PD control with EDC15P+

[e*clipse]

I've been running a modded 1Z with a 68pin ECU in my Toyota truck for a few years. (Mods in sig)

Anyway, it recently bit the dust, triggering my "must be time to upgrade."

I'm going to replace it with a PD, controlled with an EDC15P+ ECU. I have a few questions to start, regarding the control stuff.

I purchased the Bentley manuals for the A4, which covers the PD. I also have the older A3 manual for the 1Z.

The Bentley wiring diagram is a bit confusing, as I'm trying to cross-reference the pin numbers of the ECU to the one sitting in front of me.
The ECU is referred to as "J248" and the diagram starts on page 81/4

There are two connectors, and the Bentley manual refers to pins as "T94/XX" and "T60/XX" My confusion comes from the fact that there are no 94pin or 60pin connectors on the ECU. For example, a common pinout diagram is here:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=308247

Does anyone have any suggestions for clearing this up?

Also, there are some new inputs and devices to control. - Can these be deleted, like the EGR in the 1Z?
- N79 PCV heating
- V157 intake flap motor
- N345 EGR cooler switch over valve
- N156 intake manifold change over valve
- G39 Heated 02 sensor


I'm trying to KISS, but will be adding the bigger turbo & injectors along with an appropriate tune when I get it running.

Thanks in advance for any advice and suggestions.

 

[Owain@malonetuning]

Why don't you keep it simple and use the ECU that the engine came with?

MAF, O2 sensors, EGR, ASV, intake flap, etc can all be deleted with tuning. I'd keep the MAF as it helps with smoke control/fuel economy.

 

[e*clipse]

Why don't you keep it simple and use the ECU that the engine came with?

MAF, O2 sensors, EGR, ASV, intake flap, etc can all be deleted with tuning. I'd keep the MAF as it helps with smoke control/fuel economy.

I am. The engine came with the ECU. It's an AJM from Germany along with an EDC15P+ from Germany.

A plan to use the MAF and was hoping to delete all the EGR stuff. I'm not sure about the 02 sensor, because in Gas cars it helps with the fuel economy. I'll also have to delete the immobilizer.

- E*clipse

 

[Keir@malonetuning.com]

We can help you with all of that, That ECU will work for you I read EDC15 and thought you were trying to use an ALH ecu to run a PD, which was cause for some serious head scratching.

 

[Owain@malonetuning]

Beat me to it. Yea that ECU definitely simplifies the swap. The 15P+ is a lot easier for delete tuning. With diesels the O2 sensors aren't as important, but the primarily O2 does help a bit with fuel economy and smoke control. VNT17s go really well with these kinds of swaps, lower EGTs than stock and still make great bottom end torque for crawling around.

 

[e*clipse]

Beat me to it. Yea that ECU definitely simplifies the swap. The 15P+ is a lot easier for delete tuning. With diesels the O2 sensors aren't as important, but the primarily O2 does help a bit with fuel economy and smoke control. VNT17s go really well with these kinds of swaps, lower EGTs than stock and still make great bottom end torque for crawling around.

I was hoping to run the GTA2056 from the previous build. Generally I'm trying for high torque and low EGT's. It's got to handle sustained long pulls.

Does anyone have any suggestions for matching the Bentley pin numbers to the ECU?

Thanks a bunch,

E*clipse

 

[named tintin]

I think your bentley refers to EDC16 from our PD 100 engine, not the EDC15P.

EDC16 are better for tuning, but since you already have an EDC15, it wil do the job.

For your application, I'll go with a small turbo.

I'll PM you for your best tuning option.

 

[e*clipse]

Hi Tintin!

Thank you very much for your help!

Would you have a suggestion where to look for a wiring diagram, if the Bentley is not correct?

I look forward to your PM,

E*clipse

I think your bentley refers to EDC16 from our PD 100 engine, not the EDC15P.

EDC16 are better for tuning, but since you already have an EDC15, it wil do the job.

For your application, I'll go with a small turbo.

I'll PM you for your best tuning option.

 

[Matt-98AHU]

You *might* be able to find it on erwin.vw.com.

$35 for a day's access and with enough playing around sometimes you can get foreign market repair information.

tintin is absolutely right. The Bentley manual for a mk4 will be showing you the wiring for a newer, more sophisticated EDC16P setup that the BEW uses rather than what it is you're trying to work with.

The kind of neat thing about the EDC15P is there are a few less actuators and sensors to worry about. The anti shutter valve and EGR will still be vacuum controlled rather than having their own electric motor like the BEW. Plus, no O2 sensors, no vacuum-controlled runner flaps in the intake manifold, no vacuum controlled flap in the EGR cooler and no turbo actuator position sensor.

 

[e*clipse]

These threads seem to get close:

Struikie offered a spreadsheet:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3491009&postcount=48

and DJGonzo got one running:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=340395

and maybe even this one:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=320882


Verifications, anyone?

