PD-TDI (2004+) Oil Info & Analyses (Post #1 = FAQ)

[04Wagon]

PD Oil Analysis Thread

No 506.01 oil analysis as of yet?

 

[SUNRG]

PD Oil Analysis Thread

++ Click here to view a spreadsheet with all PD UOAs, and newly added 505.01 & 506.01 UOAs ++

Motul 506.01 VOA

55749 = Motul 506.01 0w-30 UOA, Fuel: 40% winter D2, 60% B60
7495 = Castrol 505.01 5w-40 UOA, Fuel: 95% B100

There were a few factors that may have effected the wear metal comparison between this 506.01 UOA and my previous 505.01 UOA.

Factors that may have contributed to a wear metal increase were:
<ul type="square">[*] Percentage of BioDiesel use: 40% winter D2 / 60% B60 vs 95% B100
[*] Italian Tune Ups: 6 to 8 runs where I firmly accelorated past 110mph vs I don't recall any 100+ runs during the previous OCI [/list] Factors that may have contributed to a wear metal decrease were: <ul type="square">[*] theoretically an oil that provides superior wear protection
[*] engine is 5k further along the break-in process
[*] much more highway driving, and extended 60mph highway driving en route to 1000 mile club (e.g. 1000+ miles / tank of fuel ) [/list]Fuel Economy:<ul type="square">[*] 505.01 = 41.42mpg
[*] 506.01 = 52.05mpg
506.01 definitely increased fuel economy in the neighborhood of 10+%, but the 25.6% increase indicated by these numbers is due to the much greater percentage of highway miles during the 506.01 OCI.[/list]An unexpected result is that even though the 506.01 sample was subjected to relatively dirty fuel (higher sulfur D2 as opposed to the less than 100ppm sulfur B100 for the 505.01), its Soot level is the lowest I've seen for a PD using just and OEM oil filter at 0.12%.

 

[dieseldorf]

PD Oil Analysis Thread

Fuel Economy:<ul type="square">[*] 505.01 = 41.42mpg
[*] 506.01 = 52.05mpg [/list]
506.01 definitely increased fuel economy in the neighborhood of 10+%, but the 25.6% increase indicated by these numbers is due to the much greater percentage of highway miles during the 506.01 OCI.

An unexpected result is that even though the 506.01 sample was subjected to relatively dirty fuel (higher sulfur D2 as opposed to the less than 100ppm sulfur B100 for the 505.01), its Soot level is the lowest I've seen for a PD using just and OEM oil filter at 0.12%.

MG !

 

[PDJetta]

PD Oil Analysis Thread

That's incredible! Is the 506.01 safe to use? Does it void the warranty?

--Nate

 

[SUNRG]

PD Oil Analysis Thread

Is the 506.01 safe to use?

IMO - Yes.

Does it void the warranty?

According to my dealer - No. Check with your service manager.

Below is one of dieseldorf's images, I don't know the source:

 

[dieseldorf]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

FWIW: someone reported that VoC said it's OK to use the 506.01 oil as long as you do not exceed 10k mile ODIs or 1 year --whichever comes first.

Someone asked VWoA about the 506.01 and they ....well....you know...they didn't know what it was.

 

[PDJetta]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

0W-30, how thin is that?

--Nate

 

[dieseldorf]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

0W-30, how thin is that?

ELF 506.01:


SG at 15°C 856
Kinematic viscosity at 100°C mm²/s 9.6
Viscosity number - 167
Dynamic viscosity at – 35°C mPa.s (cp) 6200
Open vessel flash point °C 223
Pour point °C -39
Alkalinity mg KOH/g 10.1

 

[dubvulture]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

FWIW: someone reported that VoC said it's OK to use the 506.01 oil as long as you do not exceed 10k mile ODIs or 1 year --whichever comes first.

Someone asked VWoA about the 506.01 and they ....well....you know...they didn't know what it was.

