule me weeks out for warranty work. VW of shrewsbury where I ended up bringing it didn't end up fixing it the first time(who knows who's fault as it did start and drive off the lot fine) for a total of 20 days, no loaner, for warranty work. I just picked up a 5th car and will be selling 2 of the 5 in the next month. The lack of reliability and lengthy repair times make me very weary of having only two cars

 

[Lightflyer1]

You have to know what the court document says very well if you don't want to miss out on stuff. Read and learn that thing by heart.

 

[740GLE]

What are the stickers under the hood say for fixes?

Remember there's kind of two phase 2 fixes one of them is require, the other is just there to carry the car through warranty period. Ph2A is cutting in an O2 sensor and updating ECU, ph2B is replacing the DPF to meet the warranty period. I don't believe VW is "required" to do ph2B unless original stuff have faile, DPF clogged.

 

[Lightflyer1]

2b was required to be done when certain mileage thresholds were reached. It had nothing in the documents about it having to be clogged or setting codes.

 

[740GLE]

You said "was", not "is", that is a big big difference, there is no requirement anymore.

I have heard of no one recently going into a dealer with no issues on the emissions on car with phase 2a completed and getting phase 2b completed.

Per the documentation new hardware is only installed "that is needed to maintain emissions performance for the full useful life (150,000 miles) of your vehicle " per VW if no CEL is on no phase 2b will be installed.

 

[Lightflyer1]

I have an open case currently working this out with VW. My car just turned over 40k and 2/2b wasn't done due to mileage. The court decree says differently and I am pursuing that angle in my claim with VW. They can either do it now or before 150k miles as the decree states. I would prefer to wait though. If you have to have an emission repair done it will include 2b all the way out to the end of the warranty and maybe more depending on the issue. I just want it in writing that my car (stop sale) is due 2b before 150k miles even if I don't have any issues. When it is all settled and done I will feel more comfortable. But it is my opinion that my car and a few others are real exceptions in this regard. Most cars exceeded the mileage requirement easily and aren't involved. This is the part I am talking about and it differs from your quote.

"You will receive a notice when Phase 2 of the emissions modification is
available for your vehicle. You should expect to receive this notice
before June 30, 2019. If your vehicle has accumulated fewer than
40,000 miles (for automatic transmissions) or 70,000 miles (for
manual transmissions) at the time of your Phase 2 update, your car will
need to have the Diesel Oxidation Catalyst replaced a second time,
before it reaches 150,000 miles. We will notify you when it is time to
bring your car in for the second catalyst replacement."

It says nothing about a check engine light or anything else. Just that it is required to be replaced before 150k miles. I am going by the court decree and not any VW paperwork. My emissions equipment were never replaced the first time as back then it was almost new and had few miles on it.

 

[hskrdu]

Per the documentation new hardware is only installed "that is needed to maintain emissions performance for the full useful life (150,000 miles) of your vehicle " per VW if no CEL is on no phase 2b will be installed.

This is not at all how I read the Gen 3 information. I can't find any reference to a CEL requirement when it comes to Phased emission work associated with the EPA/VW agreement. Several documents, including the 23Y8 Approved Emissions Statement reference Phase 2 (in total) as a requirement to meet VW's settlements with the United States Department of Justice (DOJ), EPA, CARB, the California Attorney General’s Office (CAAG), the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and Class Counsel, as well as to ensure emissions compliance over the "life of the vehicle," which as you know, has been pegged at 150,000 miles (phase 2 is "is needed to maintain emissions performance for the full useful life").

This is not a statement about whether dealers understand the settlement, or whether VW will abide by the settlement, or if the parts will be available for the settlement work, but rather how I think the settlement reads in regards to Phase 2. I agree that dealers seem inconsistent when doing Phase 2, with some observing the transmission/mileage guidelines, and others not.

 

[JM Popaleetus]

if no CEL is on no phase 2b will be installed.

That is completely incorrect.

2B gets done, period, after 40k miles if you have a DSG (70k if manual).

 

[Z85rado]

if im close to 70k should I wait? benefits?

 

[Lightflyer1]

if im close to 70k should I wait? benefits?

Up to you but you should at least have a conversation with your dealer and/or VWoA about it first. But read the decree first so you have good knowledge of what it says and details in there. Knowledge is power. The benefit of waiting is getting a new system later in the life of the car and having that extra time/mileage before something goes wrong with it. Cons are if they screw up the job or refuse to even acknowledge it is required of them.

