Paralyzed and Agonizing: Buyback vs Fix 2013 TDI JSW

[KITEWAGON]

Amen on low mileage TDI users.

Some people just want all the torques. And they want them down low without having to wind up the motor.

I tried to move on to a gasser because I "don't need the good mileage" with my short commute. But the diesel is the way to travel for me.

 

[16vjohn]

Take the fix man. I had a 13 Passat I bought used with 13k. The Jetta I bought new. I liked the Passat more than the Jetta, but I decided to keep the Jetta because it was immaculate and I knew the entire service history. If you really do like the car, keep it. With the restitution cash, I'm basically at the price point of a Nissan Versa.

 

[MyTDIRocks]

Thank you everyone for your valuable input! I'm definitely leaning towards keeping the TDI and getting the fix with all this info however I came across a brand new '18 Jetta (gas) that meets (most of) my requirements. If I went the buyback route, I'd be pocketing about 7K and driving away with a new car (and start from scratch with a 6-yr warranty). I haven't test driven it, but it's tempting.

With this potential scenario in mind, I'd be pocketing about the same either way (buyback or fix) but with the buyback I'd be driving a new car vs keeping the TDI. Only difference is if I got the fix, I'd have a much longer warranty for the engine but any other mechanical parts for a 6-yr old car would be out of pocket. On the -ve side, the gas car's lifespan would be shorter in the long run but I most likely would have zero issues with it for at least the next 6 yrs (ie. zero maintenance costs except for tires maybe).

I may need to do a bit of research on the maintenance history for gas Jettas (vs TDIs). I have a couple of months to figure this out.

 

[tadawson]

. . . . and you'd be driving a <blechhhhhhh> gasser . . . .

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I owned a '12 Golf (not a Sportwagen) and now have a '15 GSW. I much prefer the '15. I never liked the MKV/VI platform much. I miss the cloth seats (don't think you got those on the JSW anyway) but that's about it.

And MyTDIRocks, I'm sure you realize that Jetta Sedans are assembled in Mexico, not Germany. AFAIK the only '18 VW in North America that's assembled in Germany is the Golf R.

 

[Fourplay]

Thank you everyone for your valuable input! I'm definitely leaning towards keeping the TDI and getting the fix with all this info however I came across a brand new '18 Jetta (gas) that meets (most of) my requirements. If I went the buyback route, I'd be pocketing about 7K and driving away with a new car (and start from scratch with a 6-yr warranty). I haven't test driven it, but it's tempting.

With this potential scenario in mind, I'd be pocketing about the same either way (buyback or fix) but with the buyback I'd be driving a new car vs keeping the TDI. Only difference is if I got the fix, I'd have a much longer warranty for the engine but any other mechanical parts for a 6-yr old car would be out of pocket. On the -ve side, the gas car's lifespan would be shorter in the long run but I most likely would have zero issues with it for at least the next 6 yrs (ie. zero maintenance costs except for tires maybe).

I may need to do a bit of research on the maintenance history for gas Jettas (vs TDIs). I have a couple of months to figure this out.

Why would you not just take the buyback and buy a newer/lower mileage TDI? A lot of the 3.0L vehicles (Q5, A6, A7, etc) can be had very cheap with low miles because there was no buyback program for them, so used values tanked.

Or, buy a gas vehicle (doesn't have to be a Jetta) and use the excess cash from your buyback to buy an extended warranty/maintenance plan, if that's a concern.

Don't see why there's any hemming and hawing at all, you can drive the TDI for a few more months and get top dollar for it in a buyback scenario. Keeping it is foolish - it's a six year old car and stuff is going to break that isn't covered under the TDI warranty.

 

[tadawson]

I think he covered that early on - the buybacks he has seen are not what he wants, and he can do just about as well with the fix . . . without compromise . . .

- Tim

 

[Fourplay]

I think he covered that early on - the buybacks he has seen are not what he wants, and he can do just about as well with the fix . . . without compromise . . .

- Tim

I may have missed exactly how many miles he has, but assuming 35k miles and a September 2018 trade-in, his buyback is $25k. Repair payment is $6600.

You can get a 2-3 year newer Jetta with similar mileage and options for $14k. That means for the buyback amount, you could buy 1.8 newer Jettas. With the buyback, you come out ~$4400 ahead vs. the repair. Maybe there is a premium to knowing/owning the full history of a car, but it's not $4400 on a $14k car.

All of this assumes he is stuck on buying a used TDI Jetta, which is not what my first choice would be with $25k, but different strokes for different folks.

 

[bizzle]

All of this assumes he is stuck on buying a used TDI Jetta, which is not what my first choice would be with $25k, but different strokes for different folks.

