PD-TDI (2004+) Oil Info & Analyses (Post #1 = FAQ)

[Davin]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

There are a few things that should be considered. This was the only Passat UOA - heavier vehicle and more horsepower & torque. or, tomo366's the high wear metals could be the karmic result of flaming newbies

Also, keep in mind that it's a different engine! 2.0L TDI vs 1.9L. So some differences in wear metals would definitely be expected.

 

[challenger]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Slight change of plans for me my Motul supplier said it was on back order and since I am doing my oil change SAT. the 22nd I had ELF Excellium DID 5w-40 overnighted to do the change. So in a couple of months I will have a UOA of ELF 505.01. I am planning on doing a UOA at 5k and 10k. I will post the results when I get them for the Castrol that's in there now and the ELF that's going in!!

 

[SUNRG]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Lubro-Moly's Diesel High Tech 5w-40 505.01 is available in Cananda:
604-232-3396
http://www.hopefungautoparts.com/LubroMoly.htm

LubroMoly also has a Synthoil Longtime Plus 0w-30 506.01

I spoke with the importer for Lubro-Moly in California 562-597-5519. The following is my attempt to accurately report what he (I didn't get his name) said:

He said he's "confident the Lubro-Moly 505.01 oil is superior to the Castrol, Motul and Elf" and added "there's no comparison between the Lubro-Moly additive package their competitors".

He predicted that we would not find a significant difference between any of the 505.01 oils in UOAs. He said we would notice an immediate difference in the way the vehicle sounds using Lubro-Moly but that other benefits would not be recognized in the short term.

If you have further questions I recommend giving the guy a call or visiting the Liqui-Moly website.

I have enough 505.01 and 506.01 to test in our TDIs for the next two years - but if anyone is interested in trying the Lubro-Moly, testing it and posting the results that'd be great.

 

[BuckyBadger]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Wow!
I am a newbie here. Surely, you guys know about engine lubricants

!!! I've learned so much about oils by reading the forum. While I was doing some research last night, I came cross this web, http://www.turbofrogperformance.com They are authorized MOTUL and ELF dealer. They don't usually stock Motul 505.01, 506.01, and Elf Excellium DID 5w-40. However, they replied back to me that they would have them if there is enough demand.
Now I am hooked. Thanks, TDI Club! I can't stop reading about engine lubricants

 

[spicy_red]

PD Oil Analysis Thread

SUNRG: I just sent a Motul sample in. 33k + change on the engine, bang on 8k on the oil. Will advise when it is in.
Cheers

 

[SUNRG]

PD Oil Analysis Thread

Great! Mike_04GolfTDI just sent in some Motul for 10k analysis too.

is adding TBN an option with your lab? i ask because your engine is still relatively new, which means wear metals should continue to steadily decrease, and since you've switched oils Castrol to Motul, if wear metals drop it's possibly unrelated to the Castrol to Motul switch. if your wear metals unexpectedly climb, that would not bode well for the Motul.

however, TBN is one of the values that <u>are</u> telling even in young engines.

i think challenger and skins2k5tdi may have recently sent samples to the labs too - so we may have a good bit of new data to enjoy in the next couple weeks.

cheers!

 

[spicy_red]

PD Oil Analysis Thread

TBN is an option, didn't do it.

 

[spicy_red]

PD Oil Analysis Thread

Here it is... oil sample # 4: http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/1323857680_4WD03894_N030-35028-0264.PDF

This is Motul 505.01 - ran it for 8000km bang on, car has 33,410kms. It is the first time Motul was used, the previous three samples are Castrol 505.01. Refilled w. Motul 505.01 again.

Didn't get a good look at it yet, but wazzap with the copper? Will need to get them some fresh oil as well, I guess it was their first time analyzing this stuff.

 

[AndyH]

PD Oil Analysis Thread

Spicy,
Some additive packages will leach copper from plumbing. This will be below a micron and won't cause damage even in high concentrations. There's no other sign of wear, so not a 'wear metal' problem.