 

[740GLE]

Walk into a dealer (or call) and see what they say, they'll say there is "no open campaigns/recalls". I just did and was told as such "all emissions updates were completed May 2019" no open campaigns. Yet we only Received 2A. I believe the sticker under the hood says as such, same with the paperwork. Maybe a call to beg and plead with VWoA will get different results.

What the paper and courts say seems to differ vs what the the real world has in store.

What are peoples recent experience with dealer visits and 2B emissions hardware? I know VW was gladly tossing parts to get phase 2A/2B done early back in 2017/8 especially for NOS/CPO purchase once parts became availbile, is that the same experience today?

Again I believe phase 2B is only there to meet the emissions warranty, which is counter to how I read the PDF literature as well.

 

[hskrdu]

We have two Mk7's. Hers was a stop-sale, that had only Ph1, the other was a CPO with all work completed. Both cars have (mostly) avoided the dealer, so I haven't had them do a check, but we've received two little mailers from VW over the last two years asking us to come in for warranty work. Honestly, I ignored it because I was in no rush to get Ph2 for (her) car. For mine, they did Ph2a and 2b prior to the dealer sale, even though it only had 12k miles on it. I didn't really care because they actually did a complete CPO refresh, which is getting to be rare. I think the receipts they provided associated with the VIN totaled about $2,000, and the car was nearly mint. That second DPF threw a code two years later, and they replaced everything. Crazy, but it gave me a new DPF with no ash (again). No issues since then. The only time I've talked to someone about getting Ph2 for her car was when the original salesman called a while back to check on us (he's a TDI fan, and has been with VW for 25 years). I asked about the Ph2 and said "sure, bring it in." If we were closer to them, we might have considered it, but her car drives great, the ash level is low, and she has lots of warranty remaining. I'd also be curious to hear what others have experienced, since I agree the paperwork-world and real-world are different.

 

[Cuzoe]

I have VW Care and just had my 40k service done about a month ago, NOS car. At every visit they have told me there's an open recall for 2B and asked if I wanted it done. I'm waiting for 60k (or is it 70k, need to check) to have it done since my car is a manual.

 

[hskrdu]

Yes, 70k for the 6M.

What do you think of your VW Care plan?

 

[Cuzoe]

I got a really good deal on it (and the car). I bought it as soon as the new old stock became available and I think the dealer just wanted to see it gone. It didn't seem that the supply or demand for the fixed buybacks had really picked up.

I've had zero issues with VW Care itself. I show up, they run my VIN and see it, they take the keys and I come back when they say it's ready. Not once have they asked me to pay for anything. On top of that, they have replaced a few things without question (front right wheel bearing, left strut mount/bearing, one of the rear door seals I think). For those items, I didn't even know they needed/were being replaced until I picked the car up and saw them on the invoice, all at no cost.

I have had several issues with different service centers, ranging from work I asked them to do (unrelated to scheduled maintenance) to them not reinstalling little things when doing the scheduled services.
- I have the OEM heavy duty skid plate and they only re-installed the big bolts, leaving all the small black ones out (then did not respond to my emails asking about them)
- When they replaced the strut mount/bearing they didn't reinstall the 3 friction clips for the rain tray (no response to emails asking about them)
- There is some noise coming from the cabin air filter area after my latest service, sounds like a piece of hardware is loose and rolls back when I take off from a stop or brake hard. This was at a service center I had never been to before, scheduled to go back next week
- other issues on work I requested, long stories though.

 

[hskrdu]

Well at least it sounds like it's been a good deal financially, if a little frustrating with lack of attention to detail, or imperfect service. I can never get out of a dealer service without finding an issue, although to be fair, I no longer have a large sample size. Our GSWs have been relatively problem free, with a DPF replacement mentioned above on one and radiator replacement on the other. The rad really annoyed me though, as it was mildly past the warranty, and they wouldn't cover it. Maybe that alone probably would have been worth VW Care? What does it cost, or is it variable by age and year?

 

[Cuzoe]

Yea, lack of attention to detail and no one willing to admit they don't know something while also refusing to follow my explicit (though understandably annoying) instructions. I paid something nutty like $600 bucks for VW care which is right around the cost of the 30k service at the dealer. This was a 0% loan so they were trying to get any right now money they could at time of purchase.

