Parting ways with my Golf TDI, but what next?

[g_bus]

Hi folks,
Yes, another "what to replace my TDI with after buyback" post, but was hoping for some more specific info from some people that have a bit more experience than me. My apologies if I've posted this in the wrong forum. I'm planning to take advantage of the buyback option, and had been considering buying a new car this year anyways, so the timing just worked out well. I had been drooling over the possibility of the TDI Alltrack for a long time, but, well, guess that's out the window. Was totally sold on the diesel movement and had planned to be TDI for life, but that just got a lot trickier. Anyways, for brevity's sake I'll list the rest of my info/questions.

Currently have 2011 Golf TDI, 150k+ miles, manual, 2 door. This is my first VW BTW, so don't have a lot of experience with other VW models to compare it to.

Love/like: That torque! Handling, practicality of a hatch, reliability. Quick enough, especially once rolling.

Dislike: That I got a 2 door. Def going with 4 next time. Crappy blind spot. Expensive oil changes, even DIY. Otherwise love the car.

Needs/wants/etc: I drive a lot for work. Often 200+ miles per day several days a week. And I live in the Shenandoah valley, so am regularly driving on windy mountain roads, with a fair bit of rough gravel roads as well. I'm a mountain biker and snowboarder, so ability to handle those conditions is a huge plus, but not determining factors for vehicle purchase (have an old Explorer for that). Must be comfortable and fun to drive, since I'll be spending a lot of time in it. Doesn't need to be a racecar, but performance is definitely a consideration. And fuel economy is going to be a big one. Will be hard to go from mid 40's (otherwise it'd be another WRX in the driveway). Really want that torque to get over the mountains.

Considering: Golf TSI (Maybe APR chip), Sportwagen (maybe w/AWD), Mazda 3. Or the possibility of trying to pick up a slightly used newer TDI, or even an older one if I can find one with super low mileage (be nice to not have a car payment, but reliability of older vehicle is a big concern considering the amount of driving I'll be doing). And then there's the GTI. Soooooo tempting. Mpg isn't bad vs the performance, and has pretty much everything else I'm looking for aside from AWD (Golf R is def not in the budget). Honestly my current ride is fast enough for me, but the ability to get over the mountains without downshifting is great. So power is more important than speed (but speed doesn't hurt). And of course the handling to support it.

So if you've made it this far I really appreciate you hanging in there, and hope you can give me some helpful input. I'm likely going to need to do a pretty quick turnover once I sell my car back and buy a new one, so I want to gather as much info as possible before since I probably won't have a lot of time to shop around. A lot of it will probably come down to what kind of deal VW wants to offer me to keep my business (maybe some 2016s they're trying to move), but the dealership I'll be working with for the buyback has a Mazda lot as well. I'm kind of concerned that if I drive a GTI I'll buy one, and it might not be the best option for me in the long run (or maybe it is, who knows? But I'd prob have to go used to fit the budget).

Oh yeah, and then there's price. Not trying to drop a ton of cash. If going new or newish would like to keep it in the low $20k's (that probably eliminates some options). No problem with slightly used, but don't want to have to dump a bunch of money into it either, and I know financing offers can make new more affordable than used in some cases.

So to summarize:
Would I be happy with a TSI having come from a TDI? Would a GTI seem like a better fit for what I'm looking for? Would a Mazda 3 maybe be a better consideration? And are there any other cars that are contenders that I should look into? Thanks again, and so much for brevity!

 

[Tin Man]

Lots of nice cars to choose from. None of the gassers would get the fuel economy of a 4 cylinder diesel unless you go into the subcompact class like a Ford Fiesta or used Mazda 2.

Consider an AWD base Jaguar XE 2.0d that can be had at 1.9% interest with a 5 year 60,000 mile full warranty and service. Probably can get close to $35K on the price which may be more than you want. No manual transmission though.

The Chevy Cruze will be out with a sedan diesel with a manual transmission in your price range. Not AWD but I believe the small CUV's of GM may have a future diesel option.

TM

 

[CT_Gman]

If you want to stick with a VW, test drive a GLI. It would be in your price range and meet your criteria. I just changed from a 2011 Golf TDI 2 door manual myself, but I went with a Jetta Sport (no longer made after 2016) to contain costs, but retain some of the GLI features.

 

[bennybmn]

Take a long look at Mazda.

 

[whatnxt]

Mazda CX5 is supposed to be released in a diesel mid 2017.