When I suggested that a gas Jetta might be more fitting for his lifestyle I got jumped on by a few people who refuse to acknowledge the pros and cons of diesel power. I have a 98 Beetle with damn near 300K miles...and an eGolf with 10K miles...and a few in between (traded up from a 2012 JSW to a 2015 GSW).

The fact of the matter is that people are repeating certain "factoids" without regard to context. A diesel *can* motor on for far longer than its gas version, but that's only under certain circumstances. There's nothing that would prevent a 1.8 Jetta from hitting 200K and that's not a particularly high mark to hit for a diesel anyway...depending on how it's maintained and driven. If you put 5K miles on diesel by way of short hops through town that's going to wreak havoc on all the things that lend to diesel longevity. More to the point here, the city mannerisms of our cars are taking the hardest hits from the fixes.

You enjoy that punch off the line? That's gone according to widely reported experiences--mine included. Of course, you have a manual so maybe it's not as hard hit but you can get lots of pull from a gasser. If you want punch, and you have $25K, try a GTI. Better yet, grab an eGolf for about $5K out of pocket for a 3 year lease (accounting for the $2500 California EV rebate; varies by state) or buy one for a song. If your trips are under 100m round trip, you'd be able to renew a lease for similar pricing driving a <3 year car for anywhere from 10-15 years!

That's just one option. Like I wrote earlier, and some seem to have mis-read, I don't know your driving needs/wants. Saying, "if you bought it for X, it might not be as good a fit as Y" is not judgement or assuming. A statement of, "if you wear size 32 pants, you should buy 34 because these run small" is a conditional statement without any judgement or assumption about you or size 32 pants, in general. It's simply, "If X is true, then Y is..." but if X *isn't* true then it doesn't apply.

But realistically, why so hung up on this 200K point? You're driving 8K per year. Did you run the numbers? I did...it'll take you roughly 25 years to hit 200K. To be frank, unless you are being melodramatic, the amount of stress indicated in the thread title makes it seem like some people won't live long enough to worry about how long these TDIs will or won't hold up.

 

[jibberjive]

Looks like there are a lot of Golf wagons, I'm looking for a Jetta though and when I do a search on that, there are no 2015's - mine's a 2012 w/ low mileage, so 2015 would be the only one worth looking into imo. Not enough difference w/ the older ones to make it worth selling mine esp. since mine has had NO issues whatsoever. I'll keep looking.. maybe I'll get lucky and find something... it's all about timing

Oh, I also thought you were looking for Golf Sportwagen.

I think loving what you drive is important, so do that first. But as far as finances, especially with you being someone who doesn't drive a ton of miles, there isn't really a financial scenario that makes the economic case to not trade-in/trade-up. If you really love the TDI torque and you don't worry about gas mileage, like mentioned, you could probably even get into a 3.0tdi car with almost nothing out of pocket. And those engines are worlds apart as far as torque.

Good luck with whatever you choose!

 

[tadawson]

I may have missed exactly how many miles he has, but assuming 35k miles and a September 2018 trade-in, his buyback is $25k. Repair payment is $6600.

You can get a 2-3 year newer Jetta with similar mileage and options for $14k. That means for the buyback amount, you could buy 1.8 newer Jettas. With the buyback, you come out ~$4400 ahead vs. the repair. Maybe there is a premium to knowing/owning the full history of a car, but it's not $4400 on a $14k car.

All of this assumes he is stuck on buying a used TDI Jetta, which is not what my first choice would be with $25k, but different strokes for different folks.

He clearly stated that he could not find a manual similar to his, thus negating that entire argument. It isn't just about money!!!!

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

He clearly stated that he could not find a manual similar to his, thus negating that entire argument. It isn't just about money!!!!

VW is feeding some substantial portion of the 300,000 bought back cars into the used market. I'm dubious that there aren't similar cars out there, or won't be soon. I looked at an '15 Passat Manual with 10K on it Saturday. The dealer had one more in stock, and another one on its way. And that's a pretty rare TDI.

 

[tadawson]

I'm just going by what the OP said, and the simple observation that he may not regard the $$$ as a compelling reason to walk away from what he owns, knows, and likes . . . It's not just about $$$!

 

[1.8]

Indigo-our experience with TDI's ended with the 2004 my; our 'Mexican' sedans were of
higher quality than the wagons from the Fatherland-the drivetrains were completely made in Germany though.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

TDI engines are mostly assembled in Poland until very recently when they opened an engine plant in Mexico. Transmissions are made in various locations, including Germany, Poland, and, I think, Argentina.

Between me, my sons, and co-workers we've seen a lot of MKIV TDIs, some from Germany, some from Mexico, some from Brazil. It's difficult to tell any difference in quality between the assembly locations.

