p2002 code and vehicle inspection due -clear and keep going or take to dealership for fix?

[Drclaw]

Hi everyone. I just had a P2002 code pop for the first time. Pretty sure it came on during a regen. 2014 Sportwagen, purchased with 30k on the odometer, 68XXX today. \

I just moved to ME and registered my car last Friday, I'm supposed to have my car inspected w/in 10 days.

I can clear the code and hope it doesnt show up and drive enough (how much is enough) to get the ECU ready for an inspection. No guarantee that it will or get an appt at the dealership asap and hopefully get the DPF replaced under warranty.


Any suggestions from the group here?

Thanks

 

[DrGERTol]

Our limited experience with P2002: saw it for the first time last July with no MIL, cleared it after a while since we still had 8+ months of emissions warranty. Saw it again as a MIL in September and made an appointment to have the local dealer look at it, though the MIL went out on its own before we could get it in. Didn't see it again, also as a MIL, until 4 days before the warranty expired in March. I'd say if the fault frequency isn't increasing, clear it before your inspection. When it shows up again, bring it in for warranty work. --g

 

[Drclaw]

I cleared the code this morning. Any idea how many miles I need to drive before I can get inspected?

 

[oilhammer]

You need to get it fixed first. Then, the CJAAs can take a while (I've had them take over 1000 miles) to set all the readiness.

Use a scan tool to see if the readiness gets set. If it doesn't, and/or if the DPF related DTC comes back, then....

You may be able to try a manual regen, may also want to check the cleanliness of the tailpipes.

 

[Drclaw]

You need to get it fixed first. Then, the CJAAs can take a while (I've had them take over 1000 miles) to set all the readiness.

Use a scan tool to see if the readiness gets set. If it doesn't, and/or if the DPF related DTC comes back, then....

You may be able to try a manual regen, may also want to check the cleanliness of the tailpipes.

I'm not quite following your recommendation. I cleared the code this am.

You say get it fixed,so take it to a dealer without the light on and try to get it repaired? Continue driving and see if I can get the system in a "ready state" then inspected?

I check tail pipe last night. It had a little soot but didn't seem crazy. I put my finger in it and had a little black but very light coating

 

[oilhammer]

"clearing the code" does not mean "fixing the problem". You have a DPF efficiency fault, which means the ECU is not liking the pressure/temp differentials before and after the DPF. Short answer: your DPF may be failing. Since your car has relatively low mileage, it *may* just need a more aggressive cleaning to get it back working properly (meaning, an active regen while driving down the highway at a steady speed and no interruptions). This procedure is initiated with a [proper] scan tool.

If your car is still under the extended warranty, then the dealer can take a look. However, since you already cleared the DTC, you've lost that opportunity.... for now. Now all you can do is drive it. See which happens first: the DTC returns, or all the readiness sets. DTC returns (most likely will): car needs to be fixed. The car doesn't care if you do it on your dime or if the dealer does it on VAG's dime. Your local authorities don't care, either.

If the readiness all sets, then you can take it in for your inspection (I am assuming this is an OBD test, like what we have here). A scan tool will again allow you access to see what readiness monitors have run. Here, on the diesels, they ALL need to be set to pass.

 

[Drclaw]

"clearing the code" does not mean "fixing the problem". You have a DPF efficiency fault, which means the ECU is not liking the pressure/temp differentials before and after the DPF. Short answer: your DPF may be failing. Since your car has relatively low mileage, it *may* just need a more aggressive cleaning to get it back working properly (meaning, an active regen while driving down the highway at a steady speed and no interruptions). This procedure is initiated with a [proper] scan tool.

If your car is still under the extended warranty, then the dealer can take a look. However, since you already cleared the DTC, you've lost that opportunity.... for now. Now all you can do is drive it. See which happens first: the DTC returns, or all the readiness sets. DTC returns (most likely will): car needs to be fixed. The car doesn't care if you do it on your dime or if the dealer does it on VAG's dime. Your local authorities don't care, either.

If the readiness all sets, then you can take it in for your inspection (I am assuming this is an OBD test, like what we have here). A scan tool will again allow you access to see what readiness monitors have run. Here, on the diesels, they ALL need to be set to pass.