 

[g_bus]

Thanks for the input so far. Jag is def not in the budget, and considering my Dad's experience with them in the past I don't exactly have a lot of faith in the brand for the money. Be nice to see Mazda introduce some diesel options in the states but I'm not holding my breath on seeing any new diesel technology popping up anytime soon after VW pretty much ruined that for us in the states (despite it being more eco friendly on several levels.) Any other thoughts on VW hatchbacks that might match/exceed my current performance? Otherwise I'm thinking a '16 Mazda3 might be the way to go.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Golf or GTI are good options, but if I were shopping for a gasoline car now I'd also give a Civic serious thought. Big as an Accord from three generations ago, new platform, available with a manual and NA as well as turbo engines in 2017. Interior is improved, car is getting great reviews.

 

[theprimer]

I would definitely vote for a Civic. Car is sublime.

 

[Dimitri16V]

Golf TSI

 

[narongc73]

This thread has so much fail

 

[PlaneCrazy]

Golf TSI

That ended up being my "vote", as I got a TSI, just before dieselgate broke as my Mk VI TDI was a lemon and out of warranty. That said, the new Civic hatch would probably be my no. 2 choice even though I think it is ugly on the outside, the inside looks very nice and I've had good experiences with Hondas in the past. Bland, but reliable, but better than a Toyota.

For pure fuel economy a Jetta 1.4 TSI would be a good choice but I wouldn't be keen on giving up the practicality of the hatch. I'm a road biker and often drive to my rides and the ability to get my road bike in the back without taking any wheels off is a big plus. If we need to take two bikes (my wife rides as well but still works during the week; I'm retired), then we take her wagon. Hers is a TDI and will be bought back as well, and will likely be replaced with a TSI wagon.

Real-world fuel economy in the low 40s on the highway is possible if you keep it to about 100-105 km/h (up to 65 mph), and it uses regular gas which right now about 7 cents per litre cheaper than diesel here so in terms of operating costs, it's pretty much a wash. The smaller fuel capacity is a pain though (50L instead of 55L), but on the highway 750 km per tank is doable and 800 might be in ideal conditions. In summer I average around 37 mpg in mostly rural driving.

It has good low-end torque, 185 lb-ft @ 1600-4200 rpm, and a much better top-end than any 2.0L TDI we were able to get over here; and the automatics do better at 199 lb-ft. The reality is that is has plenty of low-end grunt to get up the hills; more so in fact than any 1.9 TDI of any vintage, and a good top end for overtaking, etc.

Big bonus, it is much MUCH quieter and smoother than a TDI. We drove the same car with a 2.0 TDI in the UK this past summer and both my wife and I remarked about how much smoother the 1.8 TSI is.

I bought a base model; in 2016 that included Apple CarPlay, heated seats, multifunction leather steering wheel and shift knob, full multi-function display, back-up camera (great for the notorious Golf blind spot when reversing) and tons of other features. I traded a Mk VI Highline for it, and it doesn't at all feel like a downgrade, and it was a full $10k cheaper than my Mk VI Highline. Only things missing are leather, fog lights, sunroof and 16" wheels and frankly I prefer cloth, and 15" wheels on our bad roads. I also put in aftermarket R replica HIDs that work great and more than make up for the lack of fog lights.

So if you want to stick with VW I'd say give the Golf a try. It is much better value than a GTI. The GTI is a great car, don't get me wrong, but as a daily driver with lots of commuting like the OP does, a standard Golf will give enormous satisfaction at a fraction of the price, much better fuel economy, with still decent performance. Moreover the Golf wagon is immensely practical, more so than many SUVs. It is available with AWD but that will extract a fuel economy penalty. A FWD wagon is still a nice ride.

So far my TSI has been utterly trouble-free in 31,000 km. There is a recall for the fuel evap system I need to address soon, and there was an update to Apple CarPlay that fixed a few early glitches, but so far that's been it.

As for Mazda, a good friend of mine has a CX-5, and personally I don't find it as well-built as my Golf, the plastics feel cheaper and it is noisier.

 

[tdidieselbobny]

It's all up to you. Look at local VW dealerships around you to see what '16's they have left,probably not many. Do you want fuel economy or versatility most? I have seen some '16 Passats for under $20k,but they are all automatic now. The only new VW's I've seen w/ a manual are the Jetta sedans and the GTI's. I was getting low to mid 40mpg range in summer/fall w/ the 5spd in my Jetta TSI 5spd,but the snow tires and cold have knocked that down to mid-upper 30mpg range now. I'd suggest maybe renting a car for a week so you don't have to "rush" into a decision.I don't know if a GTI is premium fuel engine or not,so check into that.

