PANIC BUTTON TO REMOTE START YOUR TDI :) using VDS Pro etc.

[djeuroalex]

Hello, im curently working on 2002 vw jett. tdi, and im trying to get my panic button to work as remote start button. At the end i want the panic button to trigger my remote start module (Valet 561T). What im looking for is Panic Activation output (from CMM) to trigger the remote start module, OR how to DISABLE the Panic Button (in the CMM using VDS Pro) so i can program my Panic button signal to Remote Start module. Does any one know any kind coding information about this feature in the CMM?

I think evry VW owner would love this mod for this upcoming winter,
lets help each other out. =)

Working with this remote start module.
Valet 561T Remote Start Module
http://www.directed.com/security/valet/val_rs.asp#562T

 

[madelgado]

Hello, im curently working on 2002 vw jett. tdi, and im trying to get my panic button to work as remote start button. At the end i want the panic button to trigger my remote start module (Valet 561T). What im looking for is Panic Activation output (from CMM) to trigger the remote start module, OR how to DISABLE the Panic Button (in the CMM using VDS Pro) so i can program my Panic button signal to Remote Start module. Does any one know any kind coding information about this feature in the CMM?

I think evry VW owner would love this mod for this upcoming winter,
lets help each other out. =)

Working with this remote start module.
Valet 561T Remote Start Module
http://www.directed.com/security/valet/val_rs.asp#562T

Hello, interesting feature! The output from the panic feature is to trigger the alarm... I don't know it very well because here in Europe this button is missing in the remote (we have only three)... anyway, the alarm output is basically two relays: the blinkers relay and the horn relay (with my mod this could be changed to a signal to the electronic siren ;-) ). Those outputs (both relays) are currently used by the alarm system, and you do not want to stop using it...

In the other hand, there is another possibility by using the boot button... because there is one pin in the CCM that powers the small motor in the boot lock when you press for few seconds to the button 2 on the FOB. If you do not mind to stop using that functionality, then it is very very easy to re-wire the CCM to replace the remote boot open functionality by remote start... I personally never use this feature of remote release of the boot, or maybe in very few circumstances.

BTW, I have open right now my 3 buttons remote and I saw that there is some space for a 4th button but there are also a few other SMD components (maybe resistors) missing... Would someone please, with a remote with 4 buttons, take a picture (macro) of the PCB inside the key? so that I can see which components are missing? I will try to add a micro push button ... looks simple... but I need to know about the missing parts, because right now that track is open in three places :-( Thanks in advance for this!

 

[madelgado]

Up, Up, Up....

Please, someone who please can take a picture of his/her remote FOB circuit board? It takes few minutes... no screwes... just open in the same way as for battery replacement... only difference is to take out the small PCB and take a picture of it; the one that cares is the face where the micro-switches are. Thanks a lot in advance!

 

[SilverGhost]

Hello, interesting feature! The output from the panic feature is to trigger the alarm... I don't know it very well because here in Europe this button is missing in the remote (we have only three)... anyway, the alarm output is basically two relays: the blinkers relay and the horn relay (with my mod this could be changed to a signal to the electronic siren ;-) ). Those outputs (both relays) are currently used by the alarm system, and you do not want to stop using it...

In the other hand, there is another possibility by using the boot button... because there is one pin in the CCM that powers the small motor in the boot lock when you press for few seconds to the button 2 on the FOB. If you do not mind to stop using that functionality, then it is very very easy to re-wire the CCM to replace the remote boot open functionality by remote start... I personally never use this feature of remote release of the boot, or maybe in very few circumstances.

BTW, I have open right now my 3 buttons remote and I saw that there is some space for a 4th button but there are also a few other SMD components (maybe resistors) missing... Would someone please, with a remote with 4 buttons, take a picture (macro) of the PCB inside the key? so that I can see which components are missing? I will try to add a micro push button ... looks simple... but I need to know about the missing parts, because right now that track is open in three places :-( Thanks in advance for this!

I only have a camera phone but will try to take a decent photo.

In the NAR (North American Region) the trunk is set up to open seperate from the rest of the doors. In Germany (Europe in general?) the trunk is unlocked with the rest of the doors. If I could get my Golf to unlock (but not open) the hatch when I unlock the rest of the doors I would be a vary happy man.

Also be carefull as many states and cities are passing anti-idling laws. Just a heads up.

 

[pheller]

More importantly, one must defeat the immobilizer for remote start..... I for one would not be willing to do this.

Now, some creative work to integrate remote start of a Standheizung, using the OEM remote would be neat ...

 

[madelgado]

I only have a camera phone but will try to take a decent photo.

Many thanks... no hurry for this.