 

[ezshift5]

Thank you everyone for your valuable input! I'm definitely leaning towards keeping the TDI and getting the fix with all this info however I came across a brand new '18 Jetta (gas) that meets (most of) my requirements. If I went the buyback route, I'd be pocketing about 7K and driving away with a new car (and start from scratch with a 6-yr warranty). I haven't test driven it, but it's tempting.


I may need to do a bit of research on the maintenance history for gas Jettas (vs TDIs). I have a couple of months to figure this out.

Regret delay in getting back to you 'rocks.......

After 7500 miles on my 2017 Jetta TSi S 1.4 turbo/5M, Fuelly dot com shows me averaging 39.3 MPG in 70City/30Highway.

This is better than I expected - coming from the JSW TDI 6M which averaged - Fuelly again - 44.2 over 50,000 delightful miles.

I do miss the torque, space and Vtex - - but the OTD $14.3 price + the ten large I banked somehow have a calming affect of the loss of my bar-setting TDI wagon.

all the best,

ez

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Regret delay in getting back to you 'rocks.......I do miss the torque, space and Vtex - - but the OTD $14.3 price + the ten large I banked somehow have a calming affect of the loss of my bar-setting TDI wagon.

And what would you have banked had you gotten the wagon fixed? Maybe not that much less, and you'd still be driving a TDI.

 

[ezshift5]

And what would you have banked had you gotten the wagon fixed? Maybe not that much less, and you'd still be driving a TDI.

IBW, your point(s) well taken.

I had 50k worth of pleasure......simultaneously with my particular HPFP/DPF demons.

(I spook easily).

Perhaps a future diesel awaits. Time will tell.


ez sends

 

[MichaelB]

And what would you have banked had you gotten the wagon fixed? Maybe not that much less, and you'd still be driving a TDI.

Peter,
Well said, well said. I took the fix on my 2014 Passat. I banked the money $7.6k and I am still driving a paid for TDI with all the stuff I did to it. Frost Heater, Skid Plate, H&R RSB, Koni FSD's, Nicktane 1micron fuel filter, factory mud guards, LED DLRs and back up lights etc yadda yadda. . I have a set of winter and summer tires. If I had chose the buy back the newer Passat gasser would not have all those goodies I already spent my money on. Many people say they Love their car..... well, I don't Love mine it's just a car but, it is exactly what I wanted along with a great extended warranty which a new gasser will not have...you can't beat that. Best of all it's still a TDI.
PS with the dealer only 500 dollar gift card I acquired 6 oil filters, 2 air filters 2 cabin filters and a 30k service plus a nice jacket and hat. VW owes me nothing!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MichaelB]

simultaneously with my particular HPFP/DPF demons.
(I spook easily).
ez sends

Your demons would have been covered by the extended fuel system and emission warranty.

 

[loop7]

loop7, check the market for used TDI's that have the fix. You may find you can sell your car back and purchase a like new '15 for less money than they'll give you for yours, plus you still get the fix and extended warranty. Otherwise, if you love your particular car and understanding the JSW's are a bit rare, then keep it. I will say you will most likely never be offered more money for your car than the buyback is paying today.

Ended up acting on your suggestion and purchased a 2013 with 39,000 miles (identical color and interior to the one I bought new) for what I think is a steal.
I just completed my documentation submission for selling mine back and I will come out getting the "new" car and just over $10,000 in the end.

 

[chief poncho]

I'm glad it worked out for you. I hope the replacement JSW is just as good to you as your original. Sounds like you were able to bank a few more dollars and still get to enjoy the same type of car you had.

 

[MyTDIRocks]

I'm dubious that there aren't similar cars out there, or won't be soon. I looked at an '15 Passat Manual with 10K on it Saturday. The dealer had one more in stock, and another one on its way. And that's a pretty rare TDI.

Hmm... that sounds like an interesting prospect. I looked online a week ago and didn't see this car listed anywhere (in fact, I saw only 1 Jetta TDI in the entire country) - did you find out about it by going directly to the dealer?

I enjoyed the debate between you guys about the buyback vs fix issue. Btw, I'm a woman not a guy (women drive 6-sp manual TDI's too ;-)

And yes, Tim (TADAWSON) you are correct in that money is not the only issue here although it's extremely tempting to get a new 2018 car and pocket about $6-7K in exchange (plus a 6-yr warranty) for my current TDI but do I want to drive a gasser? To drive or not to drive a gasser... that is the question. Will it perform similarly enough for me to be happy with it? Hmm..

