Passat Replacement based cabin size?

[Yankinwaoz]

Toyota Avalon?

I've been shopping for my replacement. I'm leaning towards a Toyota Avalon at this point. They have a hybrid version.

We looked at Lexus ES class. Very nice. But the rear seats don't drop down. All they offer is a small pass through window for snow skies. I drop the rear seats on my Passat all the time when I have large loads.

We are also considering a hybrid CUV or SUV too.

 

[atc98002]

Ah, but I have to have my little toys and bobbles!

 

[VeeDubTDI]

I've looked at the CMax as well, but the trunk space is rather sparse, especially the Energi. Drives nice, but I can't give up that much cargo space.

The CMax Energi is a very nice little vehicle! It's quick and spacious for passengers, but as you point out, the trunk space is definitely lacking due to the battery being back there.

Personally, if I were in the market for a CMax, I'd sacrifice the extra trunk space to have the Energi plug-in. 21 miles of all-electric range could cover a pretty significant portion of my driving routine, and the price after federal incentives is about the same as the regular hybrid.

 

[Ares]

I've been shopping for my replacement. I'm leaning towards a Toyota Avalon at this point. They have a hybrid version.
We looked at Lexus ES class. Very nice. But the rear seats don't drop down. All they offer is a small pass through window for snow skies. I drop the rear seats on my Passat all the time when I have large loads.
We are also considering a hybrid CUV or SUV too.

I drove a '16 ES 350 for about a week. I did not like the low seating position, soft seats, mushy driving dynamics, or the control layout. A very nice car, just too much Buick for me.

 

[Sigforty]

I have been looking at Buicks. The Regal and Lacrosse are both very close to all the interior dimensions of the Passat and in some exceed the Passat. The Regal is the closest to Passat size with the Lacrosse being a little bigger than the Passat. If you have not check out the 2017 Lacrosse as it looks really good compared to the older model.

 

[tdiatlast]

What a mess...we've gone from Passat to Toyota Avalon to Buick...

Thanks, VAG, for completely screwing up!

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

What a mess...we've gone from Passat to Toyota Avalon to Buick...
Thanks, VAG, for completely screwing up!

And somehow this is VW's fault? Have folks here lost their free will?

 

[pparks1]

Why didn't you look at 4 cylinder accord? I think trunk is 15.0. Plus you can buy one for the same as a civic right now. Should be able to buy a very nicely equipped 2016 closeout for 2k to 3k behind invoice. Like I said earlier, going to take a long time recoup the difference in gas savings on a hybrid vs a 4 cylinder accord. Plus, I would be concerned about long term reliability on Malibu... Also much smaller backseat in Malibu vs accord. Oh and seats fold down on ex and above non hybrid accords.

Civic was cheaper, Accord was better equipped.

I ended up buying a 4 cylinder accord ex-l. Price was pretty much same as what I paid for my 2013 Passat SE with Sun and Nav. My payment is $3 per month less, and my insurance is a bit cheaper

Trunk in Accord is 15.8, was 15.9 in Passat. So, the same.


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[APT]

Regal back seat is tiny, no matter what the numbers suggest. Same with Malibu. Lacrosse is close but still does not feel as big as the Passat back seat.

I have not heard much about GM's 2.0L turbo. I hate the 3.6L V6 in everything I've driven with it.

 

[tdiatlast]

And somehow this is VW's fault? Have folks here lost their free will?

I'd love some clarification on this statement, maybe best in a PM...

 

[bhtooefr]

I would certainly consider a hybrid to replace my Passat. However, since I'm looking to move back into a small SUV/CUV, The RAV4 is almost the only one on the market. And I'm just not ready to move to Toyota. Something about their appearance...

Now Lexus has the NX200h, but I can't get past the grille. Can't think of any other smaller hybrid SUV. Both the Subaru Forester and Mazda CX-5 fit my desired size, and both have improved their MPG significantly in the last few years. Not diesel level MPG, but far better than the Tiguan I used to have.