Gotcha and agreed on all fronts. My nearest term issue is getting the vehicle inspected. I was concerned about the # of miles needed to get to a ready state before I need to be inspected. Worst case I go in, they fail me for not being ready, and I keep going. Either I'm ready or code return.

I do have a vag com but not sure how to force a Regen.

 

[oilhammer]

Here ya go:

Diesel Particle Filter Emergency Regeneration - Ross-Tech Wiki

wiki.ross-tech.com

There is no set number of miles that the car needs to be driven to set all the readiness. As I stated before, some of the CJAAs are very, very finicky about getting them all to set. I've had to drive customers' cars back and forth from home to work (about 100 miles round trip, each day) for over a week to get them to all set after a repair. And unlike some of the VAG gassers, VCDS has no manual "set readiness" option that you can do while sitting still. I wish ross-tech could do something like that, but they may not because as I understand it they are just giving us access to abilities that Volkswagen/Bosch already have in there.

 

[DrGERTol]

Thanks for that explanation, @oilhammer . I found this thread on the topic just now: https://forums.ross-tech.com/index.php?threads/30478/
Note in particular posts #19 (explanation of the 5 digit readiness status) and #31 (a recent inspection experience in MA where only the last readiness digit was set to 1).
And this VW Tech Bulletin on interpreting MVB089 Readiness data: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2015/MC-10123033-9999.pdf --g

 

[Fogcat]

I have tried to explain this issue with my son but don't have the technical expertise expressed above. Gasser set intervals seem easier to explain than the TDI. It is good to have actual experience speaking instead of nebulous "informed guesswork; the second instance being myself. Thank you oilhammer..

 

[oilhammer]

The most basic stuff is really the same regardless of the fuel the engine uses. The two main differences are the gas engines have evaporative emissions control, and that is a readiness monitor that can take a while simply because it is dependent on narrow enabling criteria (most cars it means more than 1/4 tank, less than 3/4 tank, and the ambient temps cannot be too cold nor too hot). Then the gas engines' catalyst monitor is a little quicker to run through than the diesels' DPF/deNOx catalyst, and SCR equipped cars have their own test that has to show a certain NOx reduction. And THAT is also something that has some narrow enabling criteria with special regards to ambient temps. If it is 0 F outside, there are certain readiness monitors that may simply never, ever run. This has been, and continues to be, a thorn in the sides of techs everywhere.

Also, many manufactures (especially, but not limited to, the Germans) will have slightly different readiness flags for generic vs. the proprietary stuff. VCDS shows this, as VAG has both. When you go into the Engine in Address 1, you are looking at the actual Volkswagen/Bosch stuff. You can hit the Readiness tab and see the proprietary VAG stuff. But if you back out to the main VCDS screen, go to the OBD 2 tab, then check the Readiness tab there, you'll see all the generic stuff... and the municipal OBD testing looks at THAT, not the proprietary stuff. So you can have all the Readiness show as SET in one area, but not the other. So it is important when checking for OBD testing readiness and you are using VCDS to look in the generic OBD 2 spot, as that is what the test place will be looking at.

 

[jetta 97]

I check tail pipe last night. It had a little soot but didn't seem crazy. I put my finger in it and had a little black but very light coating

If you have Black soot at tail pipe that means your DPF is cracked and needs to be replaced .
I have seen lot of cars with this problem lately after Diesel geek update.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I went through a similar issue with inspection in MA with my BMW when I bought it. Ended up getting a rejection sticker and then had 60 days to repair it and have it set readiness. Worked out. You probably can do something similar in ME and not be liable for a citation for not having an inspection.

 

[Drclaw]

so after about 150 miles the MIL came back on last night. I did some additional driving this morning, had a regen occur and at some point the MIL turned off. I checked the codes this morning and no MIL on but do still have a P2002 code but.... all systems are ready to go apparently.

screengrabs from VCDS below.

http://imgur.com/a/SzzWxyF

http://imgur.com/JiOzyQt

 

[jetta 97]

so after about 150 miles the MIL came back on last night. I did some additional driving this morning, had a regen occur and at some point the MIL turned off. I checked the codes this morning and no MIL on but do still have a P2002 code but.... all systems are ready to go apparently.