 

[named tintin]

I have done several european PD swap into ALH car, and the large connector on the ECU is plug&play, soit may be easier to find an ALH wiring diagram.

The smaller connector is for the engine sensor, injector, etc... if your wiring loom is intact, you should not have to do anything on this connector, just plug in.

 

[e*clipse]

So the ALH used the same ECU as the PD? Wow - that's huge info!!! Thanks!!

Both connectors are **sort of*** intact. The harness itself has a number of clipped wires - probably to facilitate ripping the motor out in the junk yard. Specifically, the wires that went into the passenger compartment are all cut.

I was hoping to make a "just what's necessary" harness, like I did for the 1Z swap. I may start with one in better condition that the one that came with my motor.

- E*clipse

I have done several european PD swap into ALH car, and the large connector on the ECU is plug&play, soit may be easier to find an ALH wiring diagram.

The smaller connector is for the engine sensor, injector, etc... if your wiring loom is intact, you should not have to do anything on this connector, just plug in.

 

[e*clipse]

Thank you VERY MUCH Tintin!!!

I was able to find the correct wiring diagram in my Bentley manual, P97-301

Woo Woo! That was a HUGE help. I'm at a loss without schematics....

 

[Rub87]

edc15P from germany has no:

- N79 PCV heating
- V157 intake flap motor
- N345 EGR cooler switch over valve
- N156 intake manifold change over valve
- G39 Heated 02 sensor

It will give a DTC if you remove one from the solenoids (EGR or ASV) but these solenoid can be left in or replaced by a resistor. it will also give a DTC when you remove EGR but not LIMP (AJM is EU3) so in theory you can just plug it in a drive it with stock software until u get it tuned.

for turbo a 2056vl from volvo would number one choice.

 

[e*clipse]

edc15P from germany has no:

- N79 PCV heating
- V157 intake flap motor
- N345 EGR cooler switch over valve
- N156 intake manifold change over valve
- G39 Heated 02 sensor

It will give a DTC if you remove one from the solenoids (EGR or ASV) but these solenoid can be left in or replaced by a resistor. it will also give a DTC when you remove EGR but not LIMP (AJM is EU3) so in theory you can just plug it in a drive it with stock software until u get it tuned.

for turbo a 2056vl from volvo would number one choice.

Hello Rub87, thank you for the helpful information. Would you happen to have any access to EDC15P+ pinouts?

Thanks a bunch,
E*clipse

 

[Rub87]

I don't know if I have it online but as has been posted. you can keep the car side plug (the big one) of a ALH. the engine side (small plug) you just leave intact on the engine.

 

[oldpoopie]

Stick with euro pd injector bodies with that edc15p+. US spec wont play nice.

 

[e*clipse]

Stick with euro pd injector bodies with that edc15p+. US spec wont play nice.

Ohhh! Didn't know that! Will the Euro PD injector bodies work with the Bosio nozzles?

I was going to upgrade to the power plus 1043 or maybe even the race 783's from DBW.

While I'm on that topic, is there a level of sane limitation for this extra power? The reason I ask is folks have posted numbers like 300hp around here. That might work fine for a light little racecar, but subjecting the engine/drivetrain to these levels for extended towing jobs on long hills could definitely shorten engine life.

On my previous engine, I monitored the EGT just before the turbo. Recommendations for maximum temperatures? One issue is that temperature is only an average - in my engine, a bad injector caused high enough temperatures to crack the piston.

- E*clipse

 

[oldpoopie]

Nozzles of your choice as long as they are PD

 

[e*clipse]

Nozzles of your choice as long as they are PD

Ok, thank you.

What do you mean by "us spec injector bodies won't play nice?"

-E*clipse

 

[oldpoopie]

Misfire codes sporadically. Cost me over $1000 trying to sort it out

 

[jjordan11]

What is your theory on the cause of the misfire codes? I have a set of Firad +120 on BEW bodies that I plan on running with the EDC15P ECM.

E*clipse, I sent you an email with some diagrams I had to sort through my EDC15P PD motor swap.

 

[oldpoopie]

I don't know ones and zeros too well, the problem lies in there I think.

 

[e*clipse]

What is your theory on the cause of the misfire codes? I have a set of Firad +120 on BEW bodies that I plan on running with the EDC15P ECM.

E*clipse, I sent you an email with some diagrams I had to sort through my EDC15P PD motor swap.

jjordan11 - Thank you very much for those diagrams - that is extremely helpful!

oldpoopie - I know a bit about 1's and 0's as well as the electronics that make work together. Do you have any logs of the electronic i/o's and the computer stuff with it?

I'm curious about digging into it to see what caused it. If I learn anything useful, I'd be happy to share with folks around here.

 

[oldpoopie]

I'll see if I can come up with something.