There's also the Toyota C-HR which will have a hybrid version (although FWD only at this point) using the Gen 4 Prius powertrain, but its styling is... uh... out there.

I've been shopping for my replacement. I'm leaning towards a Toyota Avalon at this point. They have a hybrid version.
We looked at Lexus ES class. Very nice. But the rear seats don't drop down. All they offer is a small pass through window for snow skies. I drop the rear seats on my Passat all the time when I have large loads.
We are also considering a hybrid CUV or SUV too.

I could have sworn the Avalon Hybrid had the same seating configuration as the ES 300h... but the Camry Hybrid has fold-down rear seats (but you still only get a window to pass things through, thanks to the awful battery layout). Fusion Hybrid might be a better bet in that regard, you still get a battery lump in the trunk, but AFAIK the passthrough with the seats folded down is more useful.

 

[weebl]

I've thought of this question, among other vehicle options and would only consider the buyback if miraculously, my buyback figure ends up being what I paid for the vehicle or pretty darn close. Otherwise, I will take the compensation and fix. But if the buyback is an option, then I would be hard pressed to find something that would fit me. Criteria for me would be, if staying with a midsize and looking brand new:

- manual transmission. I can live with a conventional slush box, but no DSGs or CVTs for me. I still feel DSGs are in their infancy and I'm not willing to take a chance. CVTs feel like junk to me, not even factoring the poor reliability

- equivalent trim options (Comfortline aka SE)

- no hybrids or electric

- feels good to drive and not sloppy

So my options? Gas Passat maybe in automatic, since the manual is now only on the base model, and a step down to the 5 speed versus the 6. Toyota Camry automatic, but road feel here is borderline for me. Honda Accord manual, but I am not a Honda fan. Subaru Legacy manual (they exist in Canada), but then the AWD tire issue is not ideal to me.

If I had to, it will probably come down to a shoot out between the Passat and Legacy.

But I may not even go there as there are other household fleet needs: a 3/4 or 1 ton diesel truck for camping trailer towing, likely a vehicle not to be used extensively except for camping trips (and will be an older truck). And a replacement for an aging minivan. Possibly new, and the old one becomes my commuter vehicle until it dies.

Ideal for me is to keep the Passat I have and add the truck to my fleet. And deal with the aging van if it needs replacing before my oldest turns 16 and buys it cheap from us.

 

[bhtooefr]

Mind you, the modern eCVTs can be extremely well-behaved, and extremely reliable. Hybrids do have the battery packaging problem right now, though (within the next few years, though, I predict that Toyota's midsize/fullsize FWD hybrids will have far better battery packaging - the IS and RC in Europe show one way to do it that even works on RWD cars (spare tire well mounting), the Prius c/Aqua/Yaris Hybrid and the Gen 4 Prius show another way to do it (smaller fuel tank, battery on top of fuel tank)).

 

[jw4free]

Good thread.

'15 Prius rear seat room is inadequate. I had a rental, and a 'middle aged' old man, young woman, and a 30 something we're quite uncomfortable. I was driving, it was funny, but really a disappointment.

Made me wish I had my Passat. I did average over 53 mpg for 500 miles over Labor Day weekend. Mainly just hauling 2 at or below the posted speed limit; hah.

 

[pparks1]

Regal back seat is tiny, no matter what the numbers suggest. Same with Malibu. Lacrosse is close but still does not feel as big as the Passat back seat.

I did a ton of research when I was comparing all of the cars. The rear seat room in the Malibu is almost identical to the Passat. Legroom in the Passat is 39.1 inches, while the Malibu is 38.1. Headroom in the Passat is 37.8 inches and 37.5 inches in the in the Malibu. That's 97.5% and 99.2% respectively.

The killer difference for me was the Passat's 18.5 gallon fuel tank versus the 13.0 gallon fuel tank of the Malibu. Coupled with far less mileage, that's a significant range difference.