The spectrum for ester base oil is very similar to water. Labs not used to synthetics, or some synthetic formulas, will have trouble with the infrared analysis. They should be able to calibrate with a VOA and should re-run your test for free.

 

[Mike_04GolfTDI]

PD Oil Analysis Thread

Here are my oil analysis results. Oil is Motul 505.01 with 16,000km on it. Vehicle mileage is 31,387km.

 

[SUNRG]

PD Oil Analysis Thread

this is a good UOA. wear metals look fine. i bet the iron will be under 40ppm on your next 10k interval.

a great number is the V @ 100C. the Motul 505.01 VOA was 13.55, your oil viscosity after 10k was still 13.5, that's excellent.

mike and spicy, maybe it'd be worthwhile to consider Oil Analyzers, Inc.. for around $15 USD, you get all the info you're currently getting plus TBN and no infared problems...

thanks for posting this data. i'll add both of your UOAs when I return to VA next week.

cheers!

 

[SUNRG]

PD Oil Analysis Thread

spicy - you're oil looks great. i personally think you should go to 16000 kilometer intervals. IMO the oil is too good after 8k (km) to pull it out and recycle. mike's motul still looked good after 16k. and, since both of your engine's are still young, the UOAs are only going to get better.

however, i'd be more confident making this recommendation with TBN and infared data.

cheers!

 

[Mike_04GolfTDI]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

I'd like to stick with Finning because I live close to one of their dealerships and it's very convenient for me.

Next time I do this I'm going to provide them with a sample of new oil so they can do the infrared analysis. (as they suggest) The annoying thing is I asked the guy at the parts counter where I bought the kit if I should provide a sample of new oil and he didn't think so. Otherwise I would have. I have to remember to trust my instincts as they have served me well over the years!

I almost want to drive more so I can get to my next oil change quicker and do this again!

 

[spicy_red]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

I'd like to stick with Finning because

Me too... just guess why (I have referred to Finning MANY a time on these forums... cough, cough, wink, wink)

I'll get them a virgin sample, don't worry about it.

 

[BIGBUS]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

For those questioning high copper content, a sample of your unused oil is really necessary for the lab to see if copper has grown...reason being refiners (read oil mixers) often use a big hit of copper to "quiet" the clanging in diesels. If Motul used a considerably high copper additive as compared to Castrol, the copper content would necessarily be higher. Unless you can get one of those guys to tell you what additive package they're using, you need to send a sample of unused oil.
BTW, all these guys buy additives from about three major suppliers and design their own additive packages to meet whatever requirements they like, and I'm pretty sure the Castrol synthetic is a hydrocracked oil with strong additive package rather than a true synthetic.
Buster

 

[SUNRG]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

since my Golf was the NA test for the Motul 506 01, and 506 01 oils claim up to a 10% fuel efficiency increase, i just thought i'd report that my Motul 506 01 lubed Golf just became the first PD in the 1000 mile club.

with only 11k on the vehicle, it may also be the youngest A4 ever in the 1000 mile club.

it appears the Motul 506 01 does significantly improve fuel economy. click here for details

 

[Khal]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

I currently am running in some ELF 505.01 and I will be changing it in about 2 weeks.

If you gents can be so kind as to let me know what the best way for me to send it in for analysis.

Keep in mind I am in Canuk land (Toronto, Ontario)

 

[Ferrari]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Khal,

WearCheck Canada Inc.
4161 Sladeview Cresc. Unit 11
Mississauga, ON
L5L 5R3

ph 905-569-8600
fax 905-569-8605

They are close to QEW/Winston Churchill

 

[SUNRG]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

If TBN is an option I'd recommend it, and I'd bring them an unused sample of the oil too.

Good luck and I look forward to seeing your results! Yours will be our first Elf 505.01 UOA!

 

[Khal]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

I have 15K (kms) on the car right now and ELF has been in there since 8k.

Does 40$ sound reasonable for the analysis?

