Pay fine and fix emissions problem or buyback?

[Dieselchen]

makes me mad to see Her Winterkorn stepping down (resigning) AFTER he apologized for deliberately cheating and deceiving 11 Million customers and have the autocracy to cash in on his what he calls entitled retirement bonus of $32 Million??? That money should be frozen instantly by the German government and be contributed to the 11 Millionen car consumers (11 Million cars are affected worldwide) that were deceived, duped into believing the lies.
VW did not care back then, at this point I will NO LONGER care about THEM and give them ANY slack.
This wasn't just a "mistake" (they happen we all make them) it was DELIBERATE DECEIVING FROM THE BEGINNING!

 

[Dieselchen]

sorry I know I'm new and hope noone gets offended by my rant and capital letters I wrote.

 

[Dieselchen]

the buyback's from Toyota or Dodge's were not because of intentionally fraud, but it was a design flaw. There was no intent from the beginning as in our case here.

 

[Dieselchen]

I'm all for VW compensating (provide a brand new comparable vehicle) EVERY one of the 11 million affected consumers, VW going bankrupt and even have the German government pay up for this mess, as German politicians knew if the scam. They just turned a blind eye to it for many years because its Germany's backbone industry.
Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015...ssions-germany-politics-idUSKCN0RQ0BU20150926

 

[Dieselchen]

And all the morons
And all the stooges with their coins
They're the ones who make the rules, it's not a game it's just a rout
There's desperation
There's desperation in the air
It leaves a stain on all your clothes and no detergent gets it out

And we're always slipping through the cracks
Then the movie's over, fade to black
Life is a lemon and I want my money back

What about hope?
It's defective! It's corroded and decayed

 

[turbobrick240]

Please go away.

 

[metom2]

VW will have to buy back all the cars AND pay owners for being unwilling participants of fraud in driving cars that could not pass an emission test in USA.

The reason they have to buy back the cars is there is no FIX for this problem. If they turn on the emission control devices (which were not designed to run full time - don't forget) You have a vehicle you would of never purchased in the first place due to the incredible loss of performance and mileage you will get.

Your only choice is get rid of car at a loss or keep it and not fix it( and be polluting the hell out of the environment).

This is why I joined a class action lawsuit. There is no "fix" here folks and now we all have to find another vehicle (and it won't be a diesel).

Thomas

 

[efudd60]

I just hope they give me enough money to buy some good software that's currently available to reprogram the car after the fix to get even more horsepower, torque and mileage than it's getting now ��. 2015 Passat

 

[Serra]

Here is hoping that VW will not have much say in the matter and that the class-action lawsuits will force them to buy back vehicles. Sure, that's not for everyone, but if my 2010 SWJ loses performance or fuel economy with a software fix, I don't want to keep it. Even if it doesn't (unlikely), I feel sufficiently defrauded that I don't want to drive their logo through town anymore.

You don't understand how class action suits work. A buy back would never be part of the deal, since the lawyers wouldn't make enough off their percentage.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Seems that folks here are posting about buybacks based on what they'd like to see happen with their own situation...car value, loan outstanding, etc. That's like pricing your house for sale based on what you owe and how much cash you want out of it instead of its market value.

The idea of a buyback is appealing to people that are unhappy making payments or want to get out from under their TDI. But that's not how the decision will be made.

My impression from talking to dealers and folks in the industry is that a buyback is very unlikely. The '09-14 cars can meet emissions standards, they just need to be reflashed so they do. It may have a negative impact on emissions system component life, which might cause VW to extend the emissions warranty. And they may provide some kind of a cash incentive when you trade.

Keep in mind that the '15 and '16 cars can meet the standards. I've been told by a reliable source that the '16s don't have the second dyno program, and are ready to go when the EPA releases them. The '15s most likely just need a reflash. VW would be foolish to buy back cars that need a minor repair.

 

[dogcatcher]

As someone who owns a 2015 Passat (which was re-flashed last month and still doesn't meet emmissions) I can personally tell you that a reprogrammed computer does not fix the problem in my case. Additionally, the new programming dropped MPG as well as power. They did it when I took the car in for it's 1st service but didn't tell me why the program was necessary, just said it was an update. I didn't find out why my milage decreased until after I heard about dieselgate. As far as the older cars that don't already have the Uria system, adding one and programming may help, but mine already has it and it still runs dirty. I really hope VW either buys the cars back at the price paid or the company goes tits up. I'll never buy another VW. It's been said before, If the 2015-2016

It is not fair thay they misled the EPA and consumers and we bought their cars under what amounts to fraud and are unable to recoup our money. As of today, I have no faith in this company. They flat our lie about performance to get your money. If they lied about emissions, what else are they deceiveing their customers about? The possibilities are endless. This was really stupid on their behalf. And the chairman taking 32mil as he left was just another example of the unethical behavior over at VAG. Heads should have rolled with no pension. ****, I'd voluntarily leave my job for 32mil.