 

[Diesl]

From your likes and dislikes it sounds like you should look for a lower mileage 4 door 2012-2014 Golf TDI. Or maybe a Jetta Speedwagon (which really is a Golf). Everything else just seems like a foul compromise.
You could wait and see whether fixed 2015s ('new') appear on the market, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[g_bus]

Thanks for all of the input, especially for that in-depth review PlaneCrazy! That was pretty much what I was looking for. Since posting I've taken a few test drives of the cars in question: Mazda3, Golf TSI and GTI. Man, this is a tough one. In the end may just come down to who can get me the best deal. New 2016s are pretty much gone (as I assumed they would be), but used isn't out of the question. I wasn't disappointed with the TSI, but would need a more extended test drive as it would still take some getting used to how it drives to get a real feel for it. The GTI was pretty much like everyone says: way too damn much fun to drive, and an obvious improvement in the tranny over the TSI. 3 was super nice though, and felt great to drive. Didn't lack in power, just had to get used to the powerband, but def was a different ride than either VW. For a regular daily driver I think that is probably at the top of the list, but I think both VWs had a little more of the fun factor going for them. Being that I'm coming from a similar vehicle I felt a little more comfortable in the dubs, so that could be making my opinions a bit more biased. The dealer recommended a Wolfsburg for me if I were to go with a Golf in order to get the options I wanted, which gets it a little but closer in price to a base GTI. One of the dealerships I spoke with does appear to be an APR dealer, so I inquired as to how/if an APR chip would affect the warranty, so I'll see what they say. That could make a big difference in my decision if that seems to be a viable option to upgrading a TSI. Not a lot of performance options for the 3 in regards to the engine, so I'd pretty much just have to settle for what it comes with if I go that route. Speed isn't my goal here, but it's nice to know that I still had somewhere to go if I wanted a little more power, so VW is the obvious choice there. And yes, trying to find a super-low mileage 2015 TDI is a consideration too. Scheduled my buyback appt today for March 9, so we'll see what pops up in the meantime. Thanks again.

 

[dubStrom]

This thread has so much fail

On a turbo diesel enthusiast website, no less! Small I4 Turbo diesel delivers adequate torque that you can actually USE while getting 40+ mpg. No TSI does that, although the 1.4TSI in the Jetta sedan certainly delivers the mileage.

OP g bus-note that VW recommends expensive oil for the 1.8 TSIs, and the cars you are test driving don't have the torque (unless revved to higher rpms, 20-25mpg territory!!).

It took a distracted Uber driver to tear my 2014 JSW away from me. Totaled. I was set to take the restitution, or just walk away from the settlement and keep the JSW. Simply the best car I've EVER owned, bar none.

So I got a replacement-used ALH wagon. Yes, they are out there!

[/url]Rside by gs1100ghoot, on Flickr[/IMG]

[/url]Badge by gs1100ghoot, on Flickr[/IMG]

The engine needs rebuild, so I got a nice deal on it.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

On a turbo diesel enthusiast website, no less! Small I4 Turbo diesel delivers adequate torque that you can actually USE while getting 40+ mpg. No TSI does that, although the 1.4TSI in the Jetta sedan certainly delivers the mileage.

I disagree completely. The Golf 1.8 TSI delivers more torque than either an ALH or BEW (PD) like the one in your picture, in a much broader torque band, with peak torque starting at 1600 rpm. Not 1750 like the earlier TDIs. And it keeps the peak all the way up to 4200 RPM. I don't see how that is NOT usable torque.

Moreover, at 65 mph max on the highway, I can indeed exceed 40 mpg (42 to be exact) and average 36-37 (in mostly rural driving). At least from snow tires off to snow tires on.

The 1.4 delivers even better mileage, and has the same low-end torque as the 1.8 in the manual versions (185 lb-ft). The 1.8 in the automatic has even more torque, 199, but mileage does suffer.

The 1.8 TSI was economical enough when I was shopping that paying $3k more for a TDI (still on the books at the time) made no economic sense for me, and the TSI is more drivable than a TDI because of the broader torque band, as well as smoother and quieter.