Did you read my post #12?

 

[Drclaw]

Did you read my post #12?

I did. My priorities are to get the vehicle inspected then fixed permanently. If I don't have a MIL then I can't really take it into the dealership. Is a sooty tailpipe enough to get them to replace the dpf?

 

[oilhammer]

You need a new DPF. Stop messing around with your own OBD unless you are going to be the one to fix it (or pay to fix it). Every time you clear any DTCs or such, the whole process has to start over. It is not going to fix itself, and it is not going to set all the Readiness for the generic OBD test until it gets fixed. You are making it more complicated than it really is.

 

[Drclaw]

You need a new DPF. Stop messing around with your own OBD unless you are going to be the one to fix it (or pay to fix it). Every time you clear any DTCs or such, the whole process has to start over. It is not going to fix itself, and it is not going to set all the Readiness for the generic OBD test until it gets fixed. You are making it more complicated than it really is.

I'm not disagreeing. I only cleared the codes once. It came back after about 150 miles of driving then went off by itself before I checked the code again. Been off since. Haven't gone that many miles since the code turned off. Have an appt to get vehicle inspected this Friday.

If I don't currently have a MIL should I bring it into dealership? I'm within post fix warranty period. Im trying to not waste time by going to dealership only to have them tell me , there's no code so we can do anything. I'm certainly not going to pay for the dpf repair out of pocket so what do you suggest I do with no MIL currently on and car otherwise run into fine?

 

[oilhammer]

I'd take it to the dealership, tell them exactly what has been happening.

 

[Drclaw]

I'd take it to the dealership, tell them exactly what has been happening.

Ok. I'll do that after I get inspected. I either pass or fail but either way I'll go to dealership after that.

 

[Mrrogers1]

I'm not disagreeing. I only cleared the codes once. It came back after about 150 miles of driving then went off by itself before I checked the code again. Been off since. Haven't gone that many miles since the code turned off. Have an appt to get vehicle inspected this Friday.

If I don't currently have a MIL should I bring it into dealership? I'm within post fix warranty period. Im trying to not waste time by going to dealership only to have them tell me , there's no code so we can do anything. I'm certainly not going to pay for the dpf repair out of pocket so what do you suggest I do with no MIL currently on and car otherwise run into fine?

The MIL isn't required AND they are known to go off. If you cleared it in VCDS, then yup, you started it all over again but if you had MIL, then it went off, you checked VCDS and see its stored, then you are good, take to dealership. You should call them, tell them you have an emissions error MIL and arrange for a loaner BEFORE taking to them. When they pull codes themselves, they'll see it and sooty tail pipe and P2002 are sure signs you'll get new DPF at min.

I've dealt, a lot (my car is on it's 5th DPF), with this with the MIL coming on, calling dealer back, then the MIL staying on for days and magically going off. The Service Adviser, advised, to just keep driving and bring in on appointment day. The code is saved, they'll take care of you since it's in the ECM. @oilhammer the last visit they did replaced intake and flap solenoid, cleaned EGR, replaced DFP and EGR filter and I think it's FINALLY fixed. Seized swirl flaps (tech confirmed they were carbon locked) may have been the culprit this whole time. I know I'm getting 10% better MPGeees (hand calculated) now though, so I'm quite happy about that!

 

[Drclaw]

The MIL isn't required AND they are known to go off. If you cleared it in VCDS, then yup, you started it all over again but if you had MIL, then it went off, you checked VCDS and see its stored, then you are good, take to dealership. You should call them, tell them you have an emissions error MIL and arrange for a loaner BEFORE taking to them. When they pull codes themselves, they'll see it and sooty tail pipe and P2002 are sure signs you'll get new DPF at min.