 

[imurrx]

The 7 billion dollars at Volkswagen has set aside for this quarter is not for owners compensation. Rather, it is to help with legal cost, research into a fix or an action plan, and to damage control marketing.

Will be more cost effective for Volkswagen to compensate for any reduction in the car's value, horsepower, torque, miles per gallon as a result of a detune of the engine.

Any compensation directly to the owners of the vehicles will probably not happen until next fiscal year to even out the cost. If if a buy back were to happen, that will probably one of the worst scenarios for owners. The most recent buyback has been the Fiat recall of this year. Owners were offered a price equal to the purchase price of their vehicle - asset depreciation cost plus an additional 10% on top of that. For those who of us who still owe money on the car is it may or may not be enough to cover the loan.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

dogcatcher, if your Passat sill achieves its advertised EPA fuel economy numbers with the fix in place, there's no misrepresentation, at least as it pertains to fuel economy. And if VW extends the warranty on emissions equipment post-fix I'm not sure you'd have anything to argue about.

It's possible that the extraordinary fuel economy that NMS Passat owners have experienced will go away. But it was beyond what VW advertised.

 

[Ron22]

You don't understand how class action suits work. A buy back would never be part of the deal, since the lawyers wouldn't make enough off their percentage.

The only winners in class action suits are the lawyers. I do not see how the win $$$ if it is a buy back.

 

[tariq]

I suspect we will see VW take a multipronged approach which includes various options for current owners. Some owners love their cars and want to keep them, some are fully disgusted and want to get rid of them, etc. Offering options which compensate customers fairly and generously will satisfy the majority folks. While expensive short term, this would be the best long-term solution imo for VW. Doing so would expedite putting this mess behind them, help retain customers/ rebuild trust AND reduce law suits. Thus, I see a buyback - both outright as well as a highly incentivized trade - as one option, a fix accompanied with compensation for the fraud as another, etc. The worst thing VW could do is only offer a "fix" as that is not going to satisfy the customer that never wants to be seen driving a TDI badged car again.

 

[ChemMan]

I suspect we will see VW take a multipronged approach which includes various options for current owners. Some owners love their cars and want to keep them, some are fully disgusted and want to get rid of them, etc. Offering options which compensate customers fairly and generously will satisfy the majority folks. While expensive short term, this would be the best long-term solution imo for VW. Doing so would expedite putting this mess behind them, help retain customers/ rebuild trust AND reduce law suits. Thus, I see a buyback - both outright as well as a highly incentivized trade - as one option, a fix accompanied with compensation for the fraud as another, etc. The worst thing VW could do is only offer a "fix" as that is not going to satisfy the customer that never wants to be seen driving a TDI badged car again.

Except VW doesn't care about not satisfying customers who don't want to be driving a TDI badged car. I doubt many of those disgusted customers are only disgusted with TDI and still absolutely in love with VW in general. Paying more to buy back vehicles they can fix is just wasting money. Now personally I would absolutely love in VW bought my vehicle at a reasonable price but it just isn't going to happen (unless the fix become impossible).

 

[tariq]

Except VW doesn't care about not satisfying customers who don't want to be driving a TDI badged car. I doubt many of those disgusted customers are only disgusted with TDI and still absolutely in love with VW in general. Paying more to buy back vehicles they can fix is just wasting money. Now personally I would absolutely love in VW bought my vehicle at a reasonable price but it just isn't going to happen (unless the fix become impossible).

I don't think it would be just wasting money on VW's part as doing so would buy them much needed good publicity which is going to help the brand recover quicker. Not offering that option will make a bad PR situation even worse.

 

[ChemMan]

I don't think it would be just wasting money on VW's part as doing so would buy them much needed good publicity which is going to help the brand recover quicker. Not offering that option will make a bad PR situation even worse.

Did Toyota buy back vehicles? Did GM? Both brands eventually recovered. Time heals all wounds. The reality is that manufacturers almost never buyback vehicles. It is an absolute last resort where the vehicle simply can not be fixed. I would be curious if you know of any example of a company buying back a vehicle it didn't have to.