In the NAR (North American Region) the trunk is set up to open seperate from the rest of the doors. In Germany (Europe in general?) the trunk is unlocked with the rest of the doors. If I could get my Golf to unlock (but not open) the hatch when I unlock the rest of the doors I would be a vary happy man.

It is going to be a matter of finding the apropriate bit in the CCM... as you say, when I unlock the doors, the trunk is also unlocked. Some minutes after I start moving the car (I don't really know if it is based on the speed or time) the trunk locks by itself, until I use the door switch to unlock-it or the remote key 2.

I just need a dump of one of your CCMs, the closest as possible to mine (1C0 959 799 A/B) and I will do a comparison, which I will be doing as soon as I have some time to play in the car with my CCM. Until now, I was playing with a CCM at home, no power window motors, etc... just the CCM, so I could only use measure blocks to see if something was enabled/disabled when changing bits. I hope that this could be this week-end.

Also be carefull as many states and cities are passing anti-idling laws. Just a heads up.

This I don't gett it, sorry.

More importantly, one must defeat the immobilizer for remote start..... I for one would not be willing to do this.

Very good point... The inmo can be completely disabled, although I do not think that this is the way to go... I assumed that the remote start system would sort this out somehow... but maybe no. In this case, at least something has to be developed to bypass the inmo during the remote start session... I have read somewhere that the inmo III mechanism works like this:

* key inside the start... ignition switched on
* tacho reads the code through the inmo coil and checks it agains the code stored in a flash memory 93CXX. If it is ok, the switches off the inmo light
* when the engine starts, the ECU queries the tacho for inmo state
* if the tacho answers no or does not answer, then engine stops
* if the tacho answers yes, engine goes ahead...

I think that this is more or less the protocol, although I do not have details about the messages... I would have to snoop the K line to figure out... Assuming that this snoop is done, then the steps to start the car remotely could be:

* use the trunk pulse output to indicate remote start request (this assumes that the remote is adapted with the car, etc... some sort of security)
* when this pulse is recognized by the starter circuit, then switch ignition on
* as we will not be able to work inside the tacho... inmo light will stay on
* temporarily derive the K line from tacho to the starter...
* start the car
* wait for the ECU query and reply to the ECU with the expected message
* restore the K line to the ECU.

Does it make sense??? I think I am driving myself crazy
Cheers!

 

[pheller]

Very good point... The inmo can be completely disabled, although I do not think that this is the way to go... I assumed that the remote start system would sort this out somehow... but maybe no. In this case, at least something has to be developed to bypass the inmo during the remote start session... I have read somewhere that the inmo III mechanism works like this:
<snip>
I think that this is more or less the protocol, although I do not have details about the messages... I would have to snoop the K line to figure out... Assuming that this snoop is done, then the steps to start the car remotely could be:
<snip>
Does it make sense??? I think I am driving myself crazy

Well, the ECU <-> Tacho communication in later model vehicles is almost entirely on the Powertrain CANbus.

I would be really hesitant to trap, filter, and generate data on this bus. I think this one is going to be a really tall order.

There will be more work for manual transmissions, to. You'll need some way to ensure the car is in neutral, and a way to temporarily close the clutch switch.

Best of luck in this one, of course, but I think it'll be a long battle with minimal success...

--phil

 

[dieselgti]

Please, someone who please can take a picture of his/her remote FOB circuit board?

Here you go...

-- 1J0 959 753 F -- (for immobilizer 2)

-- 1J0 959 753 T -- (for immobilizer 2)

 

[Birdman]

In the NAR (North American Region) the trunk is set up to open seperate from the rest of the doors. In Germany (Europe in general?) the trunk is unlocked with the rest of the doors. If I could get my Golf to unlock (but not open) the hatch when I unlock the rest of the doors I would be a vary happy man.
Not sure what car you have but every VW I have owned the trunk will unlock with the doors if the lock on the back of the trunk/hatch is set in the right postition. One way it stays locked they other way it unlocks.

 

[SilverGhost]

Yeah, Immo III is a bit more complicated, but that desciption looks spot on for Immo II. In Immo III both the ECU and Tacho get the key code and have to agree that it is authorized.

A couple places that sell remote start systems get a spare key, take the chip out (or break the key shank to make it smaller) and put it in a box. When the remote start is activated, a circut is completed to read the chip in the box. The rest of the time it is disconnected from the circut. They list an adaptor for some popular remote start systems to use them on cars that have chipped keys (GM, Chrysler, Toyota, VW, etc.)

 

[SilverGhost]

In the NAR (North American Region) the trunk is set up to open seperate from the rest of the doors. In Germany (Europe in general?) the trunk is unlocked with the rest of the doors. If I could get my Golf to unlock (but not open) the hatch when I unlock the rest of the doors I would be a vary happy man.
Not sure what car you have but every VW I have owned the trunk will unlock with the doors if the lock on the back of the trunk/hatch is set in the right postition. One way it stays locked they other way it unlocks.

