PD100 has variable intake manifold...

[n1das]

Does the rest-of-world PD100 even have it??

I recently had a chance to grab some closeup pics of the intake ports on a BEW PD and an ATD PD aka PD100 engine side by side.

A factory new ATD PD crate engine is on the left and my now dead due to timing belt failure BEW PD engine is on the right:

Notice there's no partitioning on the intake ports in the ATD! IIRC, the ATD engine is aka PD100 in Europe and is what the BEW engine was derived from for the USA. The ATD and BEW engines have the same stock HP and torque ratings. The two engine are supposedly identical and everything bolts right up in place of the other, except for the changes made to create the BEW from the ATD. My new ATD PD engine also now has a PD150 intake on it.

ATD PD head ports: #2 & #3 closeup

BEW PD head ports: #2 & #3 closeup

My BEW to ATD engine swap story is in this thread:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=253995

 

[Pelican18TQA4]

I find it almost funny that I created this thread almost four years ago and every once in a while it pops up again. Interesting to see that the European PD100 doesn't have these ports. The Bentley manual sort of alludes that it may be for performance issues, but I feel that it's for increased EGR flow rates, better mixing of the EGR gasses with intake air and ultimately, reduced NOx output. The European NOx standards wouldn't require something like this, just how the common rail TDIs in Europe don't have the NOx filters like the U.S. ones do.

 

[PDJetta]

I totally agree. The split intake ports are to allow the engine to meet US NOx emissions requirements only.

 

[JB05]

It is my understanding from reading somewhere here that the default has the intake flaps closed and applying vacuum opens them. Last November I disconnected the vacuum hose that goes to the actuator on the IM and connected this hose to another vacuum source giving me full-time vacuum. So now the flaps are always open and I am sucking in less EGR. Somebody correct me if this vacuum theory is wrong, but the nitration and oxidation on a subsequent UOA showed little or no increase. Its good this thread is still alive, and thanx for the above pics.

 

[PDJetta]

The flap position should have no effect on the EGR intake rate. Position would cause better swirl and mixing of the exhaust and air charge (I think the flaps are closed for slow engine speed operation to increase gas flow speeds for better mixing). The EGR valve, throttle plate (next to the EGR valve) and overall manifold (slight) vacuum or pressure (depending on driving conditions) will determine this. The flaps in the intake ports only control the velocity and mixing within the cylinder of the incoming gasses (air and exhaust) due to the port cross section, but the overall flow should be the same regardless of flap position. Smaller port cross section equates to higher gas velocity (but through a smaller openiing) and a larger port allows a slower gas velocity (through a larger opening) through the intake port, but the overall flow per unit of time should be the same.

--Nate

 

[darkhorse]

Very instructive but I'm still confused. Does the variable intake do anything when the EGR is blocked?

 

[milehighassassin]

Very instructive but I'm still confused. Does the variable intake do anything when the EGR is blocked?

It will still function as "variable". If it were me and kinda what I ended up doing.

-Unplug the vacuum line from the actuator to the variable intake
-Lock the variable intake open
-block off the EGR (if it hasn't been done yet)
-Remove the EGR cooler as well as block off the vacuum line to the actuator on the EGR cooler.


I actually removed the actuators to both the EGR and Variable intake mani.

BTW, you CANNOT plug the vacuum lines from the EGR Cooler actuator and the Variable intake actuator together. They both come from the N75 but they run at different times. I tried it assuming they were both under vacuum at the same time. Well they are not and it caused boost problems (too little boost, and sporadic).

 

[darkhorse]

Thanks milehigh. That is helpful information.

 

[PDJetta]

Very instructive but I'm still confused. Does the variable intake do anything when the EGR is blocked?

I think it will still work with the EGR blocked. I wish I knew if it were open or closed without vacuum applied to the actuating diaphragm. If open (to allow maximum breathing), I would just unplug the vacuum line and stick a screw in the line.

Under light load operation the flaps are closed to increase the flow in the manifold, when EGR flow is the highest, to cut down on intake clogging and to mix the exhaust better. But, if you have eliminated the EGR flow, you should have the flaps open all the time.

--Nate

 

[darkhorse]

Thank you Nate. Now if I have it right, the small runners close at light load & low rpm. That they are coordinated with the ERG. Their purpose is Nox reduction for US EPA certification. With the ERG disabled, there is no purpose for them. With that in mind I'm again leaning toward a PD 150 manifold. Now if one were to use a FMIC, would a 130 work better? Pardon my ignorance, but I'm new here & I get confused easily.

