PD ARP Stud Part Numbers

Farfromovin

Torque Addict
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Location
Ventura, CA
TDI
03 Golf 2dr- PD150 6m
Good work guys. Hopefully in a few months we'll have an application specific kit. Weather from ARP or Raceware I don't really care. Either should be a benefit to PD owners who make power.
 

coalminer16

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Location
Central Wisconsin
TDI
Golf 2004
Just for the makers of Raceware or the ARP people if they are watching this thread brother and I would each buy a bolt kit if it was a true plug and play without the machining need.
 

O.C.TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Location
Oregon City, OR
TDI
04 Jetta TDI, 09' JSW TDI, 09' BMW 335d
I finally had some time to play with this. This was setup with a 2 hole headgasket.

Here you can see the nut is holding the cam cap up about a 1/16"



Here I removed the washers.



I will try to post some more pics.

The possible solutions I see are:
-Different nut profile to eliminate the contact.
-Machine a small recess for the nut into the cam cap.
***This will not allow for re-torque without removing the cam caps. There is not enough material on the caps to drill the cap out to allow re-torque.
-Thinner washer, I would want to know ARP's thoughts on this.
-Remove washer and just use the nut against the head "I will not do this"

I will not provide any measurements or more info than I already have. There is a vendor as some of you have seen, say they have these for PD's. They do not, they probably have the same p/n's listed in this thread, I posed my questions to them on TDIClub and over the phone a couple weeks ago and have heard nothing, and they were unaware of these clearance issues. Since I am paying to do this research and will not profit from my work here, and I believe someone else will, I am done with this. Especially since I have faith in the PD150 bolts.

As for my cars coolant loss.
I do not feel my failure is related to the bolts.
I am leaning towards a crack in one of the exhaust ports due to thermal stress. I am having a big valve pd head ported and machined. I will swap them and then diagnose my current head.

O.C.
 

devonutopia

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 1, 2003
Location
Devon, U.K
TDI
PD300 Skoda Fabia
My (currently around 240 WHP) TDI has not experienced any kind of headlift / coolant loss using PD150 bolts to manufacturer spec - and this is with 2.3 bar of 2260vk boost. I could have a well "groomed" head which is helping to munch the boost, and not stall it.
 

O.C.TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Location
Oregon City, OR
TDI
04 Jetta TDI, 09' JSW TDI, 09' BMW 335d
I tore the head off yesterday and discovered I had cracks in a couple ports from thermal stress and reduced material in the port. My head was blind ported locally.

The head gasket looked great and I saw no signs of leak by from the gasket. That means the pd150 bolt were holding my power level just fine.

I re-installed the head using the ARP studs, Stock PD washers, and turned down ARP nuts. My machinist chucked the nuts in the lathe and turned them down to the same size as a stock head bolt. The caps fit fine, still can't re-torque without removing the cam caps, we are gonna have the machinist turn a 14mm 12pt socket down so it fits down through the cap.

I torqued them down to 105'#s, ARP rates them to 112'#s. They felt 100% better torquing them down compared to stock bolts.

I'll try to grab some pics before I seal it up this morning.

O.C.
 

jjordan11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Location
Lehi, UT
TDI
1988 Audi 80 quattro PD130, 1982 Westfalia TDI
Thanks for posting this. I have also been thinking about solutions to this problem. I think this is the easiest and most effective.
 

O.C.TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Location
Oregon City, OR
TDI
04 Jetta TDI, 09' JSW TDI, 09' BMW 335d

A5INKY

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Location
Louisville, KY
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI, 2002 Eurovan Westphalia VR6
...The head gasket looked great and I saw no signs of leak by from the gasket. That means the pd150 bolt were holding my power level just fine...
I am curious why you are going through the trouble for the ARP studs since your OE ARL bolts were holding just fine?
 

O.C.TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Location
Oregon City, OR
TDI
04 Jetta TDI, 09' JSW TDI, 09' BMW 335d
I am curious why you are going through the trouble for the ARP studs since your OE ARL bolts were holding just fine?
Because I will be swapping the head again. I had the ARP studs and couldn't return them, I couldn't justify buying more PD bolts. Finally, to see if how the studs hold up to stress.

O.C.
 

CharlieT

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Location
Houston, Tx
TDI
Audi TTqTDI, B4V, B5.5V, '12 NMS SEL
Any update on this ? about to buy some ARP PD head studs and follow your lead with machining the nuts down.
thx
 

O.C.TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Location
Oregon City, OR
TDI
04 Jetta TDI, 09' JSW TDI, 09' BMW 335d
I have 15k miles on them without issue. Multiple track passes, dyno runs, mountain road fun, commuting etc.
I am not getting the huge torque I was with the ported head, I still have a fair amount though.

