PD-TDI (2004+) Oil Info & Analyses (Post #1 = FAQ)

SUNRG · Dec 5, 2004

What are PD oils?
PD = Pumpe Duse or the Unit Injector System found on 2004 model year and later TDIs in North America (2000 model year and later in the EU). PD Oils are oils that have been extensively tested by VW in Wolfsburg and approved for use in PD-TDI engines.

[Note: The owner's manual in many if not all 2004, 2005 & 2006 Golf TDIs (sold in the US) incorrectly specifies 505.00 oil. The engine depicted in the owner's manual is also incorrect - the 1.9L/90hp TDI is pictured, but 2004-2006 Golfs have 1.9L/100hp PD-TDI engines. TSB: page 1, page 2]

The three current VWAG PD-TDI approved specifications are:
[click on the specification number below for the most current list of all oils certified by VW to meet that specification]

505.01 - semi-synthetic, fixed drain interval - 10k OCIs, Aug05 50501 TSB
506.01 - full-synthetic, fuel economy optimizing, extended service interval - up to 31k or 2 year OCIs
507.00 - full-synthetic, low SAPS / diesel particulate filter compatible, fuel economy improving, extended service interval

[Note: to maintain your VWoA warranty, during the warranty period you must adhere to the oil change intervals specified in your owner's manual - even if you choose to use an oil that is capable of extended service intervals (ESI). ESI equipped TDIs come stock with sensors and a dashboard display that tells drivers when to change their oil based on a number of factors. North American TDIs are not yet sold with this ESI sensor/display option - but you can install ESI or FSI (flexible service interval) components yourself. Without an ESI sensor/display, extended oil change intervals should only be attempted after the warranty has expired and with the help of lab used oil analyses.]

Where can I get PD Oils?
Currently, from VW and Audi dealerships and some shops selling Motul, Elf, Pentosin, Quaker State or Lubro-Moly products. Many shops that carry products made by these manufacturers will not stock PD Oils - but may have the ability to special order them for you. The great news is that top-shelf PD Oils are never more than a few mouse clicks away. See the bottom of this post for a partial list of PD Oil Sources.

What's PD Oil Analysis?
Simply put, used oil analysis is where you send a small used oil sample to a lab, the lab analyzes many different factors that determine oil quality, sends you back a report, and by comparing your report to others posted here you can determine a lot about the internal condition of your PD-TDI engine.

How do I change my oil?
There are two common ways of changing the oil in a TDI: from the top using an oil extractor [VIDEO], or via the traditional oil drain method [PDF].

What oil filter should I use?
Using OEM quality oil filters is recommended. Always change the oil and the oil filter together. Never change the filter without changing the oil, and never change the oil without changing the filter. The OEM oil filters used in TDIs since 2000 are designed for up to 31,000 miles of use.

OEM filters are not expensive when purchased directly from the dealer, and are even less expensive when purchased from any number of online TDI parts suppliers.

How often should I change my oil?
VW / Owner's Manual Recommendation = 5k, 10k, 20k, 30k and every 10k miles thereafter. [Note: only the first two OCIs are 5k intervals.] Rest assured, the VW recommended oil change intervals are conservative - i.e. there is no benefit to changing your oil more often than recommended in stock TDIs [Perfomance modified TDIs may benefit from more frequent OCIs, and should use lab oil analysis to determine the vehicle's optimal OCI]. If you're concerned because your oil looks "dirty" (black) immediately after an oil change please click here.

How do I use an Oil Sampling Pump?

[Note: an oil sampling pump is needed for intermediate oil analyses (extracting a sample without changing your oil) and for extracting an uncontaminated sample when changing oil via the topside method. If changing oil via the traditional drain method, you can simply catch a sample of the oil as it is draining.]

If you have had your PD oil analyzed please post your results to this thread so we can include them in this study/spreadsheet. Thanks!

Oil Analysis 101 by TooSlick
Oil Analysis Information from Oil Analyzers, Inc.
What is Oil Analysis? from www.bobistheoilguy.com
What is Oil Analysis? from www.blackstone-labs.com

This thread can serve as a refence point for PD owners trying to determine if they're in good shape, or if there is something they should be concerned with. Individual results can be compared to the average, compared to results from PDs of similar mileage, and BioD and Petro results can be compared/contrasted.