 

[tdiatlast]

pparks: Range difference? I believe you, like me (and several others here!) are of an age that highway "range" isn't necessary, or even desirable. If I don't get up and MOVE my legs every 3-4 hours, everything gets all locked up.
So, for me at least, the necessity of "range" is more convenience than reality.
...just a thought...
(Still loving the Avalon [wish it weren't so "floaty"], getting 38mpg c/h, quiet as a tomb. CMax feels great, solid cabin, decent cabin space, trunk is compromised, of course. No regrets, just fingers crossed that the buyback happens w/o issues so I can pay off both cars!)

 

[jrm]

I like the range for long trips at night with the family, Load the family into the NMS after dinner and they fall asleep at around 8pm and we are only 2 hours away from Disneyland when they wake up the next morning
No traffic, cruse set at 79MPH, quick cat nap when we get there and I meet the family in the park by lunch time

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Since I tend to drink a lot of coffee on road trips I also tend to stop with some frequency. But stopping without having to buy fuel is a great luxury.

Last Monday I drove from Toledo to my home in my wagon without a fuel stop. Sure, I stopped, three times I think, but without having to buy fuel I don't have to worry about whether it's at a rest area or a service center. Nor do I worry about interstate service center fuel prices. And I noticed long lines at the service center fuel stops that day. If I had a gasser I would have had to buy fuel at least once, which could have taken as much as a half hour given the lines. That's time I'd rather not spend in a fuel line.

So to me at least, range does matter.

 

[tdiatlast]

All good points. We've been "spoiled" lazy by our TDIs!

 

[Skimax]

We're planning to keep ours but for those wanting rear legroom and a big trunk here you go.

https://classiccars.com/listings/vi...a11-for-sale-in-haverhill-massachusetts-01832

 

[pparks1]

Yeah, it was always great when we would travel to a destination for our daughters dance competitions and about 1/2 of the way there, our friends would pull off for fuel and they would say to me, don't you need fuel and I'd be like, "nope, still got 1/2 a tank". I'll easily make it all of the way there on the tank I started with.

 

[Rico567]

I like the range for long trips at night with the family, Load the family into the NMS after dinner and they fall asleep at around 8pm and we are only 2 hours away from Disneyland when they wake up the next morning
No traffic, cruse set at 79MPH, quick cat nap when we get there and I meet the family in the park by lunch time

You're young, aren't you?

 

[gforce1108]

You're young, aren't you?

That's how I used to drive too when I was younger. Last year I did the 10 hour drive to Myrtle Beach, with a stop in Washington DC (halfway point) and couldn't imagine doing it straight through again. The last time was in a Suzuki Sidekick convertible.

But - the range is still important to me. I go a little out of my way to fill up at a good diesel station (sometimes into NJ) and i can go 2 weeks between fillups if I drive the Passat every day. Since I switch between 3 cars, it might be a month on the two TDIs each.

 

[Deezil_n_Dachs]

We've decided to take the buy back as well. With close to 85K miles (mostly trouble free) on a 3.5 year old car, and the money they're offering it's hard to say no. The DEF heater has failed, and the re-gens are getting much more frequent recently for some reason. We shopped, visited dealerships, test drove about a dozen different vehicles. Fell in love with the Subaru Outback Touring edition, but the mileage is tough to accept. Nissan hit a grand slam with the Murano Platinum. The interior of that machine is spectacular, but once again the mileage was less that we need. That left us to choose between the Honda Accord Hybrid Touring and the Toyota Avalon Hybrid Limited. We test drove both of these, twice. The Avalon get's a little less per tank than the Accord, but the overall car quality and amenities are superior in our opinion. Cost more too. But, we pulled the trigger, took advantage of the $2500 Toyota rebate and got a couple of dealerships to bid against each other and used Truecar to help nail it down on a 2016 Limited. The plan is to park the Passat until the buyback. With the amount of driving my wife does I don't want to take the risk of something happening, and losing the buyback. And, as luck would have it, the defogger on my Silverado took a crap so I'm using the VW til that's fixed. I compared the specs of the Passat and the Avalon, and was extremely pleased to see how very close everything is. Especially the head and leg room. The only real significant loss is in cargo space as the Avalon loses 2 cuft to the Passat. I'm most certainly going to miss the strength of that little diesel engine when we drive through the mountains.