 

[darkhorse]

I just heard from KERMA that the VIM is disabled with tuning. Kool! That makes it easy.

 

[PDJetta]

Jeff, with Rocket Chip says that too!

--Nate

 

[darkhorse]

Jeff, with Rocket Chip says that too!

--Nate

Great news! Tuners can make the split mani stay open so theres no big deal using a stock mani but the 150 swap will get a lot of stuff out of the airway. I'll look into getting one.

 

[TDI'ed]

Hey guys a few questions. I am tuned and have been told I will not get a cel from deleting the egr etc. At the moment i don't have the delete kit so I thought I'd just unplug the egr electrically for the time being (I assume this keeps the egr shut/blocked. I've read (briefly) about people romoving a flapper of some kind and am assuming you are basically accomplishing the same thing by holding it open with the zip ties? Have you found this smoothed your boost at all? I find under partial throttle I get a two step increase in boost; first is at 2000rpm and second is around 2500rpm. Should I unplug the solenoid on the egr cooler side as well? Thanks for the questions... Quite hard to find info on the bew engine.

 

[milehighassassin]

Why don't you just have Charlie (Kerma) remove the CEL with the Tune? You should also get a block-off kit. They are cheap and easy to do. I would leave everything plugged in.

 

[TDI'ed]

I don't have a cel. Charlie has basically deleted the egr; I'd rather unplug it for now so that I know it's not opening (I assume it is similar to the alh in that the default position is closed). In terms of the variable manifold will unplugging the diaphragm under the egr and holing the linkage open keep the flaps held in the wide open position? Are these flaps associated with the anti shudder valve? Does unplugging the vacuum from the egr cooler close the egr cooler from taking in exhaust? I'll definitely be doing the blockoff kit... Did you get yours from dieselgeek?

 

[JB05]

On my 05 Golf I disconnected and plugged the hose that goes to the vacuum solenoid, and then I ran an after market vacuum hose from the actuator on the variable intake flaps to a tee I installed coming off the tandum pump. I will have to go out and have another look as its been a while. What this does is keep the flaps open all the time while the engine is running and sometime after shut down. I did not have to cut or splice any existing hoses. I did this mod in an attempt to decrease the flow of EGR. My UOA's have shown an improvement in soot levels. I'm anxious to see what the inside of my IM looks like. Before this mod it was pretty gooey and my EGR was all caked up.

 

[TDI'ed]

Thanks for the reply.. good idea. After I unplugged the EGR i did end up getting a cel so I am not sure it is completely deleted.. I am going to email Charlie and ask.

 

[darkhorse]

Thanks for the reply.. good idea. After I unplugged the EGR i did end up getting a cel so I am not sure it is completely deleted.. I am going to email Charlie and ask.

Some of the BEW motors have unusual software that Charlie is just learning. It took him 2 tries to get my CEL off with the KP 39 tune & he's going to try a second time on my K3B tune.

 

[DanG144]

Even with it tuned off and blanked off completely, it probably still has to be plugged in, remain connected, in order to prevent a CEL.

And the EGR parks just off of closed. Cracked open to prevent sticking closed. So if you unplug it you will probably get more soot than if you just left it plugged in (especially if it is tuned closed.)

 

[Sootman]

I just spotted this thread. Good read for us PD owners.

 

[Jon Fernandes]

So, is it possible to delete the EGR system on a PD100 motor? From my understanding, I would need to clear the CEL with vagcom? Im a bit lost on the topic.

 

[darkhorse]

I removed the manifold & cooler parts first with the vacuum solenoids just plugged. Charlie got the CEL light off with no codes for that set up. When I removed the solenoids I got the light & codes back.

 

[Jon Fernandes]

Will a normal code reader clear the codes?

 

[milehighassassin]

Yes you can clear the code with Vag-Com

Yes you can delete the CEL with tuning. Even if you have it deleted I would recommend you leave the electronics plugged in. The tuning is designed to not cause a CEL, it is not designed to not see the hardware.

I have my CEL deleted with my tuning. I also have a block off plate. I actually bought one a(on the exhaust mani) and made one for the intake/egr actuator.

 

[TDI'ed]

Ok thanks for the feedback guys, I've plugged it back in. What have you done for the vacuum/diaphragm beneath the EGR? Have you just unplugged it from the vacuum source? It is my understanding that if you did this that the valve is not in the fully open position (needs vacuum to attain this position)? Out of curiousity have you noticed a smoother spool after having done this? I noticed my car lacked a bit of power with the EGR unplugged BUT the spool was smooth from 2000 vs when its plugged in I get what feels like fully open boost after 2500 rpm.. keep in mind I am speaking of this situation only under partial throttle.. under WOT I get smooth boost from 2000. Since I rarely am under WOT in city driving I am hoping to eliminate the staggered feeling in the boost. ALH's are so much more straight forward...