Data Sheets for oils currently being tested:

Elf Solaris LLX 5w-30 507.00
Elf Evolution CRV 0w-30 506.01
Elf Exellium DID 5w-40 505.01
Motul Specific 5w-40 505.01
Motul Specific 0w-30 506.01
Castrol TXT 5w-40 505.01 [unable to find data sheet]
MSDS - PENTOSYNTH Synthetic OIL 5W-40 (TS) SJ/CF
VOA Comparison (LAP, TBN, Vis.) of all 505.01, 506.01 & 505.00 (M1-T&SUV)

----------------------------------------

Click here to view all the VOA (virgin oil analysis) and UOA (used oil analysis) results we have to date.

The image below is just sample of some of the VOA and UOA data spreadsheet that is not updated.
Please click the above link to view the entire updated spreadsheet.
----------------------------------------

Here's a "runway" of all the VOA samples, in case anyone wants to select their oil on looks alone

For comparison to UOAs from earlier TDI engines, click here to view TDI UOAs from BITOG

Oil Analysis Kit Sources:

Oil Analyzers - [http://www.oaitesting.com/]. With Amsoil Preferred Customer membership, their very thorough testing - including TBN is only $15.20. AndyH is offering the OA kits near preferred pricing for TDIclub members that are not Amsoil members [click here for pricing and details]. Here's Andy's contact information:

Andrew Hecker
Independent AMSOIL Account Direct
9406 Vallecito Pass
San Antonio, TX 78250
www.zamslube.com
1-877-271-7646
210 392-3631
210 521-7635 fax
ahecker@zamslube.com

Oil Guard - http://www.oilguard.com
Blackstone - http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
CAT SOS Oil Analysis - http://www.cat.com/cda/layout?m=40740&x=7
AV Lubricants Inc. - http://store.avlube.com/oilandfuanki.html

In Canada:

CAT/Finning - Standard SOS Analysis plus TBN
Soot Conversion Table: CAT # to Soot %

Articles and information regarding VW Oil Specifications

PD Oil Sources

Castrol 505.01
VW Dealers
www.1stvwparts.com, VW Part# G052167A2
www.worldimpex.com, VW Part# G052167A2
www.ecstuning.com, 800.924.5172

ELF 505.01, 506.01 & 507.00
Click here for a listing of NA Retailers and Distributers
www.tdiparts.com - 914.481.6136, sales@tdiparts.com **506.01 & 507.00**
Sabre-Chem, Inc. - 918.587.1555, scott@sabrechem.com
Mountain Products, Co. - 303.770.5767, chriswchap@aol.com
www.ElfUSA.com
http://turbofrogperformance.com - froggy@turbofrogperformance.com **507.00**

Motul 505.01 & 506.01
Click here for a listing of US Retailers and Distributers www.worldimpex.com - 800.736.3550
www.bobbyarchermotorsports.com - 817.877.1772
www.singhmotorwerks.com
www.ltbmotorsports.com
www.northamericanlubricants.com - 800.430.6252
MotorSPOT - 760.731.8303
German Parts & Restoration - 800-321-5432 **506.01**

PentosynthTS 505.01
www.tdiparts.com - 914.481.6136, sales@tdiparts.com

tomo366 · Dec 6, 2004

PD Oil Analysis Thread

Oil analysis at 10,000 on my PD Passat

spicy_red · Dec 6, 2004

PD Oil Analysis Thread

Here's my 3... http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/1323857680_4WD03894_N030-34208-0136.pdf

4th one should be done next week.

SUNRG · Dec 6, 2004

PD Oil Analysis Thread

Tom,

Could you email me a larger version of your oil analysis. I can't read some of the info on the one you posted.

spicy_red,

yours is in kilometers, right?

Thanks,

Rob [mtvelo@yahoo.com]

spicy_red · Dec 6, 2004

PD Oil Analysis Thread

spicy_red,
yours is in kilometers, right?

Yes

skinz2k5TDI · Dec 7, 2004

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

I'm not sure what I am really looking at... I see 3 test cycles for a certain oil, but what is this telling me??

(i'm a little slow sometimes)

SUNRG · Dec 10, 2004

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

I just received a copy of eyetdiman's two OilGuard analyses at 5 and 10k. The report layout looks very similar to those I've seen before but it does not test the following:
Ni (Nickel), Ag (Silver), Mn (Manganese), B (Boron), Mg (Magnesium), Ca (Calcium), Ba (Barium), P (Phosphorus), Zn (Zinc), Ti (Titanium) or V (Vanadium)

The advantage of the OilGuard analysis is that it costs as little as $9 (6 pack = $54).

Without an Amsoil membership, the Oil Analyzers test that includes all of these costs $20.20.