So, now I have a set of winter wheels, and the cable we bought to "tweek" the car settings. We won't be needing either of those anymore. I'll be keeping the winter tires. Also flirting with the idea of taking the Diesel Geek skid plate off, but that'll only be useful if the mounting kit can be purchased separately. Contact via private message if interested in anything.

 

[pparks1]

Nice choice on the Toyota Avalon. I looked at those when i was evaluating my decision as well. For me, it came down to the Honda Accord and the Chevy Malibu. The Avalon was just a bit more than I wanted to spend.

 

[Perfectreign]

I realize this is not Deiselgate thread but I am trying to get an idea of what some of you have considered replacing your Passat with?
Simply base it on interior space. Space while sitting in drivers space, that open feeling. Also, the large back seat.
Thanks in advance for opinions.

FWIW, my wife loves her '15 Passat 1.8t. Great speed, roomy (for a sedan) and awesome mileage. Was very inexpensive also.

Oddly enough, I reported in a thread some time ago, that my MK4 Jetta has more "room" in the drivers seat than her new Passat. (However, my Jetta is little more than a 2+2, while we can seat five easily in the Passat.)

 

[jrm]

You're young, aren't you?

Just turned 40, but feel better than I did when I was 30 I will admit, on the way home we stopped half way at Lake Shasta ( neat rest stop looking over the lake )for a cat nap- and that it was raining so heavily the interstate was a pond

 

[mtbsteve]

I posted these long comments over on Vortex but this thread is probably a better place. Not sure if people get upset at cross posting but to me it is all useful info. You can view the whole discussion or 2 of my posts below. Hope it helps those looking for a replacement based on interior space.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...g-their-TDI-in-for-and-who-s-keeping-it/page5

Cut and pasted from 2 posts:
1st post:
(first one was in reference to rear seat space comparing cars to a Mazda 6, a car that I really wanted to be able to fit the whole family in)

On paper maybe... Go sit in them. I am tall (6'5", normal for size 34" inseam) and if I have the seat all the way back I can still fit in the back with my knees just barely touching the back of the front seat in the Passat.

I have tried Fusion Hybrid/Energi models and Mazda 6GT, they don't even come close. I am squished in the back, knees pushing against the seats.

That being said, the front seats are way more comfortable in both of those than the Passat.

The thing I am working on now is if I can deal with scooting the front seat up a bit to a potentially uncomfortable position for when I have my kids in the car since dangling feet from car seats/booster seats take up a lot of space. Going to look into the Sonata PHEV which I had as a rental (non-phev though, normal base model) once, that was the only other car in this class that I *think* I remember being decently sized in the rear seat. Accord has decent rear space but felt I needed more seat travel but it just wouldn't go further.

If you are under 6'2" or have smaller inseam of 32" or less, any midsize will likely be fine.