 

[Dunno513]

Will the NARFmod work on PD vehicles?

 

[n1das]

Thanks Birdman353 for the heads-up on the additional pics. After seeing the pics of the complete manifold off the car, it looks an awful lot like a PD150 intake manifold. See below:

PD100

PD150

Of course, the PD100 manifold has the variable part, but overall the intake runners appear to be the same on both manifolds.

Something else I noticed is that the the default position of the variable intake has the small ports closed:

Perhaps we could do some testing with the vacuum actuator unplugged so it leaves the smaller ports blocked, and then some testing with constant vacuum applied to leave the smaller ports completely open??

*PD150 pics are courtesy of RWDdiesel*

Interesting pics, particularly the top pic with the PD100 manifold. My ATD PD100 (crate engine) now in my 05 PD JWagen came with an ALH-like intake manifold. The ATD head is ported like an ALH TDI head (no split in each intake port). (Original BEW engine *RIP* due to TB failure last July.)

MrChill was going to install a PD150 IM on the ATD but I had to postpone that due to the need to have the EGR/ASV in place and working to have no CELs to passs NH state inspection. So I'm back to using my BEW IM on the ATD for now.

With the 2-piece IM all by itself with no actuator installed (as in pic above), it defaults to the closed position. But with the vacuum actuator installed, it is held OPEN by the actuator spring when no vacuum is applied. The default position therefore with everything installed is in the OPEN position. All you have to do to disable the actuator and leave it in the open position all the time is unplug the actuator vacuum hose and plug it with a golf tee. EASY!

MrChill did this to my BEW IM this morning on my ATD PD100 since we were in there to fix a cracked EGR cooler pipe. As for performance with the BEW IM now wide open all the time, it feels like I've got the PD150 IM in there! I've also got NO CELs due to the change. AFAIK, the ECU doesn't know the 2-piece actuator is disabled because it's not monitored by the ECU. Time will tell if I get any CELs because of this.

 

[n1das]

Ok thanks for the feedback guys, I've plugged it back in. What have you done for the vacuum/diaphragm beneath the EGR? Have you just unplugged it from the vacuum source? It is my understanding that if you did this that the valve is not in the fully open position (needs vacuum to attain this position)? Out of curiousity have you noticed a smoother spool after having done this? I noticed my car lacked a bit of power with the EGR unplugged BUT the spool was smooth from 2000 vs when its plugged in I get what feels like fully open boost after 2500 rpm.. keep in mind I am speaking of this situation only under partial throttle.. under WOT I get smooth boost from 2000. Since I rarely am under WOT in city driving I am hoping to eliminate the staggered feeling in the boost. ALH's are so much more straight forward...

I've noticed exactly the same staggering feeling you described when my IM actuator was plugged in (i.e., vacuum line connected). I noticed no difference with the EGR/ASV cable plugged in or unplugged. The vacuum actuator on the IM made a huge difference though.

With my 2-piece IM actuator plugged in, I noticed a smoother spool after 2500 RPM when accelerating normally (not WOT). I would hear my VNT-17/22 spooling up while accelerating to 2500 RPM then I'd feel a brief "kick" of power right when the IM goes fully open. With the vacuum hose unplugged from the actuator and plugged with a golf tee, it's smooth spooling all the time and is performing better below 2500 RPM. Time will tell what it does to MPGs (probably better). I can definitely feel a power increase with the IM open all the time. Overall driveability is way improved too.

MrChill and I played with an IM assembly to make sure we did the right thing. We weren't sure if the default position with no vacuum applied to the actuator was open or closed. The actuator has a strong enough spring to keep the IM fully open when no vacuum is applied, so no need to worry. This is the condition it normally operates under while at WOT.

Vacuum appears to be applied to CLOSE the smaller ports on the IM. With no vacuum applied, it's fully OPEN all the time. This makes modding really simple: Unplug the vacuum hose to the actuator and plug the end of the hose with a golf tee or something similar. No need to do anything with any other vacuum lines.

Good luck.

 

[TDI'ed]

Awesome, this post really cleared things up for me. So the actuator to unplug is the one immediately below the EGR correct? I'll do this tomorrow and see my results. I wasn't able to see those pictures before.. very beneficial. When I was messing with the switch manually the spring did feel quite strong. So if this is correct then those who have held there linkages 'open' with zip ties have in effect been closing off the smaller ports?