Have them turned down to the OD of a stock head bolt, use stock washers and enjoy.
 

JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
Travis, it sounded like you will have to pull the cam to remove the head rather than be able to pull it as one piece?
 

CharlieT

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Location
Houston, Tx
TDI
Audi TTqTDI, B4V, B5.5V, '12 NMS SEL
Thanks Travis, that's what I planned on.
Turn the nuts down to 18.5mm OD, and turn down a 14m 12pt impact socket to 18.5mm
 

CharlieT

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Location
Houston, Tx
TDI
Audi TTqTDI, B4V, B5.5V, '12 NMS SEL
You can pull it in one piece if you turn the nuts down, and also customize a socket.
But then again I would recommend using non-TTY cam and rocker bolts anyway, no point wasting $90 every time you mess with the cam.
Speak to Franko6, $50

Travis, it sounded like you will have to pull the cam to remove the head rather than be able to pull it as one piece?
 

oldpoopie

Vendor
Joined
May 14, 2001
Location
Portland Oregon
TDI
2001 golf gl, 2006 jetta, 1981 ALH swapped rabbit pickup, 1998 beetle
I see no real problem with the non TTY cam bolts, however the rocker bolts seem to have an enlarged area on the shaft. I can only assume this area is to aid in locating the rockers left to right. When using the non TTY bolts, I suggest being very watchful as to where the rockers line up.

 

JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
You can pull it in one piece if you turn the nuts down, and also customize a socket.
But then again I would recommend using non-TTY cam and rocker bolts anyway, no point wasting $90 every time you mess with the cam.
Speak to Franko6, $50
I already have a pretty large supply of those from McMaster :D
I also got injector hold down bolts(not sure if I should use these)

oldpoopie - I looked at that when I took my head apart, the holes are at least .010" oversize to the bolts on the cam caps, I didn't check the rockers but I can.
 

TDIJetta99

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2005
Location
Port Jervis, New York, USA
TDI
03... Faster than yours =]
I see no real problem with the non TTY cam bolts, however the rocker bolts seem to have an enlarged area on the shaft. I can only assume this area is to aid in locating the rockers left to right. When using the non TTY bolts, I suggest being very watchful as to where the rockers line up.


Easy way around that.... Install 2 of the old TTY bolts (just snug) for locating purposes, then tighten the non-TTY's, then remove the TTY's used for locating and put the non-TTY's back in... Just hold on to a few of the OE's to locate the rocker shafts when putting the non-TTY's in..
 

CharlieT

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Location
Houston, Tx
TDI
Audi TTqTDI, B4V, B5.5V, '12 NMS SEL
I have 70k miles on my non-TTY bolts now in the BHW, no issues.
I agree that the shoulder suggests alignment, but I played around with it and I found it really did very little.
I agree you should always be careful to align during assy

I see no real problem with the non TTY cam bolts, however the rocker bolts seem to have an enlarged area on the shaft. I can only assume this area is to aid in locating the rockers left to right. When using the non TTY bolts, I suggest being very watchful as to where the rockers line up.
 

oldpoopie

Vendor
Joined
May 14, 2001
Location
Portland Oregon
TDI
2001 golf gl, 2006 jetta, 1981 ALH swapped rabbit pickup, 1998 beetle
Easy way around that.... Install 2 of the old TTY bolts (just snug) for locating purposes, then tighten the non-TTY's, then remove the TTY's used for locating and put the non-TTY's back in... Just hold on to a few of the OE's to locate the rocker shafts when putting the non-TTY's in..
Good point!:eek:
 

fouckhest

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Location
g'vegs, sc
TDI
.:GTD, .:R32, DangerRanger
Really hate to dig this back up, but i need to make a decision....i have some pretty gnarly "sludge" in the coolant....i replaced my oil cooler last week and it came back, and i didnt have time to do another flush before i had to leave for daytona....so with that being said, i am going to try to flush the heater core in hopes there was some residual sludge in there...but my fear is that i have lifted the head....

i think the limit off PD150 head bolts must be somewhere in the low to mid 40psi range....dont quote me...but it was only when i surpassed 40psi will good fueling that i began to have issues....

i have no issue with machining the nuts down, nor a socket....just curious if anyone has any further input/data on doing these? I think i am going to pull the motor in the next couple weeks, freshen up the bay, repaint the block/trans and get the head bolts ordered up, in hopes of eliminating any further issue...