2nd post:
Adding more to my post. Drove the 2016 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid Limited with Ultimate Package. Compared to the other cars I have tested as a replacement, this is the closest and is better in many ways than my 2012 Passat TDI SE w/roof/nav. Forget about spec sheets, this is the only other (Fusion, Mazda 6, new Malibu, 200) midsize that I can sit all the way back and still fit in the rear. The ceiling is a little low but since my kids are the only ones who will ever ride in the back, they will be fine for 10+ more years. I think the Accord was decent in the back too and have not tried the Camry.
I drove it on a similar route and conditions as I did the Fusion Energi, 6GT and my TDI. The Energi won because it had some charge in its battery to run electric only (I also ran it part way in hybrid mode since the main charge was low and only gave a mile+ of all electric) at 60+ mpgs, the 6 was around 28, my TDI around 33 and the Sonata Hybrid 40 mpgs. I have driven several Fusion Hybrids and Energis to know that without a charge and just in regular hybrid mode that I would have been around 34-35 mpgs. Could not take the Malibu Hybrid on the same loop but that car drove really nice.
Back to the Sonata, it is loaded. Around me these are MSRP of $35.5k but on the lot with rebates for about $10k under that. The plug ins are higher at $39k loaded but have seen quotes form dealers at $32.5. That is before Federal tax credit of $4,919 and Massachusetts rebate of $1,500. I think those are very competitive numbers even if I don't qualify for all rebates.
Compared to the Passat, the interior and exterior styling is different but very conservative, just like the Passat. There are some interior places that look cheaper but it really is a wash. The only one I disliked is the Sonata shifter, that does feel cheap compared to the DSG shifter. That is also the Sonatas other big plus, it has a real 6 speed auto instead of a CVT so it drives "normal". It allows a taller 6th gear so it is probably the only Hybrid that gets better mpgs on the hwy than city. That is a plus for the 3% of the time you want to be "sporty" and shift yourself (sport mode too, for what its worth) while driving in comfort for the rest of your boring commute in traffic.
Just get over the Hyundai badge, which after driving is pretty easy, and I think you have the best competitor to the TDI we all have enjoyed, and it is about $3-4k less than I paid 5 years ago and way more loaded than an SEL of anytime.

 

[jhinsc]

Agree with MTBSteve on his commentary about the Sonata Hybrid. I bought one last week and even the trunk is decent because it's flat, and not oddly shaped like other mid-sized hybrids. You'll note it's slightly more shallow than the Passat's but very usable for Costco runs, golf bags, luggage, etc. I also love the 6-speed auto vs CVT. I previously owned a 2010 Prius and 2013 Prius v. Driving around town they're okay and get great mileage, but on long distance drives with any hills/mountains, the ICE really revs up to a noisy high pitch whine, to the point it's annoying. The Sonata is very quiet and rides very smooth. My only gripe is it drives like a luxury car, not the tight, sporty drive you get in the Passat - that's the one thing I will miss. Sightlines are also very good, similar to the Passat, Camry, and Accord.

As for my current Passat TDI, I am holding on to it until the buyback. The A/C stopped working and after the 3rd trip to the dealer to rectify, they quoted an estimated $1,500 repair bill (did not do repairs) stating replacement of the condenser and clearing the system of debris was needed. That alone wouldn't have stopped me from considering another Passat 1.8T model, but the dealer wasn't offering anything beyond msrp minus rebates. I was expecting at least invoice minus rebates. What bothered me is both sales and service have known for months I was turning my TDI back in. Another irritating point was during the 3 trips to the dealer to rectify the A/C problem, my mileage went from under 50K mile to over 50K, costing me between $400 and $500 at buyback time.

In this day and age, with so much info available at the touch of button, it doesn't take much effort to find a good deal and can't understand why dealers take the approach that the internet doesn't exist and you haven't done any research. When I received the offer on a new Passat, I told them it wasn't competitive and they expressed surprise at my statement. Really???? Considering the diesel fiasco, I feel a halfway decent deal should have been offered, or at least invoice minus rebates to start. On top of the A/C problem, the dealers initial offer on a new car Passat annoyed me. So I made the decision I wasn't going bother putting any more effort into buying a new Passat then the dealer did trying to sell me one, and I was done with VW. It wasn't one thing in particular that put me over the edge, but the combination of it all that made me feel I was done. My Sonata cost me $4,000 less than a similar equipped 2016/17 Passat. I can rest easy knowing I got a great deal, plus as I'm getting older, I guess I can get used to a more luxurious ride.

 

[bhtooefr]

I previously owned a 2010 Prius and 2013 Prius v. Driving around town they're okay and get great mileage, but on long distance drives with any hills/mountains, the ICE really revs up to a noisy high pitch whine, to the point it's annoying.

Some of that will simply be because it's a relatively low-powered engine, so it needs to rev high to get to the power it's got, if you really demand it. Gen 4 is better about prioritizing electric usage, to keep revs low, although it'll still rev high if you ask for a lot of power, or if the battery goes to a low state of charge.

Having an eCVT has nothing to do with it revving that high.