P2015 intake manifold flap fix how-to

dustingebhardt

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Location
Tulsa, OK
TDI
2010 Jetta Sportswagen TDI (sold)
What are the symptoms (other than CEL) when this "arm" goes out ?
Nothing noticable. The engine seems to run fine with no noticable effect on mileage, power, or drivability. However, I will say that twice in the past month, I've had instances where I give the go-pedal a strong push and nothing happens, except a bunch of smoke (soot? steam? fuel?) comes out the exhaust. Then, a second or two later, all is good. Both times it has happened during my morning commute. It might not be related, considering this is a new development and I've had the CEL on for the past 6mo to a year.
 

volks27

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Location
Gatineau, Quebec
TDI
2012 golf highline
I've had instances where I give the go-pedal a strong push and nothing happens, except a bunch of smoke (soot? steam? fuel?) comes out the exhaust. Then, a second or two later, all is good. Both times it has happened during my morning commute. It might not be related, considering this is a new development and I've had the CEL on for the past 6mo to a year.
Sounds more like your engine taking a big sip of intercooler juice.
 

Dieselgeek

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Location
Golden, CO
TDI
2016 Golf TDI
What are the symptoms (other than CEL) when this "arm" goes out ?
I have had two people mention that their mileage went down when the P2015 code popped up. I know this is a small sample. Anyone else with the code care to comment?
 

dustingebhardt

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Location
Tulsa, OK
TDI
2010 Jetta Sportswagen TDI (sold)
I have had two people mention that their mileage went down when the P2015 code popped up. I know this is a small sample. Anyone else with the code care to comment?
I've been tracking my mileage with Fuelly for almost 100k miles. I've averaged 41mgp and I haven't noticed any major change. For the past several months, I've averaged around 39.5mpg, so I wouldn't consider this a big difference.
 

ilyago

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 14, 1999
Location
Chatham, NJ, USA
TDI
2015 Jetta S DSG
My mileage takes a noticeable hit (2-4 mpg) when the temperatures drop. Perhaps this is what you are experiencing since this is November.
 

vwman2

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2012
Location
Orange County NY
TDI
03 Jetta Wagon Tdi, 2010 Golf TDI
I don't have a code but mpg is down, I'm going to look this weekend at the flap motor and operation. We have 170k on ours so could be something up with it I hope.
 

dustingebhardt

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Location
Tulsa, OK
TDI
2010 Jetta Sportswagen TDI (sold)
I got my Dieselgeek part on Saturday and installed it right away. Here are some takeaways:
  1. I was surprised by how high up this part created the stop for the motor arm. When I tried making my own stop by drilling and tapping the zinc motor body,I only pushed the motor arm up by about 2mm (3/32"). The dieselgeek part stops the arm at around 6mm (1/4").
  2. The part is a tight fit, probably by design. The zinc body on the motor had a parting line that I had to file down to get the dieslegeek part to fit all the way down.
  3. You could probably install this part without removing the motor, but since I had to remove the DIY-bolt-stop from a previous attempt at a repair, I was forced to remove the motor. I only dropped the spring once, so I guess you could call this a success? :)
  4. My installation procedure went like this:
    1. With the motor removed, loosen the socket head cap screw on the dieselgeek part with a 4mm hex key (aka allen wrench).
    2. Push the motor arm out of the way and test fit the part. It will be a tight fit. I needed to file down a bit of the parting lines on the zinc body of the motor. (Edit: The need to file down the body may vary. I had very large parting lines on my motor body. YMMV.)
    3. Using one of the motor mounting bolts, feed it through the hole on the part and then through the motor body mounting hole. This bolt will help keep all of the pieces aligned as you tighten the part down.
    4. Move the arm out of the way and align the part. Tighten the socket head cap screw to secure the part. You might need to gently tap the part with a small hammer to get it to fully seat. (Edit: One of the edges of my part began to bite into the softer zinc motor body, so a very, very light tap was needed to get it to get into its correct position.)
    5. Reinstall the motor onto your engine as normal.
I started and stopped the engine a few times, and the CEL went away. My laptop that I use for VCDS is in the shop, so I wasn't able to run the recalibration sequence.
 
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Dieselgeek

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Location
Golden, CO
TDI
2016 Golf TDI
dustingebhardt,

Thanks for your feedback on the P2015 install. Your atypical situation made our "hook and hold" install method not applicable for you. I'm very pleased at your results though.

Some thoughts:

The P2015 repair bracket was designed with the variability of the motor casting's parting line in mind. My machinist drew the top bracket to hold the main bracket slightly away from the motor body once the screws were tightened. The top plate was also CNC machined with very tight tolerances. If you are just trial fitting the bracket on a loose motor it will look like the parting line will interfere but when everything is tightened down with the motor on the manifold the P2015 bracket will be about .050" away from the motor body. Parting lines are a wild card though and it is possible that somebody, including you, might have a sloppy parting line that requires some slight filing to make it work. For most people, the parting line will not be an issue once everything is tightened down. If you remove the motor, buying a hemostat or a pair of forceps is recommended if you want to make sure that the return spring isn't lost into the abyss of the engine bay. That said, there is at least one person who has the bracket installed with no spring present and the fix kit is working fine after thousands of miles. We've even shot a video where on a used motor and manifold there was no tension on the spring throughout it's entire range of travel.

