Peloquin 80% Kit on Automatic?

4vdubs

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Location
Western, NC
TDI
Jetta TDI, 2003, Silver
Does anyone have any experience with the Peloquin 80% kit on an automatic or standard TDI? They do not have an actual LSD for the automatic trans but Gary of Peloquin says the 80% kit will work. I plan on autocrossing this year and would like to have the extra traction out of the corners if this kit will work as stated.

Any experiences anyone can relay would be most appreciated.

Thanks!
 

Slave2school

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Location
Angus, Ontario
TDI
99.5 used to at least...
I've not much experience, but...I was in a 1.9td that had one of his 80% kits in it and it makes a HUGE difference on slippery surfaces. He could take off nearly as well as I could (with winters on mine and all seasons on his) in a slippery slushy conditions. nOt much of an experience, but I want one of his 80% kits as well, if you track down the P/N info needed to place an order please post again.
 

l1o9s7t6

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2005
Location
Alaska
TDI
jetta, sedan 2002 blue
I installed one in my 2002 jetta almost a year ago. Same time Installed the urethane bushings on the control arms. I am a hard driver and the 80% kit was well worth the money. the bushings were not as they are already worn out and need replaced.
Before I installed the kit I could spin one tire on take off for about 2 feet, after install I can only squeal both tires.
 

pdxgrease

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
SE Portland
TDI
none
what involved in the install? I'm considering as well considering I have RC4 on my automatic. Is it an easy install?
 

ZapBuzz

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2004
TDI
jetta 2002 teal
Slave2school said:
Got mine today, gets installed later in the week along with an new axle haha.
DONT FORGET YOUR CAMERA DURING THE INSTALL!! :D
 

Occams_Razor

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Location
Dayton, Ohio
TDI
Jetta Wagon, 2003, Reflex Silver
ZapBuzz said:
DONT FORGET YOUR CAMERA DURING THE INSTALL!! :D
I second the motion. I read the instructions on the Peloquin site and didn't quite grasp the concept of what parts to loose and what parts stay. :(
 

Slave2school

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Location
Angus, Ontario
TDI
99.5 used to at least...
No worries, my mechanic did this on his car (mind you an older TD) but...he's got a clue! I'll try to take the nice camera with good flash and all that jazz, so we can have a step by step. It should make a wicked difference this winter. When he took me out last winter with his nearly bald all season tires his pulled out of a parking lot into traffic almost as well as mine with full snow tires on!
 
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Fortuna Wolf

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2006
Location
Wilmington, NC
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI Auto Sedan
I understand how a LSD works, but how does the 80% kit work? What is it exactly? Can it be installed on an 02J transmission as well? (I think that for $100 I could install an 80% kit and then put the LSD in later when I'm rich).
 

Slave2school

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Location
Angus, Ontario
TDI
99.5 used to at least...
According to the website it makes the anti-torque steer effect 80% as opposed to the factory 20%. Ie poor man's "posi track" for the stock diff as I understand it. I think it works by pre loading on the drive shaft some how, maybe we could get Mr. P to explain it for us, but maybe he doesn't want to explain it :p

see the bottom of this page for reactions to the 80% kit http://www.thescirocco.com/peloquin.html

"[SIZE=-1] Gary Peloquin described customers' reactions to the Stage II Diff Upgrade this way:

"The first reaction is that people really notice the difference in the steering response under power. The car steers tighter - on the throttle the car goes toward the apex. The guys who live in the snow and the ice really love the added winter traction". If those descriptions sound to you like the way people describe the action of the high-priced Torsional differential, you're on the right track. Make no mistake, this under $100 easy to install product is no substitute for a $1,000-plus Torsional installation. However, it's a great alternative for the person on a limited budget or the racer in classes that do not allow a full-on limited slip or special differential.
The original pre-load differential was introduced with the second year GTI, back in 1983 on the 1984 models. New, it felt like a limited slip on the rack, but one turn by hand and it was clear that the two or three pounds of preload it offered was of little or no value as a limited slip. It was probably added by the factory to reduce vibration, but that didn't stop the less-scrupulous tuners from touting it as a limited slip, even with only 2%.
This upgrade isn't something new, either. Peloquin's came out with a Stage I version with about 25 pounds of breakaway torque some five years ago, after a solid year of development and Peloquin's-style testing - which is to say severe testing. In February of 1996, Peloquin introduced the Stage II 80% Diff Upgrade with about 85 pounds of breakaway torque, obtained by further modifications to the brass washers and more preload.
The 80% is obtained by the aluminum puck seals being bolted to the differential, and doubles the pressure on the brass shims."

That second paragraph explains it a bit.
[/SIZE]
 
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Slave2school

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Location
Angus, Ontario
TDI
99.5 used to at least...
Ok guys, had the 80% kit installed, works as advertised :D virtually 0 torque steer, I can now actually punch it in a corner and the wheels make the car move instead of smoking off the inside wheel. The car wants to go alot more straight down the rutted up highway too, it is a nice feeeling. Steering seems to be a bit firmer in the corners and you have to be slightly more active while comming out of a corner as the wheel doesn't seem to "snap" back as fast. The car seems to go toward the inside of a corner when nailing it in a turn instead of pushing you out of the corner :) nice bang for the buck.

I tried one wheel in gravel and one on the road, the car goes straight with very little correction needed to the steering wheel, and hauls butt instead of just standing still spining in the gravel. The wheel in the gravel still spins a bit, but not like before.