Dorf, you have got to get some t-shirts made with those service pics on them. They are too freakin' funny! Come up with a witty caption and you could sell them. Proceeds to help out Fred's, of course.

 

[04Wagon]

PD Oil Analysis Thread

Sunrg Since you are draining the Motul 506.01 with only 5k, can we assum you are not happy with the outcome? Will you be running the ELF 506.01 and testing?

I'm draining this oil tonight and filling with a 505.01 oil to continue the head-to-head testing of these two specs in the same vehicle.

From earlier posts:

* If the 5k 506.01 UOA does not look good I will drain and replace with 505.01.
** If the 10k 506.01 UOA looks better than the 5k 505.01 UOA, I will keep the 506.01 in until 15k.

 

[SUNRG]

PD Oil Analysis Thread *DELETED* *DELETED*

Post deleted by SUNRG

 

[SUNRG]

PD Oil Analysis Thread

<font color="red"> This changes everything! </font>

The spectrochemical re-analysis of the Motul 506.01 just came back and the three wear metal levels that were relatively high (when compared to other PD UOAs) are all LOW in the newly re-run spectrochemical analysis: <ul type="square">Cr = 1, Pb = 2, Sn = 0[/list]
Even though I had qualified my original concerns (statistically/scientifically one UOA is nearly meaningless), this re-test on the same sample has 1) removed any 506.01 concerns that I may have had and 2) clearly demonstrated why we should not read too much into a single UOA.

To clarify, the re-tested sample analysis results are completely in-line with the 506.01 claims. Better fuel economy, excellent protection and improved performance with outstanding soot control.

I've updated, edited and removed my earlier posts that discussed the initial UOA result.

 

[dieseldorf]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

that's good news.

[scratching head]It makes me wonder why the initial results were off that much[/scratching head]

 

[SUNRG]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Just one last quick announcement...

We have a new oil entering our PD Oil Analsis study: <ul type="square">PENTOSYNTH Synthetic OIL 5W-40 (TS) SJ/CF[/list]

This oil can be purchased through the TDIclub's own Danix from the www.TDIparts.com website, at very competitve pricing.

MSDS - PENTOSYNTH Synthetic OIL 5W-40 (TS) SJ/CF

Look for VOA lab results shortly and at least two UOAs to follow.

 

[SUNRG]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

The Pentosynth TS arrived today. It's nice to see the number of quality oil choices for PDs increase

A sample for VOA will be sent to the lab tomorrow.

 

[SUNRG]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Nice cap design for 5L container:

The VOA sample that's leaving for the lab today:

 

[SUNRG]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Here's a little runway of all the VOA samples, in case anyone wants to select their oil on looks alone

 

[dieseldorf]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Nice cap design for 5L container:

I've always credited the French (MOTUL) for that clever design.

very handy!

 

[Khal]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Motul motorcycle oil had the same spout

 

[DPM]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Most oil brands over here have that spout.

 

[SUNRG]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Sorry for my cap ignorance

this is my first ever 5L container of oil.

I don't think gallon or 5 quart containers of oil sold in the US come with cool spouts, do they? The last time I bought a gallon jug of Mobil 1 it had a standard twist off top, and it was not nearly as easy to pour precisely as with this cool euro top.

 

[DrewD]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Got my results in. Everything looks good except the oil sheared down considerably in viscosity.

Comments? Is 48.5 SUS at 210 deg F a 20 weight viscosity? If so, that could probably explain the FE levels.

 

[SUNRG]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

The 33ppm Fe "Blackstone Universal Average" equates to 4.34ppm / 1000 miles. Your Fe wear rate was 4.2ppm / 1000 miles which is the lowest of the six PD UOAs we have from engines with 10 to 20k on the ODO.

Your UOA looks good from a wear metal perspective. I've added your result to the spreadsheet and you can see that your ppm / 1000 miles values are all below the avaerages we have so far.