Yesterday, I drove into the city and was averaging about 50mpg on the highway... and I had just so much fun accelerating onto the highway. The whole driving experience is just SO much fun with this car... but I have to look at the big picture. I don't have deep pockets, so is it worth it to do the BB for a few extra $$ in my pocket? If I could get a great deal like that Passat you talked about, might be worth it - but finding these deals is another story.

I think in the end, my decision will be based on whether I can find a suitable "replacement" for my TDI Jetta. LOW miles, MT, Sunroof, great MPG and good driving performance (and a sedan).

 

[peterdaniel]

All I know is that my '03 ruined everything for me. EVERYTHING! There is not another car save for my upcoming purchase of a 2013 JSW, that does everything I could ask for and is comfortable as hell, gets 40+ mpg, 700 mile tanks ( and thats a combo city/hwy!!) and is kick ass fun to drive, easy to mod and looks super sweet. I have been waiting for the JSW to come down in price and be covered under warranty but in the 3 years I have had my '03, i doubt I will need it. My '03 has been flawless save for the OEM alternator that died after 170K miles boo hoo. Its not the miles you drive, its HOW you drive them and the TDI simply fits me perfectly in every driving dynamic.

 

[peterdaniel]

...... The whole driving experience is just so much fun with this car...

bingo!!!

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

MyTDIRocks, I received a call from the dealer yesterday and the sale of that black Passat apparently fell through. Here it is: https://www.mastriavw.com/used/Volk...n-Passat-ac07a7910a0e0a1709936d81b2bcf654.htm

It's a Colorado car, has a clear bra and a pretty dark tint. I didn't look at it super carefully when I test drove it because I was told it was sold. What was the point? But it seemed unblemished. Needs tires. Original Hankooks are in good enough condition but man they are loud. Clean Carfax.

I'm going to pass on it. I really can't justify another car and if I bought that the BMW would have to go. I'm not ready to do that.

 

[Fourplay]

He clearly stated that he could not find a manual similar to his, thus negating that entire argument. It isn't just about money!!!!

That's simply not true. There are hundreds of these things. A cursory glimpse at cars.com/Cargurus/etc. (or Manheim if you have access) will confirm that there are many manual TDIs floating around on the used market.

I just don't get the hype people assign to these cars (especially the 2.0L TDIs). They are slow, economy sedans/wagons with 140hp, yet people on this website rant and rave about them as if they are the latest Ferrari/McLaren/Lamborghini. I would never forego a significant financial windfall just to keep driving one. The difference in "driving experience" between a 2.0L TDI and a 1.8T Jetta is basically zero - neither is fast, both get great mileage, both are cheap.

 

[tadawson]

I simply said that *HE (SHE) SAID THAT!* Don't get uppity with me for quoting another, please! I did not either agree or disagree . . . .

 

[MyTDIRocks]

MyTDIRocks, I received a call from the dealer yesterday and the sale of that black Passat apparently fell through. Here it is: https://www.mastriavw.com/used/Volk...n-Passat-ac07a7910a0e0a1709936d81b2bcf654.htm

I'm going to pass on it. I really can't justify another car and if I bought that the BMW would have to go. I'm not ready to do that.

Thanks for the link - I've narrowed down the exact model I'd want in a 2015. There aren't many out there.. but I've got a few months to find one

 

[MyTDIRocks]

That's simply not true. There are hundreds of these things. A cursory glimpse at cars.com/Cargurus/etc. (or Manheim if you have access) will confirm that there are many manual TDIs floating around on the used market.

Yes, there are but there are less than a handful in the country that have the premium pkg (sunroof, navigation, etc...) all features I currently have on my car AND low miles. I won't "downgrade" and I won't buy a used car without test driving it and giving it a thorough examination - so it has to be "local".

I just don't get the hype people assign to these cars (especially the 2.0L TDIs). They are slow, economy sedans/wagons with 140hp......The difference in "driving experience" between a 2.0L TDI and a 1.8T Jetta is basically zero - neither is fast, both get great mileage, both are cheap.

I suppose we all have different driving styles, but "slow" is the last adjective I'd use on my Jetta TDI! Toyota Camry's are slow. Prius's are slow. My TDI would leave all of these cars in the dust.

Of course comparing the Jetta to a sportscar (like a Ferrari/Lamborghini/Porsche, etc...) is like comparing apples to oranges but those cars get what.. 18-19mpg on a good day? Besides, unless you're driving on the Autobahn, you'll never be able to get the ultimate driving experience with those cars in North America. All they are here are glorified status symbols. My TDI is very responsive and I get 50mpg on the highway or avg 43-44mpg combined (my stats, not VW's)

Not to toot my own horn (pun intended) but it definitely lives up to the hype in my books - but to each his own!