 

[hskrdu]

We have one of the stop-sale GSWs that had the 5k discount and 0%, but I don't think they discussed VW Care at purchase. If we had been able to find another 6M we might have bought two Mk7s at the time, but I my approach to the EA288 was wait and see. It was quite difficult to find a GSW with 6M in the Northeast, plus (she) wanted Silk Blue with black. All boxes were checked after I called about 40 dealers in 8 states, and we actually ended up finding it about and hour from home. $600 doesn't seem bad considering you've gotten good use out of it.

 

[Z85rado]

The day these went back on sale I rounded up the wife and at the time my son and we went to the dealer outside philly in our(her) jetta. They had 3, decided on blue and put down a deposit. She couldn't understand my urgency. While we were there another guy walked in and put a deposit down and promptly walked out, leaving one car left. The car has been to the dealer 3X with so so results and every time they try to buy it back. "I have a list of people that want these". I don't think there is a number that would entice me to part ways w the car at this point. One of these days i'll get a counter but i'm sure I hit 30 lights each way to work and have to shift 200 times!

 

[hskrdu]

The day these went back on sale I rounded up the wife and at the time my son and we went to the dealer outside philly in our(her) jetta. They had 3, decided on blue and put down a deposit. She couldn't understand my urgency. While we were there another guy walked in and put a deposit down and promptly walked out, leaving one car left.

I've heard quite a few stories like this- we found one GSW 6M in Maine that was a possibility, but it was on hold for a guy flying in from Texas, and there was one in NJ that had a deposit on it for someone coming in from out west (can't remember the details). We were a little slow (it was later in the week after reading here of the sales commencing), but still, it was only a few days in and the zero-miles cars stickshifts were going quickly. We passed up on one, as it had obviously sat neglected, and was the wrong color. Most other dealers had been fairly diligent about starting them up, etc., and our dealer had been running them each week, and moving from one storage lot to the other in rotation.

 

[vwexpress]

So, I'm at 60K in my 2015 GSW, DSG, phase 1 emission completed. Should I be aiming at getting the rest of the upgrade? I use this as my work truck, I drive it a lot, like 33,000 a year. Everything seems fine to me, getting 40 mpg with around 700 lbs of tools in it. I change fluids and filters a lot keeping up on the maintenance, don't even know what's involved in the second phase, any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Lightflyer1]

I would wait another year or so if everything is right with your car at the moment. They are obligated to do the change from the court order. Wait as long as you can. If you have any issues with it (emissions/dpf) they will do it anyway. You only have 3 years at your current mileage rate.

 

[troms]

I just had 2b done this week. GSW MK7 manual @ 96k miles. Received a letter from VW several weeks ago. Called the dealer (SF Bay Area) and they ordered the parts and said once they had everything they'd call to schedule me. That's exactly what happened. I notice that I'm posting this over a year since the last post in this thread. I've been looking all around for info (even here) and seem to have found very little.

I LOVE my car, and plan to drive it until I or it dies. I've replaced the latch on the back hatch a couple years ago and nothing else. I am a VW fan, but I have never taken it for service at a dealership. I've never paid money to a dealership for anything other than parts (oil, brake/clutch fluid, wiper fluid, filters, wipers). I have a great sense of relief that the dealership will likely never see my car again, and I really like my local dealer (Dirito Bros), I'd just prefer to do the maintenance myself and go to an independent TDI guy (which there ARE some around here) if it's something I can't manage. Since there have been no problems with my car, I just keep doing the scheduled maintenance.

 

[740GLE]

interesting, when did you have Phase 2A accomplished?

 

[Cuzoe]

I'm waiting to pass 70k for Phase2B. My understanding is you either get Phase 2A or 2B, depending on your mileage/transmission. No matter which you get, that brings your car into "Full Modification Compliance, as opposed to Partial."

Phase 2A includes second nox sensor and software. Phase 2B includes those but also includes mandatory replacement of Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF), Diesel Oxidation Catalyst (DOC), and Selective Catalytic Reduction Converter (SCR) for 6MT's beyond 70k or DSG's beyond 40k.

There is also the following in the VW PDF stating that "If your vehicle has accumulated fewer than 40,000 miles (for automatic transmissions) or 70,000 miles (for manual transmissions) at the time of your Phase 2 update, your car will need to have the Diesel Oxidation Catalyst [DOC] replaced a second time, before it reaches 150,000 miles. We will notify you when it is time to bring your car in for the second catalyst replacement."

I suppose this would be for a car that got 2A (prior to the mileage marks). My concern is this does not mention the DPF or SCR as needing to be replaced before 150k. Which technically means they are not obligated to replace those, so I assume they would not unless you have a fault.

