Pd cracked head

Festa

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2016
Location
South east uk
TDI
Vw t5 van
Don't know if this is common or not but I'm just going to go onto my third pd cylinder head. All three have cracking extending from the injector and spreads from there, the first head at 110k and the second lasted 60k. The last one has lasted 50k with cracking serve enough to drop compression on number 5 with diesel blowing back into the inlet and the exhaust, it gets worse with every power increase.
Does this happen with the higher powered 4 pots?
Any modifications to reduce the damage ?
Also worn out the cam, followers and all the valves on the stems with the guides :(
Not sure now how to proceed and I could do with some suggestions :)
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
Since yours is a T5, it likely has one of the all-aluminium 5-pots. They have been reportedly problematic engines on a number of fronts. You don't mention any modifications but like DPM stated, I would have to stare at any mods before blaming the engine itself. Small hairline cracks around the glow plug and injector holes and the bridges between the valves are actually quite common and normal for almost all Diesels but enough to leak fuel or coolant definitely are not!

These engines also use a long through bolts from the heads to the main bearing caps. Overtorquing (and/or reusing) these TTY bolts, if either of these cases apply, will also hasten subsequent trashing of the heads.
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
Based on your past posts, that motor has given you a lot of grief and no wonder. LPG, pushing the performance envelope of an engine that has proven not to be receptive to it, sleeving a non-sleevable block, etc. Sorry to say, but that thing is cursed and spoiled goods, mate.
 

Festa

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2016
Location
South east uk
TDI
Vw t5 van
Based on your past posts, that motor has given you a lot of grief and no wonder. LPG, pushing the performance envelope of an engine that has proven not to be receptive to it, sleeving a non-sleevable block, etc. Sorry to say, but that thing is cursed and spoiled goods, mate.
I tend to agree with most of the above..Yes it is an all aluminium engine and it's had a short production time and its had a fairly hard life.
The gas has been on for over 2 years and it could be this increasing the combustion temperature, that will then explain the worn valve stems as the valves must be getting a bit warmer than what there used to.
Also back to the gas it's only been fitted on the last head and not the other 2 , the valves on the other hand have just been changed out between the bare heads as there has been no signs of damage.
Bobby Singh has mapped it with another van with the same engine but I'm not blaming the map as it still returned good power and torque even with the damage in the engine. I've stripped the engine due to a broken rear engine mount as the engine torque has pulled the threads from the block so I thought I would strip and look at the starting issue which had only been a recent thing.
Since I altered the injector fixing for the injectors they have shown no visible wear in the top of there bores, and even though I'm not using stretch bolts on these they are not over tightened.
The camshaft had signs of stepping on the number one inlet along with the worn follower on the same lobe and could be signs off reduced oil flow as most of the remaining 9 followers are showing signs of wear.
The bore for number 5 has thrown a bit of a curve ball as I had thought it was just a worn bore and rings on a compression test. This is not really the case as on a kerosene test on the bores the plasma coated bores lost its fluid quicker than the steel lining so this then brings me onto the question of " is the +50 nozzles bore washing the plasma coating?" I don't know as there seems not to be many higher powered r5 engines that do 20k+ mileage a year , most are just weekend and show stuff.
The head has jumped and I can see movement on the crank bolts with wear marks up the side of the bolts, I have found a set of 12.9 grade bolts that I'm going to install but ARP don't have anything suitable.
The only difference I can see apart for a bore missing on the 4 pot is they don't have a gear driven top end and it's a cam belt,it's not cross flow, I still have a 492cc per bore similar to the 8v pd and inlet/exhaust valves the same size .
As I said in one of my passed threads on coolant whether it's just all getting to hot and possibly needs a bit more cooling for the top end ?
For the future this is going to be the last for this engine as I have other plans, but just seeing what it's capable of as an everyday driver and the diesel over this side of the pond is on borrowed time with the government.
 

martin33100

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Location
UK
TDI
VW T5 2.5
Based on your past posts, that motor has given you a lot of grief and no wonder. LPG, pushing the performance envelope of an engine that has proven not to be receptive to it, sleeving a non-sleevable block, etc. Sorry to say, but that thing is cursed and spoiled goods, mate.
In the UK the only cost effective way to salvage a worn alley block on the 2.5 PD engine is to get them machined and sleeved with an iron liner and use the appropriate piston rings to suit, lots of people have had it done with no issues at all.
VW won't sell just the block, they only sell a built up half engine and that's about £4000 plus.