Considering the motor oil being tested/compared is only from PD engines, can someone with oil analysis experience please tell us if testing these elements is worth paying $11.20 more than the $9 Oil Guard analysis?

Thanks!

AndyH · Dec 11, 2004

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

I used Oilguard for about six samples before switching to Oil Analyzers. The OAI test is much more thorough and they are intimately familiar with synthetic oil (no oxydation/nitration issues, or water reports from misreading esters in the oil). They too have analyst comments, web-based retrieval (along with fax, mail, and e-mail delivery). You can e-mail or telephone the analyst and get more info, have samples re-run (free), or provide additional info and have ammended reports prepared. I'm not allowed to post prices on public forums per AMSOIL's rules - but they can be had for less than the $20.20 retail.

Andy

*December Special - Two free Preferred Customer memberships
Independent AMSOIL Account Direct
San Antonio
210 392-3631

SUNRG · Dec 13, 2004

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Motul 506.01 is shipping to me today. I will send virgin samples to Oil Analyzers for VOAs on Motul 506.01, Motul 505.01 and Castrol 505.01.

Here's an estimate schedule of OAs I'll be doing:

VOA on all three (Motul 505.01, 506.01 and Castrol): January 2005

5k Castrol 505.01 UOA (change and fill with 506.01)
8073 Golf: January 2005
29650 Jetta: February 2005

5k Intermediate Motul 506.01 UOA*
13073 Golf: April 2005
34650 Jetta: April 2005

10k Motul 506.01 UOA**
18073 Golf: August 2005
39650 Jetta: June 2005

5k Intermediate Motul 505.01 UOA
23073 Golf: December 2005
44650 Jetta: September 2005

10k Motul 505.01 Analysis
28073 Golf: April 2006
49650 Jetta: December 2005

* If the 5k 506.01 UOA does not look good I will drain and replace with 505.01.
** If the 10k 506.01 UOA looks better than the 5k 505.01 UOA, I will keep the 506.01 in until 15k.

Kabin · Dec 13, 2004

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

I've used AV Lubricants in the past and for $16 they test wear metals, contaminants, additives, and physical analysis.

http://store.avlube.com/oilanalysiskit.html

SUNRG · Dec 20, 2004

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

here's a link to larger image of tomo366's UOA:
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/506/133Oil_Analysis001.jpg

i have two others that i received by mail that i'll scan and post shortly.

also, i just recieved a case of Motul 506.01 and a case of Motul 505.01. i plan to do VOAs and UOAs on both, as well as Castrol's 505.01.

SUNRG · Dec 20, 2004

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

<font color="red"> New Oil Analysis Recommendation </font> - I just received my free sample OA test kits from Blackstone Laboratories (see below) and I did not realize their is an additional $10 fee for TBN, and if you receive the free kit the base cost is $20, so the total OA cost is $30. My new recommendation is Oil Analyzers [http://www.oaitesting.com/]. With Amsoil Preferred Customer membership, their very thorough testing - including TBN is only $15.20. Without Preferred Customer status it's $20.20, but if you know someone that's a current Amsoil Dealer they may be able to get you a free 12 month Preferred Customer membership.

Old Recommendation:

If you're considering having your oil analyzed, might I suggest Blackstone Laboratories. Their cost is reasonable, every result is personally anaylzed and commented on in a "Comments" section, and they compare your results to all of your previous analyses (unit averages) and they compare your result with all other analyses they have performed on the same make/model/engine (universal averages).

also, if a group of us use one lab that will remove a variable and make our comparisons more meaningful.

i am in no way affiliated with Blackstone, i just looked at copies of analyses from a number of different labs and what Blackstone returns seems very understandable, they use a good organized format, their turnaround is supposedly very fast, and they'll send you the kits for free (no up-front costs). $17 per analysis.

SUNRG · Dec 21, 2004

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

i prepared the VOA samples today and they'll ship to Oil Analyzers, Inc. tomorrow. here's what the samples look like:
[M6 - Motul 506.01, M5 - Motul 505.01, C5 - Castrol 505.01]:

The 506.01 looks nicer to me

Here are the three containers:

Oh I forgot to add that I spoke with Dan at Oil Analyzers about what we're doing and he pointed out that there are two different TBN tests:

TBN Test: ASTM D2896 [used by manufacturers]
TBN Test: ASTM D4739 [used in UOA, usually produces a TBN that’s about 2 points lower than D2896]

He was basically bracing us for the likelyhood that their TBN results will be slightly lower than those in the manufacturer spec. sheets.