I've dealt, a lot (my car is on it's 5th DPF), with this with the MIL coming on, calling dealer back, then the MIL staying on for days and magically going off. The Service Adviser, advised, to just keep driving and bring in on appointment day. The code is saved, they'll take care of you since it's in the ECM. @oilhammer the last visit they did replaced intake and flap solenoid, cleaned EGR, replaced DFP and EGR filter and I think it's FINALLY fixed. Seized swirl flaps (tech confirmed they were carbon locked) may have been the culprit this whole time. I know I'm getting 10% better MPGeees (hand calculated) now though, so I'm quite happy about that!

Ok - so I filled up this morning, first time since the original MIL light came on, and shortly after that I started having a flashing glow plug. I drove about 8 Miles like that, then parked the car. I turn the car back on in the mil light is on. Of course today is the day I'm scheduled to get my car inspected.

I called my two local dealerships. I'm new to the area and haven't used either of them before. One of them couldn't get me in until August 8th and the other one until July 25th, and that was just to do an evaluation and then determine what to do next. I explained to them my predicament with the vehicle inspection and that I need to get it inspected and even if I fail, the timelines they have to inspect and fix the car or going to exceed the allowance period after I fail my inspection.

There is nothing they could do. I called Volkswagen customer service USA and explained to them the situation. They were able to get me into a appointment at a dealership an hour away this coming Tuesday. I told him that this dealership was too far, but looks like they still made the appointment anyway. I called that dealership and explained to them the situation as well. I told them that it's most likely a DPF failure and would require new parts that they don't have on hand and take some time to repair. I'm expecting I'll need a loaner and asked
If they had one available. They said they don't know but if they don't have a loaner they could put me into a rental.

Assuming my diagnosis is correct, which I'm 99.9% certain it is, and that this is a DPF failure, can they send me home in my vehicle with the check engine light on? Or do they have to put me into a loaner/rental? I'm not thrilled about having to drive an hour to this dealership to get this looked at, but I also need it taken care of asap. I'm trying to streamline this event as much as possible and not have to waste a bunch of time driving down to the dealership, to tell them to have them tell me something that doesn't make sense.

Thoughts?

 

[oilhammer]

This Failtrain left the station TWO WEEKS ago. Hindsight is always 20/20, but the car could have been fixed by now.

Looks like you have a couple choices:

Make the soonest appointment, and drive your car with expired plates or whatever.

Buy another car to drive (this assumes THAT car can be made legal with ease).

Find someone to fix your car sooner, on your dime.

VoA doesn't care about your predicament. Their warranty obligation is well documented, and the parts (and labor) shortages are nothing new (our shop has been a tech down for about two years now).

 

[Drclaw]

This Failtrain left the station TWO WEEKS ago. Hindsight is always 20/20, but the car could have been fixed by now.

Looks like you have a couple choices:

Make the soonest appointment, and drive your car with expired plates or whatever.

Buy another car to drive (this assumes THAT car can be made legal with ease).

Find someone to fix your car sooner, on your dime.

VoA doesn't care about your predicament. Their warranty obligation is well documented, and the parts (and labor) shortages are nothing new (our shop has been a tech down for about two years now).

I get all of that but scheduling warranty issues 30-45 days out seems unreasonable to me. I'm going to take the appt on Tuesday and wanted to get a better idea of expectations for a loaner/rental. If there's such a labor shortage for a long period of time, maybe it's time to increase the pay. I'm sure the VW exec team could do with a few million less in annual comp and increase the lowest wage workers a few bucks an hour. But since they just pass on the inconvenience to their customers they have no incentive to.

i like my VW but I've never spent so much time scheduling, driving back and forth, waiting etc to get my car fixed for warranty related items. I'm in ME but Cumberland county which requires emissions tests. Not sure what kind of test but was hoping I could do a delete in the next year or so and finally start driving a more problem free car.

 

[oilhammer]

It isn't just Volkswagen. We had a fleet of ours bring a BRAND NEW 2022 E-350 in for an oil leak, with less than 80 miles on it, because the Ford dealer told them it'd be a month before they could look at it, and they called about it literally the day after they took delivery.

We had a 2021 Tacoma here waiting on a catalyst (stolen) for over two months, they were on national backorder.