Yeah, my Scirocco does that. Eurovans and by-pressure central locking works that way. By-pressure = vacuum pump to run door locks EX;MkIII Jetta.

MkIV Golf/Jetta/NB use a different system. Several people have complained (myself included) about the Golfs because you have to unlock the hatch everytime you go to open it. The Bora (Jetta sold in EU) unlocks the trunk with the rest of the doors but uses a different latch button. There are threads here on TdiClub about.

 

[madelgado]

Here you go...

-- 1J0 959 753 F -- (for immobilizer 2)

-- 1J0 959 753 T -- (for immobilizer 2)

Hello, special thanks to dieselgti for the pictures... Definitely I would have never done this mod without his help... I found the differences, I solded a 1K resistor and a micro-switch and... IT WORKED ON THE FIRST TRY! What I saw at home is that the small led was blinking... and I suspected that I would work... so I went to the car, tested, and worked as expected . Now the alarm triggers with one click and stops with another click, very cool! (maybe for you it is not so much difference, because you always had this ). Now I was able to test the different DWA tones easily.

Thanks... I keep on looking for more surprises, hehehe

I will put here a link to the picture with the missing componentes:

 

[djeuroalex]

Yeah, Immo III is a bit more complicated, but that desciption looks spot on for Immo II. In Immo III both the ECU and Tacho get the key code and have to agree that it is authorized.

A couple places that sell remote start systems get a spare key, take the chip out (or break the key shank to make it smaller) and put it in a box. When the remote start is activated, a circut is completed to read the chip in the box. The rest of the time it is disconnected from the circut. They list an adaptor for some popular remote start systems to use them on cars that have chipped keys (GM, Chrysler, Toyota, VW, etc.)

Very good point, how to keep immo security and have remote start. +++!!!

 

[madelgado]

Hi, all of this discussion (in order to help you) tries to answer and look for alternatives... if what you want is a concrete answer only, then it is more or less done already: CCM does not have an specific output for the panic function other than the alarm. If you want you can swap the functionality between alarm or remote start (as I said in other post, I assume that the inmo stuff is managed already). If you swap the alarm with remote start, then I could try to help-you in disabling the alarm triggers so that the alarm never goes off (which would mean that the car will start by itself), only when you use the panic button, in the chance that you replace the horn relay output to the remote start system.

 

[djeuroalex]

also does anyone know of a out wire from CMM when the alarm engaged to get source - or + for a aftermarket motion sensor?? i want to have my motion sensor switched rather thatn being ON all the time. they work better if their switched learning zone etc. thank you.

 

[pheller]

IM NOT ASKING HOW TO DISABLE IMMO... PPL PLZ
I THINK WE ALL KNOW HOW EASY IT IS TO DISABLE IMMOBILIZER 5 MIN VIA OBD PORT... AND I DONT THINK THAT SUGGESTIONS LIKE TRUNK BUTTON TRIGGER ARE USEFULL EITHER.. PLEASE POST USEFULL INFO ONLY

Tone down the capslock there, buddy.

You're talking about remote start, which will most definitely involve defeating the immobilizer in some fashion or another.

Do you know what happens if you attempt to start the engine when the Immo coil does not read a valid code from the Key? The engine is immediately shut off.

I don't know how easy it is to disable the Immobilizer in 5 minutes via OBD, please, clue me in.

We're brainstorming ideas here, please don't snap at people who are considering how to reach *your* goal.

--phil

 

[madelgado]

also does anyone know of a out wire from CMM when the alarm engaged to get source - or + for a aftermarket motion sensor?? i want to have my motion sensor switched rather thatn being ON all the time. they work better if their switched learning zone etc. thank you.

In a 1C0 xxx xxx you can set +12 signal when the alarm is engaged form pin T15/2. Also, if you apply ground to pin 5 (hood sensor F120) or pin 9 (interior monitoring) you will trigger the alarm. Hope this helps.

 

[delvi__acevedo]

Tone down the capslock there, buddy.

You're talking about remote start, which will most definitely involve defeating the immobilizer in some fashion or another.

Do you know what happens if you attempt to start the engine when the Immo coil does not read a valid code from the Key? The engine is immediately shut off.

I don't know how easy it is to disable the Immobilizer

in 5 minutes via OBD, please, clue me in.

We're brainstorming ideas here, please don't snap at people who are considering how to reach *your* goal.

--phil

there is a immobilizer by-pass module that you can find on many company's that sell remote starter-alarm stuff, that all you do is you put a spare key inside that module, they have one wire that goes around your ignition switch, one wire for power(+) , one for ground(-) and one activation wire that goes to the remote stater-alarm module, the module sends a signal thru this wire only when the remote stater has been activated, so your immobilizer system stay intact all the time.
here is one of those modules:
http://www.dealtree.net/cart/select_item.cfm?cont=59111

 

[pheller]

there is a immobilizer by-pass module that you can find on many company's that sell remote starter-alarm stuff, that all you do is you put a spare key inside that module...