Speaking of spec sheets:
Motul 505.01 Data & VW 505.01 Approval Letter
Motul 506.01 Data Sheet & VW 506.01 Approval Letter

Does anyone have a link to the Castrol 505.01 data sheet?

AudiLikeA4 · Dec 30, 2004

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

What is TBN?

SUNRG · Dec 30, 2004

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

TBN = Total Base Number

From www.bobistheoilguy.com: TBN generally indicates the acid-neutralizing capacity still in the lubricant.

SUNRG · Jan 4, 2005

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Just thought I'd add that we're definitely going to be getting an ELF Excellium DID 505.01 VOA and UOAs.

I just spoke at length with Scott at:

Sabre-Chem, Inc.
Tulsa, OK 74170
USA
(918) 587-1555
scott@sabrechem.com

and if anyone is interested in trying the Elf products I'd recommend giving him a call.

SUNRG · Jan 5, 2005

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Here's the VOA results for the Castrol and Motul 505.01s and the Motul 506.01. I'm looking forward to getting Elf VOAs soon...

Data Sheets:
Motul 505.01
Motul 506.01
Castrol 505.01 ???

dieseldorf · Jan 5, 2005

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Cool, thanks for doing this. It would be interesting to add the Castrol 505.00 oil to this simply for comparison. I wonder if anyone has it...

SUNRG · Jan 5, 2005

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

dieseldorf PMd me this link to a VOA comparison between Amsoil 5w-40 and Castrol 505.01

while i'd like this thread be primarily about 505.01 approved oils, the comparison the results highlight either a significant difference in labs or a difference in our Castrol 505.01 samples...

Amsoil 5w-40/Castrol, 505.01
Analysis performed by Blackstone Labs....
Vis @ 100C... 15.0 Cst/13.7 Cst
HT/HS...4.2 Cp/?
Noack...5.5%/?
FP, +449F/+440F
PP, -59F/-60F
TBN/ASTM D-4739 ...12.4/12.1
Silicon ...4 ppm/1 ppm - antifoam additive
Detergent/Dispersant additives:
Calcium...3243 ppm/2361 ppm
Mag ......11 ppm/8 ppm
Antiwear additives:
Phosphorus..906 ppm/1045 ppm
Zinc .......1000 ppm/1270 ppm
Moly....none/none
Boron ..none/none

while most of the VOA values for Castrol 505.01 are similar to the VOA Oil Analyzers performed - Blackstone arrived at a strikingly different TBN using the same ASTM testing method: 12.1 Blackstone / 9.12 Oil Analyzers, Inc..

12.1 is just too high for the Castrol 505.01 TBN. this being the case, it brings into question the Amsoil TBN result of 12.4.

03_01_TDI · Jan 5, 2005

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

So for us non-oil smart guys. you want as higher numbers of
Phosphorus Zinc Moly Boron?

And then lower numbers of iron and silicon?

???

SUNRG · Jan 5, 2005

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

here are two UOAs performed on Castrol 505.01 by the OilGuard lab. while this is the least expensive UOA lab (as little as $9 per analysis) it returns less data - specifically omitting antiwear additive data.

the slightly higher oxidation value correlates with the viscosity increase in the 2nd sample - but both are fine. the TBN of only 6.6 of the 1st sample seems a bit low - but the 2nd sample's 9.4 is very good.

the low TBN value from the 1st sample may support the argument for doing the first change prior the recommended 5k. however, i just looked at tomo366's 5-10k Motul UOA and it returned a TBN of 6.24 in his PD134 - so maybe a mid 6 TBN is fine. unfortunately, spicy red's lab does not return TBN results - unless i'm just not finding it on his sheet...

SUNRG · Jan 5, 2005

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

03_01_TDI - i'm nearly as new to this as you are. here's text straight from the www.bobistheoilguy.com

Physical Tests
Some of the physical properties tested for and usually included in analysis of an oil sample are:

Antifreeze - forms a gummy substance that may reduce oil flow. It leads to high oxidation, oil thickening, high acidity, and engine failure if not corrected.
Fuel dilution - thins oil, lowers lubricating ability, and might drop oil pressure. This usually causes higher wear.
Oxidation - measures gums, varnishes and oxidation products. High oxidation from oil used too hot or too long can leave sludge and varnish deposits and thicken the oil.
Total Base Number - generally indicates the acid-neutralizing capacity still in the lubricant.
Total Solids - include ash, carbon, lead salts from gasoline engines, and oil oxidation.
Viscosity - is a measure of an oil's resistance to flow. Oil may thin due to shear in multi-viscosity oils or by dilution with fuel. Oil may thicken from oxidation when run too long or too hot. Oil also may thicken from contamination by antifreeze, sugar and other materials.