 

[spicy_red]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

no, $40 is way too much. Try contact Toromont (toromont.ca)

 

[SUNRG]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

here's the updated spreadsheet:
http://sustainablepower.net/TDI/OA/PD_Oil_Analysis_Spreadsheet.mht

it includes spicy and mike's new UOAs, and i've also added: <ul type="square">ppm/1000miles values for every UOA
average ppm/1000 values for all vehicle with less than 10k, more than 10k, running PetroD and running BioD [/list]
the ppm/1000 miles values are much more telling than the bare ppm values.

once we get more data i'll add ppm/1000mile comparisons between Motul, Castrol, Elf, 505.01 and 506.01. that's when things will begin to get very interesting.

cheers!

 

[iamstuffed]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

This may be related to my only owning a Apple Powerbook, but it wasn't at all obvious how to open the .mht file. I was eventually able to open it in Microsoft Word, not Excel (I have Office 2003). Could you perhaps save it as an xls file instead of the .mht? It seems like you are using Office to save it anyhow so it shouldn't be any harder.

I'm not sure if you need it but I could do an analysis on my oil whenever I change it. I have 2k on my 2005 Golf TDI, and that is after a little less than a month of ownership.

Thanks

 

[SUNRG]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

http://sustainablepower.net/TDI/OA/PD_Oil_Analysis_Spreadsheet.htm

the link above is the spreadsheet saved as a common webpage (htm). mht files are supposed to be single-file webpages, but they don't seem to work in everyone's browsers.

iamstuffed - it'd be great if you could have your oil analyzed, the results would definitely help our data analysis. the first post in this thread has all the info about getting an analysis kit. just click the link in my signature.

cheers!

 

[jddaigle]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Wow, the most impressive thing to me is how much lower the wear metals are for the car using Biodiesel, even compared to cars with similar vehicle mileage using the same oil and OCIs. I had no idea BioD could have such an effect on engine wear.

 

[SUNRG]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

It does look impressive, but it's just one BioD UOA. We need more data, a lot more, before we can firmly establish a correlation between BioD use and reduced UOA wear metals.

Also, there are a lot of types of BioD, and I don't know how virgin soy BioD compares to WVO and canola (rapeseed) BioDs.

I'm confident ASTM spec. BioD lubricates better, has much less sulfur and much higher cetane than LS(petro)D. I plan to use B50 to B100 for the life of our PDs, so between our TDIs and others we will eventually compile <u>a lot</u> of BioD UOA data.

 

[SUNRG]

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

in another thread someone contrasted PD UOAs with UOAs from earlier TDIs but did not reference specific data. i've added to the initial post of this thread a link to

42 - TDI UOAs from BITOG

there are also tons of UOAs here at Fred's. it'd be great if we could put them all in one place with a link to them too.

all the UOA data we have for PDs are from nearly new cars: 5 to 30k miles. the UOAs from BITOG are from TDIs with a wide variety of ODO readings.

it'd be great if someone had the energy to divide out all the UOA wear metal data into ppm/1000 miles, then group that data into ODO categories [under 10k, 10-20k, 20-40k, 40-80k, 80-120k, etc.] and then come up with average wear metal numbers for TDIs in those mileage ranges.

and then compare different oil UOAs [D1, Amsoil, Castrol, 5w-40, 0w-30, etc.] for TDIs in the various mileage ranges.

this is where we're headed with this PD Oil Analysis Thread, but i don't have in me to do this for all the archived data.

cheers!

 

[TDI66]

PD Oil Analysis Thread

This is very interesting stuff. It's been 3 weeks since the last post. Has it been moved to another thread. I'm getting a new 05 Jetta wagon soon (PD) and would love to know some more results from the testing.

Keep up the good work.

 

[SUNRG]

PD Oil Analysis Thread

This is very interesting stuff. It's been 3 weeks since the last post. Has it been moved to another thread. I'm getting a new 05 Jetta wagon soon (PD) and would love to know some more results from the testing.

Keep up the good work.

Congrats on your new PD! This thread sort of re-activates whenever a new UOA comes in, then slides into obscurity, then re-emerges...

I sent a used 506.01 oil sample to the lab last week and should have a new analysis to post soon.

 

[yamsTDi]

PD Oil Analysis Thread

Here ya go!