Here are some install pics, they are pretty much tell the story. You make life easier by removing the entire axle, and my passenger side one had about 6mm of play in the inner CV, so it was time for a change there!

Where do we start...


Remove axle


Axle removed


Remove Circlip/snap ring/whatever you desire to call it along with the sprocket looking wahser


Remove flange


No flange here


Remove seal


Seal removed


to be continued
 

Slave2school

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Location
Angus, Ontario
TDI
99.5 used to at least...
Remove the washer and copper ring



Replace with the copper ring and washer from kit


Insert and seat provided seal


Replace flange


Seat and tighten flange with provided tool


Mechanic curses you now that he's remembered the drivers side will be a #$@#$


Replace the circlip


Insert black "cap" seal and tighten with provided bolt
 
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Slave2school

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Location
Angus, Ontario
TDI
99.5 used to at least...
Nice view of the more fun Driver's side


After reinstallation, burn two even strips in the gravel out in front of the shop :)
 

bradfa

Veteran Member
Joined
May 1, 2005
Location
Rochester, NY
TDI
No TDIs anymore :(
I'm slightly confused as to how this is actually working to create the simulation of basically a less slip diff. What exactly is causing this "pre-load"? I would think something has to be rubbing somewhere as this mod is completely on the exterior of the diff?

If something is rubbing, how long till it wears out?

I find the idea of the 80% kit interesting, and it looks like it could be a very worthwhile upgrade, but I worry about the life of the kit over time, especially on a TDI where it isn't unusual to see 200,000+ miles.

Just curious, not meaning to bash anyone or get anyone upset. If this is answered somewhere else, please let me know. I'm more interested in the technical way this operates than anything right now (aka, I don't have spare cash at this point in time ;)).
 

Slave2school

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Location
Angus, Ontario
TDI
99.5 used to at least...
I am not sure how long it will last, my mechanic drives like a lunatic, (chirps into second all the time) and his kit is intact after a year of abuse. I think it will make a difference as to how much you make the kit work, mostly highway should be pretty easy on things since you are not turning the wheels, nor making them slip independtantly (hopefully!). The bolt you see on the end cap loads the washers, so I guess that is what will wear. It should not harm the differential.

Summary, if my understanding is correct nothing should wear unless you are inducing "slip"
 

Fortuna Wolf

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2006
Location
Wilmington, NC
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI Auto Sedan
I think that the washers should be replaced every 50,000 mi, or after every racing season. How does one chirp into second on an automatic?
 

Slave2school

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Location
Angus, Ontario
TDI
99.5 used to at least...
My mechanic, has a 5spd 1.9TD, sorry for the confusion. I can still leave rubber in first, dont' get me wrong, but it is WAY harder. Before I got the 17" I could chirp the stock size into second though :) I will change the washers as required. Also, I could never chirp into second until the Kerma Line mod was done.
 
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Slave2school

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Location
Angus, Ontario
TDI
99.5 used to at least...
david_594 said:
If only they had something as easy as this for the 02j... :(
that kit would be an instant hit if they had something that was less than the $1000+ 100% TBD for sure. How do you guys drive in the wet with over 150hp and 300ft/lbs?!
 

bradfa

Veteran Member
Joined
May 1, 2005
Location
Rochester, NY
TDI
No TDIs anymore :(
With a light foot? :confused:

As for the wear, I would expect that it needs to always be loading the axel with some resistance, as each side of the diff has no idea what the other side is doing (cause we're not changing out any internals here). This might be why the 50k miles part was mentioned? I'm kind of guessing now.

I'm curious if fuel economy is degraded with this? Hopefully not.

Time to go back to lurking on the Peloquin threads for me now to learn more :cool:
 

Slave2school

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Location
Angus, Ontario
TDI
99.5 used to at least...
No noticable change in fuel economy, still rolls as easily as ever off idle. All I know is that when the wheels are off th eground, you turn one and they both turn the same way now. Peloquin himself: (I think this was up earlier in the thread)

[SIZE=-1] Gary Peloquin described customers' reactions to the Stage II Diff Upgrade this way:

"The first reaction is that people really notice the difference in the steering response under power. The car steers tighter - on the throttle the car goes toward the apex. The guys who live in the snow and the ice really love the added winter traction". If those descriptions sound to you like the way people describe the action of the high-priced Torsional differential, you're on the right track. Make no mistake, this under $100 easy to install product is no substitute for a $1,000-plus Torsional installation. However, it's a great alternative for the person on a limited budget or the racer in classes that do not allow a full-on limited slip or special differential.
The original pre-load differential was introduced with the second year GTI, back in 1983 on the 1984 models. New, it felt like a limited slip on the rack, but one turn by hand and it was clear that the two or three pounds of preload it offered was of little or no value as a limited slip. It was probably added by the factory to reduce vibration, but that didn't stop the less-scrupulous tuners from touting it as a limited slip, even with only 2%.
This upgrade isn't something new, either. Peloquin's came out with a Stage I version with about 25 pounds of breakaway torque some five years ago, after a solid year of development and Peloquin's-style testing - which is to say severe testing. In February of 1996, Peloquin introduced the Stage II 80% Diff Upgrade with about 85 pounds of breakaway torque, obtained by further modifications to the brass washers and more preload.
The 80% is obtained by the aluminum puck seals being bolted to the differential, and doubles the pressure on the brass shims.

[/SIZE]

I see no mention of these wearing out or a recommended replacement period on any of thes ites I have read, not even the peloquin main page. If anyone finds something do post.
 
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