As far as using a hammer to get the bracket to seat I will mention that the part is meant to fit with a good tight interference fit on the cast motor body. There is no need to use a hammer to seat the part since the extra long Allen screw will pull the part onto the motor casting's "nub" when you tighten it. Tightening both screws pulls everything into place. Once tightened, the part will never move again.

Glad you got it done and I look forward to hearing from more people about their installs.
 
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dustingebhardt

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Location
Tulsa, OK
TDI
2010 Jetta Sportswagen TDI (sold)
Jim,
I editted my post to make is clearer that my install process appears to be nontypical. I do want to say thanks for making this part, and it appears to be working well. In regards to the hammer use, I used a small hammer and very light force when adjusting the part. One edge of your machined part was biting into the cast motor body and beginning to gall. I could have probably backed out the screw, repositioned the part, and tightly hold it in position while tightening the screw.

Thanks again,
Dustin
 

ilyago

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 14, 1999
Location
Chatham, NJ, USA
TDI
2015 Jetta S DSG
I got and installed the dieselgeek part, however I am still getting the P2015 code.
I can move the lever manually, but I am not sure if I need to do something else to it at this point, or if the motor has gone bad.
I don't have a laptop, so no VAG-COM. I will try to cycle the ignition a few times to see if the motor will move and reset the fault.
 

Dieselgeek

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Location
Golden, CO
TDI
2016 Golf TDI
Have you scanned for codes recently Ilyago? If so, do you have a P2016 code? We definitely need to get an operating motor in there to get rid of P2015. Maybe someone here has a used motor from a complete manifold replacement that they can sell you.
 
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Dieselgeek

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Location
Golden, CO
TDI
2016 Golf TDI
You can look in VagCom/VCDS to determine how close you are to getting the P2015 fault code. In Measuring Block 121, field 4 you can see the resting feedback voltage going to the V157 flapper motor with the engine off and ignition on. The lowest voltage we have seen thus far consistent with NO check engine light is .380 volts:



If you fall below this voltage, the field 3 display (Bin. Bits) will go to all zeros and the P2015 code will be set.

On a new manifold or with the Dieselgeek P2015 repair kit installed the voltage in Field 4 is approximately .760:



If anybody sees something different than this please email me or post it here.
 
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ilyago

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 14, 1999
Location
Chatham, NJ, USA
TDI
2015 Jetta S DSG
I used to get P2015 by itself, then I started getting P2015 and P2016 together.
Now its back to just P2015.
Wish I had a VAG-COM so I can see the voltages.
 

runonbeer

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
There really is no way you can get P0215 with this part properly installed. Perhaps you don't have it hooked in the back?
 

runonbeer

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
You can look in VagCom/VCDS to determine how close you are to getting the P2015 fault code. In Measuring Block 121, field 4 you can see the resting feedback voltage going to the V157 flapper motor with the engine off and ignition on. The lowest voltage we have seen thus far consistent with NO check engine light is .380 volts:



If you fall below this voltage, the field 3 display (Bin. Bits) will go to all zeros and the P2015 code will be set.

On a new manifold or with the Dieselgeek P2015 repair kit installed the voltage in Field 4 is approximately .760:



If anybody sees something different than this please email me or post it here.
I just installed one of these fix brackets on a 2011 Jetta with 126K. It took 8 minutes including before and after MB121 readings.

Before I installed the part, mb121.4 was 0.456V
After is now 0.760V

These Voltages correspond to the motor's position when flaps are open. Jim and I measured a brand new manifold from VW. Guess what? 0.760V.

As the stop on the flap rail wears, the motor arm is allowed to move farther and farther back. The voltage signal gets lower and lower until it reaches 0.304V and a fault is set. As far as I can tell this number changes in discrete decrements of ~0.076V as the flap stops wear down.

Jim's fix bracket butts up to the motor arm and stops it from physically being able to move any farther than a position corresponding to 0.760V. It will never get any lower than that.
 
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Dieselgeek

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Location
Golden, CO
TDI
2016 Golf TDI
This shows what you should see if you have installed the P2015 fix bracket correctly. If you hold a flashlight over the V157 motor and look in between the V157's top two T30 Torx screws from the front of the car you will see that the P2015 repair bracket is hooked onto the motor casting:

 
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runonbeer

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
I would like to just say that this fix is the real deal.

The failure has nothing at all to do with wear on the linkage arm that everyone is trying to fix with an eclip and or lithium grease. The wear occurs on the stop situated on the flapper rail itself, well inside the actual manifold portion. This is why VW wants to sell you a manifold.
Jim's part takes the stress off of this wimpy stop and increases the contact area for stopping the powerful return spring of the motor.

Mission accomplished Jim. Cheers!
 