Metal Tests
Some of the metals tested for and usually included in analysis of an oil sample and their potential sources are:

Aluminum (Al): Thrust washers, bearings and pistons are made of this metal. High readings can be from piston skirt scuffing, excessive ring groove wear, broken thrust washers, etc.
Boron, Magnesium, Calcium, Barium, Phosphorous, and Zinc: These metals are normally from the lubricating oil additive package. They involve detergents, dispersants, extreme-pressure additives, etc.
Chromium (CR): Normally associated with piston rings. High levels can be caused by dirt coming through the air intake or broken rings.
Copper (CU), Tin: These metals are normally from bearings or bushings and valve guides. Oil coolers also can contribute to copper readings along with some oil additives. In a new engine these results will normally be high during break-in, but will decline in a few hundred hours.
Iron (Fe): This can come from many places in the engine such as liners, camshafts, crankshaft, valve train, timing gears, etc.
Lead (Pb): Use of regular gasoline will cause very high test results. Also associated with bearing wear, but fuel source (leaded gasoline) and sampling contamination (use of galvanized containers for sampling) are critical in interpreting this metal.
Silicon (Si): High readings generally indicate dirt or fine sand contamination from a leaking air intake system. This would act as an abrasive, causing excessive wear. Silicon is also used as a anti-foam agent in some oils. more on silicon
Sodium (Na): High readings of this metal normally are associated with a coolant leak, but can be from an oil additive package.

SUNRG · Jan 6, 2005

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

i put the Motul 506.01 in my Golf this evening and i'll be sending a 5k sample of Castrol 505.01 to Oil Analyzers tomorrow.

i used an Amsoil oil sample pump and i drew out a sample, discarded it in case the tubing or container had loose contaminants in it, then drew out a second sample to send in. i plan to use this same technique for intermediate and oil change samples to be consistent.

i did the initial change at 3k on my Golf and it just went over 8k today.

if the 5k analysis of 506.01 looks good i'll keep it in for 10k.

Elf 505.01 should be on it's way to me, but Scott was not sure if Elf 506.01 is available in NA. he said he might be able to get me 5 quarts to test but if it's not going to be offered in NA there's really no point in testing it.

more to come...

dieseldorf · Jan 6, 2005

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Elf 505.01 should be on it's way to me, but Scott was not sure if Elf 506.01 is available in NA. he said he might be able to get me 5 quarts to test but if it's not going to be offered in NA there's really no point in testing it.

that's strange. Scott told me a few weeks ago that he thought he had some 506.01 and if not he could get it

He even quoted me pricing on it. FWIW, it does appear on the US website.

skinz2k5TDI · Jan 6, 2005

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

i was looking for it as well, not on the website.. DD what did you get quoted? Know of anywhere else to get a 506.01??

sactotdi · Jan 6, 2005

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Hi everyone,

I am not ashamed to admit that I have no idea what you guys are saying in these posts but I do have a question.
Does any of this change the 505.01 Motul or Castrol recommendation for the PD 2.0??

Ferrari · Jan 6, 2005

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

houstontdi, a VW 505.01 oil must be used in the 2.0 PD, whether it's Castol, Motul, or Elf.

dieseldorf · Jan 7, 2005

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

skinz:

web link

11-5-2004:

I had a note from Scott at SabreChem this morning and he says he has (or can order) the Elf 506.01 0W-30 oil. He quotes the price at $16/L and about $22 for shipping...

That's some expense oil but may be a decent solution for those doing huge annual mileage.

sactotdi · Jan 7, 2005

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

Thanks Ferrari!

SUNRG · Jan 7, 2005

Re: PD Oil Analysis Thread

skinz2k5TDI - to my knowledge only Motul 506.01 is currently available. Probably any Motul retailer could have it drop shipped to you. Below is a link to one source.

while it's almost certainly superior to 505.01, i wouldn't blame Elf if they decided not to bring it to NA. at $16/litre, and no NA vehicles recommneding or requiring it, how much could they reasonably expect to sell...

i asked Bob, a Motul distributer in TX, why they even have 506.01 in the US and he had no clear answer. he speculated that they're just trying to determine if there's any market for it. he said that to his knowledge i am the only person in the US that has purchased Motul 506.01.

i put the 506.01 in my Golf PD last night and it drives great - but it drove great yesterday too (with 505.01

).

506.01 sources

PD-TDI (2004+) Oil Info & Analyses (Post #1 = FAQ)

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