I need a little more data to complete all fields: <ul type="square"> [*]MPG Average - this is a new column I've added to the spreadsheet so we can begin to assess how different oils effect fuel economy
[*]what oil did you use
[*]what model is your car [/list]the viscosity does seem low, but the oil still protected better than the others we have data on, and slightly better than the Blackstone Universal Average, so I would not be concerned. It will be interesting to learn what oil this was.

Thanks for contributing this UOA and I hope you'll do another at 30k!

Cheers!

 

[SUNRG]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Update: the first post of this thread now contains data sheets for all oils being tested, links to information on oil analysis from www.bobistheoilguy.com, the Blackstone and Oil Analyzers websites, <u>and</u> articles and links to threads containing loads of information regarding PD oils. Click here to have a look! If you are not familiar with oil analysis or the PD oil specifications, a read through this thread and links will bring you right up to speed

Cheers!

 

[SUNRG]

PD Oil Information & Analysis

Below are UOAs from whitedog's TDI: Factory Fill at 5k, Castrol 505.01 at ~10k (5k on oil).

The Vat100c range for 40 weight oils is 12.5-16.3cSt - VOA for this oil is 13.26 (toward the lighter end of the range). The first sample (Factory Fill) was within range at 12.89, but the second sample (Castrol 505.01) was 10.89, which is in the 30 weight range (9.3-12.4cSt).

This UOA is the 5th of 9 Castrol 505.01 UOAs where the used sample tested as a 30 weight or below, and one was borderline 30/40 weight. 4 tested as 30 weight at or before 5k miles and one was at 20 weight by 10k. 1 of 5 Motul 505.01 UOA samples tested as 30 weight. We only have two 10k ELF UOAs (bypass filtered) and they were both nearly unchanged in viscosity after 10k of use at 14.4 and 14.5 respectively (VOA = 14.8). I have a 5k ELF 505.01 sample at the lab now that should be back any day.

I've emailed and called (left a message) with Castrol to get their perspective on this.

<font color="red">Until and unless new information surfaces regarding Castrol 505.01, and in light of the other high quality choices available, I personally recommend PD owners use another 505.01 [ELF Excellium DID, Motul 505.01, or PentosynthTS].</font>

4/8 0:48am Correction: the "Castrol sheared to 20 weight during a 10k OCI" turned out to be a typo by Blackstone. SUS WAS 68.2 which is in the 40 weight viscosity range.

4 of 6 - 5k UOAs tested as 30 weight
1 of 1 - 6.7k UOAs tested as borderline 30/40 weight
2 of 2 - 10k UOAs tested as 40 weight

 

[dieseldorf]

PD Oil Information & Analysis

Hmmm, i wonder if that pooch could have intentionally skewed the test by tinkering with the sample

WOOF !


I've always said the Castrol products were the barking, growling mutts of litter - - can't even trust 'em for 10k miles

 

[Dan_Ruddock]

PD Oil Information & Analysis

Castrol's ads have always insulted my intelligence. Castrol syntec out performs the leading conventional motor oil as the smoke is bellowing out of one of two cars. Duh I would hope so. Dan

 

[whitedog]

PD Oil Information & Analysis

Well, that second sample was a little bit yellow. I was hoping they could test for the stuff causeing her kidney stones.

 

[whitedog]

PD Oil Information & Analysis

OK, so I'll resample at 15,000 without a drain&fill and see what the results are. If they show below 13 I'll drop the Castrol.

 

[SUNRG]

PD Oil Information & Analysis

that seems like a reasonable plan.

it's important to note that the Castrol does seem to still "work" even with reduced viscosity (relatively good TBNs and average wear metals) but if an oil is unable to maintain its viscosity during the service interval then physically, it cannot endure the stress it's being exposed to.

ideally, we'd like to use an oil that is near it's VOA viscosity after 10k, as that would be one indicator that it <u>can</u> physically handle PD engine stress.