We gave up waiting on a catalyst for another theft job (E-250) that we are currently attempting to install some really abysmal poor fitting aftermarket junk on it just so they can use it. That van has been here for over a month.

There is an estimated 6 month wait time for some parts for a Mazda 3 we have here.

There are still over 600 4L60E transmissions on backorder nationwide (GM trucks), and the newer 6L80 is already taking 2-3 months to get.

We've got a Silverado here that has been waiting on a 5.3L engine for over two months.

We have an F-150 here that just got its new 4.2L engine delivered two weeks ago after a three month wait (and we have no free tech to install it, so it is still waiting).

Good luck finding ANY part for a pre-Fiat ChryCo product.

Nissan CVT availability has been spotty... so spotty we don't even let the car stay here waiting anymore, we make the owner tow them home, because we were up to three of those turds gathering dust on our already cramped lot.

I could go on.... it is nuts right now.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I heard recently that CJAA DPFs are in low supply and you can't order without a VIN. We usually stock a couple but have to dig up VINs to order them now. And I heard this morning that GM has about 100K vehicles that are assembled but not complete because of chip and other component supply issues.

And it's not just car parts. One of our suppliers in NJ shipped us two pallets of parts on June 22. We haven't received it yet, and since Tuesday the shipping company has been pushing the delivery date a day at a time. Now it's July 5. So it'll take two weeks or so to get a shipment from NJ. We used to get freight deliveries the next day, no problem.

One more thing: The VW dealer we buy from called this AM to tell us we weren't getting our order today. The truck from their parts center in NJ didn't come up here today. Didn't yesterday, either. Our contact said they have a service center and parking lot full of customer cars waiting for parts, but VW isn't delivering them. Those customers can look forward to a holiday weekend without their cars.

Interesting times we're living in.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Drclaw, where are you in MA?

 

[Drclaw]

Drclaw, where are you in MA?

I'm in ME now. Was on cape cod before and stopped in at Idparts in person a few times.

 

[Drclaw]

It isn't just Volkswagen. We had a fleet of ours bring a BRAND NEW 2022 E-350 in for an oil leak, with less than 80 miles on it, because the Ford dealer told them it'd be a month before they could look at it, and they called about it literally the day after they took delivery.

We had a 2021 Tacoma here waiting on a catalyst (stolen) for over two months, they were on national backorder.

We gave up waiting on a catalyst for another theft job (E-250) that we are currently attempting to install some really abysmal poor fitting aftermarket junk on it just so they can use it. That van has been here for over a month.

There is an estimated 6 month wait time for some parts for a Mazda 3 we have here.

There are still over 600 4L60E transmissions on backorder nationwide (GM trucks), and the newer 6L80 is already taking 2-3 months to get.

We've got a Silverado here that has been waiting on a 5.3L engine for over two months.

We have an F-150 here that just got its new 4.2L engine delivered two weeks ago after a three month wait (and we have no free tech to install it, so it is still waiting).

Good luck finding ANY part for a pre-Fiat ChryCo product.

Nissan CVT availability has been spotty... so spotty we don't even let the car stay here waiting anymore, we make the owner tow them home, because we were up to three of those turds gathering dust on our already cramped lot.

I could go on.... it is nuts right now.

I'm just ranting here but maybe If these corps didn't buy avacado toast and Starbucks every day they'd have some parts saved for a rainy day. I'm being sarcastic but seriously if these businesses were better prepared for the downturns it wouldn't be such a disaster right now. The focus is and has been on maximizing profits now nevermind tomorrow. The corps always win and the consumers are always left feeling the brunt of this poor planning. My last point is that supplies aside the dealerships couldn't get me in to do an incoming inspection. I'm sure a lot of the backup is supply chain related but you can't tell me that if there were more people working in the shop they wouldn't be able to turn over the current backlog faster and the labor shortage is def due to **** wages across the board.

I've changed my consumer habits and would gladly pay more for companies that stand behind their product and provide excellent customer service.

 

[Mongler98]

I've changed my consumer habits and would gladly pay more for companies that stand behind their product and provide excellent customer service.

all i hear is you have more $ than before!