@troms Do you have the invoice/work order for what was replaced?
- I would expect DOC if your car already had Phase 2A and had no faults.
- I would expect Second Nox sensor (and software), DPF, DOC and SCR if you only had Phase 1.
- If your dealer/service center is awesome... DPF, DOC and SCR even if you already had Phase 2A.

I prefer not to leave being awesome up to them, so at some point after 70k I will accept their frequent requests to bring my car in for Phase 2.

 

[x1800MODMY360x]

I prefer not to leave being awesome up to them, so at some point after 70k I will accept their frequent requests to bring my car in for Phase 2.

My sister have a 2015 Passat, I've told her not to do the Phase 2 fix till it's closer to the 150k miles mark. Doing it early is just a waste to the extension of when Phase 2 is completed. Get that extra warranty period!

 

[troms]

interesting, when did you have Phase 2A accomplished?

2a was completed August of 2018 on my vehicle, at 52K miles.

 

[troms]

I'm waiting to pass 70k for Phase2B. My understanding is you either get Phase 2A or 2B, depending on your mileage/transmission. No matter which you get, that brings your car into "Full Modification Compliance, as opposed to Partial."

Phase 2A includes second nox sensor and software. Phase 2B includes those but also includes mandatory replacement of Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF), Diesel Oxidation Catalyst (DOC), and Selective Catalytic Reduction Converter (SCR) for 6MT's beyond 70k or DSG's beyond 40k.

There is also the following in the VW PDF stating that "If your vehicle has accumulated fewer than 40,000 miles (for automatic transmissions) or 70,000 miles (for manual transmissions) at the time of your Phase 2 update, your car will need to have the Diesel Oxidation Catalyst [DOC] replaced a second time, before it reaches 150,000 miles. We will notify you when it is time to bring your car in for the second catalyst replacement."

I suppose this would be for a car that got 2A (prior to the mileage marks). My concern is this does not mention the DPF or SCR as needing to be replaced before 150k. Which technically means they are not obligated to replace those, so I assume they would not unless you have a fault.

@troms Do you have the invoice/work order for what was replaced?
- I would expect DOC if your car already had Phase 2A and had no faults.
- I would expect Second Nox sensor (and software), DPF, DOC and SCR if you only had Phase 1.
- If your dealer/service center is awesome... DPF, DOC and SCR even if you already had Phase 2A.

I prefer not to leave being awesome up to them, so at some point after 70k I will accept their frequent requests to bring my car in for Phase 2.

Hi, I had 2a done August 2018 @ 52k miles. 2b happened September 2022 at 96k miles. I didn't think too deeply about any of this. I just did what the notifications told me, and fortunately I have a very reliable, trustworthy dealership that I'm dealing with (again Dirito Bros. I'm happy to give them a plug because they are solid and they take care of business. Cherry Hill VW, on the other side of the country where I bought the car, would be the opposite end of the spectrum. They did NOT do clean, honest business in my experience. I like to give them an occasional plug, too. I wouldn't buy a replacement gas cap from them if they had the last one). The letters came from VW, not from a dealership.

Here's what my invoice says:

PERFORMED GEN 3 PHASE 2B REPAIR KIT UPDATE / RECALL 23Y8
REPLACED DPF AND ALL GASKETS AND CLAMPS AND SEALS PLUS
BOLTS AND NUTS AND RESET ASH/SOOT LEVEL IN ECM THEN
PERFORMED COOLANT REFILL IN GFF SCAN TOOL

Parts list is LONG. Mostly bolts, gaskets, screws, clips.
Also; CONV. KIT, SENSOR, CORE RETURN
All under warranty.

By the way, I contacted this dealership. My repair rep guy said, "OK, there are a lot of parts. I have to order them, make sure they are complete, then I'll call to schedule you. Our TDI guy has done many of these, and we've got it down to about 6 hours now, so if you can drop your car early in the morning, plan to pick it up the next morning."

That's exactly what happened. They gave me a cool new Tiguan loaner. Very nice little car, but those things sitting up off the ground will never handle like my wagon! Good to check in with what people like in cars these days. Made me realize, drivability and handling are no longer a priority for people. They don't seem to like to drive. They think a Rav4 and a Miata are just different shapes. Don't know what I'm gonna do when I need a new daily driver. Gonna have to find something with a manual transmission. I'll probably just keep rebuilding my Sportwagen until they take it away from me! I digress.....

I hope this info helps. I did my best to give you an accurate, complete account of the invoice and experience. Thanks for enduring my commentary along the way.....