I still like TDIs, mostly for the range, and if (non-cheating) TDIs were still available we'd consider it for the buyback mostly for that reason and cross our fingers that the complex emissions plumbing wouldn't end up costing and arm and a leg. Our wagon is our road trip car and the extra range is a nice to have.

It will be interesting BTW to see how FCA handles their EPA crisis... they've stopped selling diesels because of it.

 

[dubStrom]

I disagree completely. The Golf 1.8 TSI delivers more torque than either an ALH or BEW (PD) like the one in your picture, in a much broader torque band, with peak torque starting at 1600 rpm. Not 1750 like the earlier TDIs. And it keeps the peak all the way up to 4200 RPM. I don't see how that is NOT usable torque.
Moreover, at 65 mph max on the highway, I can indeed exceed 40 mpg (42 to be exact) and average 36-37 (in mostly rural driving). At least from snow tires off to snow tires on.
The 1.4 delivers even better mileage, and has the same low-end torque as the 1.8 in the manual versions (185 lb-ft). The 1.8 in the automatic has even more torque, 199, but mileage does suffer.
The 1.8 TSI was economical enough when I was shopping that paying $3k more for a TDI (still on the books at the time) made no economic sense for me, and the TSI is more drivable than a TDI because of the broader torque band, as well as smoother and quieter.
I still like TDIs, mostly for the range, and if (non-cheating) TDIs were still available we'd consider it for the buyback mostly for that reason and cross our fingers that the complex emissions plumbing wouldn't end up costing and arm and a leg. Our wagon is our road trip car and the extra range is a nice to have.
It will be interesting BTW to see how FCA handles their EPA crisis... they've stopped selling diesels because of it.

Misread my statement. You can make torque in the TSIs, but at the expense of more fuel than the TDI uses to make the same torque. 40 versus 30 mpg, essentially.

I drive a 1.8 TSI Passat now as a daily driver. It's fast if I want it to be... but I get just over 30mpg in the city, and my JSW would get 41-42. AND,THAT is being more careful than I had to be in the '14JSW. The TDI would get 40-42 mpg average even if using that acceleration more forcefully early on, whereas the TSI Passat dips into teens, then 20s until you are cruising (lift foot to just maintain speed), averaging 30mpg.

ALH and BEW are not as spry as he CRs, but not far off. 15-20% better FE, 5-10% more expensive fuel. And nice LOW end torque for city driving. That has been my experience. I had a '03 ALH with an automatic, and could not get better than 36 mpg. I am hoping to do better in the wagon with a 5MT.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

Well I routinely (in summer) average around 36 mpg in my TSI, and while I'm parsimonious about using the torque, I do use it when I need it especially as I live in a fairly hilly area. It's a pretty good tradeoff: torque when you need it, low fuel consumption when you don't (and are otherwise gentle). So far my winter average has been running about 33-34 mpg.

Since TDIs aren't going to be back on the market for a while (perhaps never), if one *must* have a gasser, it's a pretty good deal. Since I retired and don't commute any longer, can live with it.

As I recall my BEW would average about 5.3 L/100 km, which is 53 mpg (imperial) or 44 mpg (US). Given the cost of diesel being on average more than RUG up here, the difference in operating cost is not enough to justify the higher purchase cost of a TDI (when it was still in the catalogue).

 

[redbarron55]

I bought a 2015 Passat 1.8 TSI and I am very happy with it.
It runs just as well and is quieter and has better power at highway passing speeds.
With the difference in cost of fuel the TSI is as good or better and you can get fuel anywhere and not worry so much.

 

[PlaneCrazy]

I would add, that at least in manual transmission form, the 1.8 TSI "feels" torquier than the TDI. That's because the final drive ratio on the TDI 6-speed is taller than on the 1.8 TSI. So on hills around here that invariably resulted in a 6-5 downshift, the TSI just chugs right up in top gear (5th). If you left the TDI in 5th all the time in the hills around here it would be a different story though, but the difference still wouldn't feel so big.

To be honest, I can't say I miss my TDI. When I drive my wife's now, I'm really happy to get into my quieter, smoother and faster TSI Golf. Even in winter on snow tires I'm averaging nearly 35 mpg; mind you it has been a mild winter.

Soon my wife will have her own. We will take the VW buyback. Her TSI wagon is already ordered and a build date assigned, week 12 2017. Silk Blue, Trendline with the Connectivity Plus package (CarPlay + leather multi-function steering wheel and leather gear shift knob and parking brake lever)