Some standard non modified 2.5's have done over 300k with no issues at all and some with less than 100k have eaten cams and cracked the heads.
 

Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
Over here my engine builder re apllies a coating in the alu cylinder, he says with sleeving its a matter over time before headgasket gets leaky
 

martin33100

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Location
UK
TDI
VW T5 2.5
Over here my engine builder re apllies a coating in the alu cylinder, he says with sleeving its a matter over time before headgasket gets leaky
The liners they fit on the 2.5 PD are quite thin so the head gasket should still be sealing on the OE aluminium landing face.
 

Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
There isnt much room with 81mm bore between cyl for the fire ring to develop a proper seal.
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
... None :S
My father had the cylinder coating redone on his aluminum motorcycle engine, so I imagine it could be done for automotive engines as well.

Is this 2.5 the gear drive one, half of the V10?

-J
 

martin33100

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Location
UK
TDI
VW T5 2.5
There isnt much room with 81mm bore between cyl for the fire ring to develop a proper seal.
I will take your word on that as I haven't had to strip my 2.5 PD engine down yet, there is now a few of us in the UK running 250hp plus from this type of engine so the cyl gasket/ landing area can't be that bad.
 

martin33100

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Location
UK
TDI
VW T5 2.5
My father had the cylinder coating redone on his aluminum motorcycle engine, so I imagine it could be done for automotive engines as well.

Is this 2.5 the gear drive one, half of the V10?

-J
Yes it's gear driven, the v10 does look like 2 X 2.5's.
 

Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
I will take your word on that as I haven't had to strip my 2.5 PD engine down yet, there is now a few of us in the UK running 250hp plus from this type of engine so the cyl gasket/ landing area can't be that bad.
I also can only tell what my engine rebuilt place siad. they do such an engine every other week with bore wash so I reckon they know what works and what doesnt =)
 

martin33100

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Location
UK
TDI
VW T5 2.5
I also can only tell what my engine rebuilt place siad. they do such an engine every other week with bore wash so I reckon they know what works and what doesnt =)
If my engine block wears it may be worth sending to yours guys in Belgium then, what company is it?
 

Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
Grosemans in Kermt. u can send block to me if u want, I can take it there as theyre pretty local to me.
 

Festa

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2016
Location
South east uk
TDI
Vw t5 van
I also can only tell what my engine rebuilt place siad. they do such an engine every other week with bore wash so I reckon they know what works and what doesnt =)
Not really sure if it is bore wash on the plasma coating as I'm not sure if the bores are supposed to be honest, it very smooth and no damage to these bores. As you say there not much space between the bores so I have already had cross burning/damage on the head gasket.
The original all question is the cracking on the head around the injector as tuned or not they all seem to crack :(
Thanks all for the replies :) as on another note the little end bushes are worn along with the piston pin.
 

Festa

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2016
Location
South east uk
TDI
Vw t5 van
Lay off the LPG.
Why?
To me a standard head on these engines crack and the cracking looks like implosion not explosion if the combustion pressures where getting to high.
I'm not running anymore egts" over a similar tuned engine on wot.

Ok does the 2.5 touareg suffer from cracking on the head ?
 

martin33100

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2015
Location
UK
TDI
VW T5 2.5
Grosemans in Kermt. u can send block to me if u want, I can take it there as theyre pretty local to me.
Thanks for the offer, hope fully my own block will last a little longer but if it does fail in the future I may give you a shout.
 

Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
Why?
To me a standard head on these engines crack and the cracking looks like implosion not explosion if the combustion pressures where getting to high.
I'm not running anymore egts" over a similar tuned engine on wot.

Ok does the 2.5 touareg suffer from cracking on the head ?
you have no more control over rate of heat release and resulting peak cyl pressures.

people also do not run gasoline or lpg engine with a compression ratio of 19 with 2.5 bar boost. do they?
 

KERMA

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 23, 2001
Location
here
TDI
99 beetle and 04 jetta
Every single car I've ever encountered with LPG has been an utter basket case. Even worse than WVO. Serious problems like the OP cracked head. No exceptions. If it hasn't happened yet, it will. The MTBF is likely strongly influenced by how much the user views the LPG as a power adder and how frequently it's used.
 

Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
LPG is really a bad gas for this application. If at all use natural gas (CH4). it burns better lean and has a high(er) knock threshold. nonetheless it still will self ignite with the compression and boost numbers in this engine.
 
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