JSWTDI09

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2009 JSW TDI (gone but not forgotten)
The failure has nothing at all to do with wear on the linkage arm that everyone is trying to fix with an eclip and or lithium grease. The wear occurs on the stop situated on the flapper rail itself, well inside the actual manifold portion. This is why VW wants to sell you a manifold.
Jim's part takes the stress off of this wimpy stop and increases the contact area for stopping the powerful return spring of the motor.
Considering this information, it sounds like this little device is not only a fix for this issue but could also be a preventative. Would you recommend installing it on a car to prevent the problem from ever occurring? Perhaps I will start monitoring that measuring block regularly.

Have Fun!

Don
 

runonbeer

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
Considering this information, it sounds like this little device is not only a fix for this issue but could also be a preventative. Would you recommend installing it on a car to prevent the problem from ever occurring? Perhaps I will start monitoring that measuring block regularly.

Have Fun!

Don
Absolutely! The car I put it on today had no fault, but just look at the numbers. It was only two decrements away from faulting out. It will eventually happen to all of them. This part allows you to stop thinking about this problem.

The little stop on the flap rail is teeny tiny. It is astounding to me that VW thought it would be a good idea to make this the primary and only stop for that motor return spring. Anyone who has messed with one of these off the car knows how much finger force it takes to move that motor.
I would love to post up a picture of the thing but it isn't easy to get a pic that really illustrates the problem. First of all it's tiny. Second of all it is black and it is set into an equally tiny recess that is also black so reflected light just does not cooperate. Plus you really have to see it in action along with the flap linkage to really get it.

Its sort of like the PD cam failures. They are just asking way too much of this tiny little thing and to top it off the material is all wrong.

Its like taking a plastic hammer and whacking it on the ground a few thousand times. It will not have the same dimensions that it did before you started whacking. The motor flaps are actually getting overclocked as a result of this failure so this is not solely an effort to satisfy the ECM, It actually fixes the flaps and takes 100% of the load off of the whimp-stop.
 
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vwman2

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2012
Location
Orange County NY
TDI
03 Jetta Wagon Tdi, 2010 Golf TDI
I have to check MB on mine to see what the voltages are. I unplugged my flap motor and have been getting better MPG that I use to get. I have no code but car is running better also.

Thanks
Jamie
 

redbarron55

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Location
Navarre, FL.
TDI
2012 Touareg TDI Executive
The fault just showed up on my 2009 JSW with 221,000 miles ans I just ordered the kit. It would be nice if the precisely German engineered car was made to last without having to add all of the aftermarket fixes that are thankfully available.
Perhaps we can keep them on the road with help from DieselGeek and 2 Micron et al.

Thanks.

JDB
 
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Dieselgeek

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Location
Golden, CO
TDI
2016 Golf TDI
You can see the stock plastic butterfly shaft stop in between the rectangular and round intake port closest to the V157 motor in this video: http://youtu.be/cOyTGgi4sCU

Just crank up the resolution to 1080p and watch it on a computer monitor to see it.
 

Dieselgeek

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Location
Golden, CO
TDI
2016 Golf TDI
Here is a picture of the weak plastic stop built into the throttle butterfly shaft:

 

ilyago

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 14, 1999
Location
Chatham, NJ, USA
TDI
2015 Jetta S DSG
The fault just showed up on my 2009 JSW with 221,000 miles ans I just ordered the kit. It would be nice if the precisely German engineered car was made to last without having to add all of the aftermarket fixes that are thankfully available.
Perhaps we can keep them on the road with help from DieselGeek and 2 Micron et al.

Thanks.

JDB
I would say that for a car with 220K miles, you would expect some parts to require replacement. And with the fix available from dieselgeek, it is a really trivial issue.
Hopefully with more sales, the price should come down so that more people will buy it as a preventive fix.
 

Tacotoy1998

New member
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Location
Long Island
TDI
Cup edition 6 speed manual
This fix works ! I got help from Jim and installed the piece last night easy install literally ten min , piece of mind and now no check engine light !! Would recommend to get this piece for anyone who has this issue or even for preventive maintenance ....
 

redbarron55

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Location
Navarre, FL.
TDI
2012 Touareg TDI Executive
At 221,000 miles I expect some parts to need replacement, however that does not excuse poor design of parts at wear points being designed to hold up properly. This is a stop and should be pretty simple. I guess tat plastic has a good percentage chance of making it through the warranty period and then the owner can jus buy a new manifold and pay the dealer to replace it.
I bought the car for long term reliability and paid a premium for it. As is said sometimes you get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get.
In this case I am paying $65 plus freight for what VW should have designed to not need in the first place.
Along with RCV valves, VNT actuators, DPFs , 2 Micron filters, and roof drain tubes etc.
I am just glad that DieselGeek has found the solution and I can get it for only $65 and freight vs. a new manifold and labor. All in all a good deal, but should not be necessary.
 

tadurkee

Veteran Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Location
Michigan
TDI
none (formerly 2010 JSW DSG)
Finally got the P2015 code yesterday, and at 365,000 miles am not complaining. Another member here is going to order 2 of Dieselgeek's parts. One for him and one for me. He has generously offered to make the repair on mine since we live less than 50 miles apart. Sure beats $900 at the dealer and I am so glad to meet such awesome people here on this forum.
 
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