 

[sandmansans]

Did Toyota buy back vehicles? Did GM? Both brands eventually recovered. Time heals all wounds. The reality is that manufacturers almost never buyback vehicles. It is an absolute last resort where the vehicle simply can not be fixed. I would be curious if you know of any example of a company buying back a vehicle it didn't have to.

Actually Toyota did buy back the Tacomas that had the frame rust issue...

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[sandmansans]

I'm more curious to see what happens in states with super tough lemon laws like NJ. Would lawyers argue that the car is in fact a lemon? That would either trigger a buy back or really steep financial compensation. I experienced the latter on my 2014 jetta. I live in Pennsylvania but purchased the car in NJ. My issue was minor, the back up camera not working intermittently, but that still cost VW a $5200 tax free payout to me not including the lawyers fee which they covered.

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[ChemMan]

Actually Toyota did buy back the Tacomas that had the frame rust issue...

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Did they have a fix and just voluntarily decided to buy vehicles instead of fixing them? Or did they buy them because the issue couldn't be fixed?

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

They also fixed many of them.

 

[thenewguy]

I sincerely hope that VW does not rush a hastily engineered "fix" for this so-called scandal. I'm still worn out from dealing with HFPF failure x2. That resulted in a major extension for the warranty for the HPFP. Given that VW still has not managed to engineer the HPFP to handle US diesel fuel, I can't even imagine how many problems there will be if VW rushes to modify our cars.

 

[sandmansans]

Did they have a fix and just voluntarily decided to buy vehicles instead of fixing them? Or did they buy them because the issue couldn't be fixed?

They did both. They fixed some and bought back others where the issue count be fixed..well that is couldn't be fixed at a reasonable cost, the fix itself would have cost more than the value of the truck.

Im not an expert on our cars emission system, but I would imagine some of the affected vehicles on that list could fall into a cheaper to buy back then fix scrnario.



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[tariq]

Did Toyota buy back vehicles? Did GM? Both brands eventually recovered. Time heals all wounds. The reality is that manufacturers almost never buyback vehicles. It is an absolute last resort where the vehicle simply can not be fixed. I would be curious if you know of any example of a company buying back a vehicle it didn't have to.

I suspect this case might be different due to the full intent to defraud aspect from the start - not just a cover-up after the fact - even though it does not rise to the individual safety issue of some of the other cases.

 

[tariq]

Im not an expert on our cars emission system, but I would imagine some of the affected vehicles on that list could fall into a cheaper to buy back then fix scrnario.



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I'm not an expert either but I think you may be right. Some of the affected cars - such as those like mine with no DEF system - will not be easy to fix.

 

[sandmansans]

I'm not an expert either but I think you may be right. Some of the affected cars - such as those like mine with no DEF system - will not be easy to fix.

Exactly my point. Now add in an older model with 200 thousand miles, the repair bill might be 2x the value of said car.

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[Jimmy Coconuts]

If the LNT cars could be fixed with a simple reflash, recall 2306 would have been the end of it.

I would bet there are a few daily driver test vehicles from each model year driving around Wolfsburg that operate in "test mode" full-time, just so VW could monitor how long the emissions systems would last in that configuration. If so, they will have a good idea how much it will cost if they are forced to offer long-term extended warranties for the emissions systems.

In any case, it won't take 12 months to formulate a plan. They have already had a 15 month head start.

 

[shportvagenLA]

If the LNT cars could be fixed with a simple reflash, recall 2306 would have been the end of it.
I would bet there are a few daily driver test vehicles from each model year driving around Wolfsburg that operate in "test mode" full-time, just so VW could monitor how long the emissions systems would last in that configuration. If so, they will have a good idea how much it will cost if they are forced to offer long-term extended warranties for the emissions systems.
In any case, it won't take 12 months to formulate a plan. They have already had a 15 month head start.

My car had a booklet next to the owners manual called California Emissions Warranties. They already have a long-term emissions warranty. Different parts out to different mileages between 70 and 150k.

I think if the newest TDI's don't sell well once they're allowed back on the market (and I honestly don't see why they would given the uncertainty and brand damage), VW's path of least resistance might be to offer a cheap upgrade option from LNT cars to ones with SCR. I think we're realizing that the older models can't get anywhere near NOx compliance without breaking them. So those cars would be headed toward a ****ty solution for everyone: massive fine to atone for the cars' inability to meet spec, and an engine that has still been maximally gimped.

 

[BarrieCommuter]

Do you feel comfortable having a mechanic at your dealership install the fix? What would be the expected cost to train said mechanics on the fix?


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