i appreciate any feedback!
 

ryanp

Vendor
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Location
Barnsley, South Yorkshire, UK
TDI
Arosa CR - 550hp - 9.7 @ 150mph 1/4 Mile, Citigo 4x4 CR TDi - 340hp, Caddy 2.0 CR 4x4 TDI - 300+hp, Golf Mk2 Van 1.9 TDI - was 290hp, Mk5 Ibiza 2.0 FR TDi - 270hp, BMW 135d - 360hp, BMW 330d - 335hp, BMW 335d - 380hp + a few more ........
I have some custom head studs on the way as 50psi and a big EMP spike put coolant on the floor in the dyno room, haha! I'm still on the PD130 bolts (10.9 grade) as i wanted to see when it would leak!
 

Richptl

Vendor
Joined
Jan 11, 2011
Location
Apalachin, NY
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI automatic 305,000 miles
I sent an email to Raceware yesterday and it was $280 for a PD stud set from them. I am also not sure if that fits without bearing cap mods. I can get a set of PD150 bolts from Bora for $90, but they are not reusable. Any updates from any of you guys on how the ARP 8740 studs are holding up and if there is a more "plug and play" kit now from ARP.

I see it took years to really get a proper kit built for the ALH engines, people were using a kit designed for the Ford Cosworth for a long time until something specific for the ALH was developed.

I've got a VNT-17 making about 25 psig boost and 175 hp with PD150 injectors. I'm nowhere near as wild with boost and power output as you guys here.

Thanks for input.
 

JFettig

Vendor
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
I've got a VNT-17 making about 25 psig boost and 175 hp with PD150 injectors. I'm nowhere near as wild with boost and power output as you guys here.

Thanks for input.
you don't need head studs, or upgraded head bolts.
 

viking427

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Location
USA
TDI
VW
I wanted to update this old thread with additional info and questions specifically relating to PD head studs (only).

VE studs, early Cosworth - later genuine ARP kit etc. are covered at length elsewhere, as are the merits and costs of just using 12.9 ARL PD150 head bolts & washers ...That's not what is being discussed here.

Its worth noting at this point, some members/vendors have come up with their own solution for "true" PD head stud kits. To my knowledge, these are still the only "over-the-counter" options on the market for a turn-key PD head stud kit as of mid-2015;
*Darkside dvpt (UK); PD head stud kit, p/n DSD1256 (uses a 6 pt nut)
*Rosten performance (UK); PD head stud kit, p/n = ?
*Raceware (US); PD head stud kit, p/n RWE-1046 (rec'd to avoid).
*Whitbread's (custom) H11 PD head stud kit - exhausted.

This thread started out 4 years ago providing individual ARP part numbers to (potentially) put together a home brewed ARP PD head stud kit with ARP p/n's;

Material: ARP 8740 Chromoly, 200,000 psi yield strength, black oxide.
Stud: ARP p/n AU7.390-1LB
Nut: ARP p/n 300-8337 (10pk)
Washer: ARP p/n 200-8537 (10pk)

It was discovered the above parts together prevented the cam cap from sitting down flush on the head about 1/16", and the only apparent solution was to either;
a) Turn down the ARP 12 point nut's base, or "collar" from its factory 20.9mm dia. to ~18.5mm dia. (approx. same diameter as the PD150 bolt head).
-or-
b) Use no washer, or a thinner washer.
The ARL PD150 head bolt washer is a possibility if it fits over the ARP stud (untested). Its VAG p/n N90115701 and the same washer used on MK6 TDI head bolts.

To enable retorquing these ARP nuts without removing the cam caps, it is/was recommended to source a "thin wall" socket, or create one by turning down a deep 14mm socket to ~18.5mm

There was some initial concern over the depth these studs appeared to engage the block, compared to PD150 bolts, but there are at least a couple members who installed these ARP part numbers above successfully without problems.

So my current question is, ARP stud p/n AU7.390-1LB is the same stud at the heart of ARP stud kit p/n 202-4303 (possibly more). Which is early 90's Nissan SR20 2.0 Liter DOHC. It comes with studs, nuts and washers (10 pcs each) for about USD$125 market price. All I would need are thinner washers or turn down the nut collars - anyone attempt this kit yet or see flaws in this logic ? Not sure if its worth the ~$150 -$200 savings over the OTC kits mentioned above, but it may be worth investigating.
 
Last edited:

A7djc

Active member
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Location
Cambridge UK
TDI
Golf Mk4 Tdi 90bhp +
What is the latest answer with the pd head studs

Which options are available

Many thanks dave
 
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