I'm aware of these modules. I was inquiring to the OP as to how the immobilizer can be completely defeated within 5 minutes, via OBD.

Thanks for the link to the product, though!

--phil

 

[djeuroalex]

again with the IMMO

Tone down the capslock there, buddy.

You're talking about remote start, which will most definitely involve defeating the immobilizer in some fashion or another.

Do you know what happens if you attempt to start the engine when the Immo coil does not read a valid code from the Key? The engine is immediately shut off.

I don't know how easy it is to disable the Immobilizer in 5 minutes via OBD, please, clue me in.

We're brainstorming ideas here, please don't snap at people who are considering how to reach *your* goal.

--phil

Forget about the IMMO, IMMOBILIZER on cars are nothing anymore! there are so many software out there do disable it in seconds. and if someone really likes your VW with minimal knowledge then your SOL.

 

[pheller]

for immo defeat check out this site. you need special oroginal interface with dongle to activate the software. software is free to download. Its just a matter of time before some one posts a shematics of this interface and then we can all have it for one good price FREEE!
http://vagdashcom.com/

Ah yes, the venerable Vag Dash Com. The schematics will be useless. You will also need the well protected source code from the embedded processor, which communicates with the application to indicate it is a an original cable. (Much like Vag-Com with the Key-Com and Hex-Com cables).

But, that's stealing. If you advocate that, you have come to the wrong place.

How exactly do you expect to defeat the immobilizer with vagdashcom, though? The most that it will do is reset the odometer when necessary, reveal the SKC, for immobilizer pairing and key adaptation.

The Immobilizer defeat has to occur at the time the ignition contact is closed. Vagdashcom requires way too much interaction to have a practical application here.

I really wish that the Immobilizer was read upon first application of the break pedal switch, gas pedal pontentiometer, or a non-zero value for the "Vehicle Stationairy" reading on the Powertrain CAN bus. This would make this whole process alot easier, and would allow for neat things like push button starting.

--phil

 

[david_594]

for immo defeat check out this site. you need special oroginal interface with dongle to activate the software. software is free to download. Its just a matter of time before some one posts a shematics of this interface and then we can all have it for one good price FREEE!
http://vagdashcom.com/

Hardware based activation of software isnt as simple as simply recreating the schematic.

I notice you are a newbie. Have you owned your TDI for a winter yet? If you havent then you probabily dont know how effective it is at warming up just idling.(I'll give you a hint, its not).

Pheller gave you the answer in the beginning with the Stanheizen of webasto or ebaspar. No security concern, and a hot car in no time.

 

[djeuroalex]

Hardware based activation of software isnt as simple as simply recreating the schematic.

I notice you are a newbie. Have you owned your TDI for a winter yet? If you havent then you probabily dont know how effective it is at warming up just idling.(I'll give you a hint, its not).

Pheller gave you the answer in the beginning with the Stanheizen of webasto or ebaspar. No security concern, and a hot car in no time.

Newbie in tdiclub yea im.. and why does is bother you???? I noticed that your moth is trying to be in the middle of evrything here. I live in Seattle WA and TDI's here with good glow plugs start just fine. i already have a heater in my block that i dont use and why wuld i spend 2k on some webasto heater for my work car? smart yea.... remote start is all i need. So your saying that TDI idling for 20 min. wont do anything?. idi!
"Have you owned your TDI for a winter yet? If you havent then you probabily dont know........" who are you trying to teach here siq!. hey man is ok relax will figure it out, dont worry evrything will be ok.. evrything will be ok.....

 

[djeuroalex]

Tone down the capslock there, buddy.

You're talking about remote start, which will most definitely involve defeating the immobilizer in some fashion or another.

Do you know what happens if you attempt to start the engine when the Immo coil does not read a valid code from the Key? The engine is immediately shut off.

I don't know how easy it is to disable the Immobilizer in 5 minutes via OBD, please, clue me in.

We're brainstorming ideas here, please don't snap at people who are considering how to reach *your* goal.

--phil

hey i didnt try so sound that rude as it looks now.. im not rasing my tone on no one here. i just wrote in caps so people would pay attention to what they wirte so you dont have to scroll throug pages to find something usefull.

 

[bhtooefr]

Here's the deal.

You either have to:

1. Get off your rear end and plug in the block heater.
2. Install a Webasto or Espar, which are diesel-fired coolant heaters.
3. Sell your TDI and get a gasser.

I'd recommend #3, myself.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

In addition to the aforementioned Option #3, I would recommend using a spell checker before posting.