Out of alignment/tire question 2017 Jetta

TDICube

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2006
Hello,
We own a 2017 Jetta gasser that needed front tires with 53000 miles on them (uneven inside tire wear). Because of sale, we just went ahead and purchased 4tires.
Alignment shop aligned vehicle on front wheels and passenger side wheel.
Question, do these vehicles go out of alignment easily?

We choose between between Bridgestone and Michelin tires. I always gave a nod to Michelins but the Turanza Quiettracks spec out nicely on this vehicle. Any thoughts?
Thank You,
TDICube
 

Dannyboy

Veteran Member
Joined
May 25, 2013
Location
Mb
TDI
2014
Depends on how the vehicle is maintained. If all the suspension and steering components are in good shape you shouldn't have an issue.
People who curb wheels or constantly drive into potholes usually end up with alignment issues. Every vehicle ends up with this issue, some more than others.
 

ezshift5

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2003
Location
West Coast
TDI
2013 JSW TDI (Enroute BB).......2017 Jetta 1.4 turbo 5M ....................
My 2017 Jetta 1.4L 5M - at 51,000 - reads 7/32 on my tread depth device......factory Ecopia tires. Evenly worn.
 

TDICube

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2006
ezshift5,
What kind of fuel mileage are you getting with your Ecopia fuel mileage tires?
We we’re getting 38mpg with combined city and highway driving On Turanza QT’s.
TC
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The IRS NCS will normally wear the inside of the tires faster than the outside, but depending on tire size, it may not be that much of a difference. The 15" ones will be the longest lasting, and they get worse from there.

If you do not rotate the tires as specified, the fronts will wear much faster.

There is a treadwear rating on the tire, under normal circumstances (tires kept rotated, inflated, etc.) that will usually correspond to the mileage within a margin. So if the rating is 500, then one could expect them to last up to 50k miles, but not always.

Swiped from one of our tire suppliers:


UTQG Treadwear grades are based on actual road use where the test tire is run in a convoy on a 400-mile test loop in Texas (West Texas, actually) for a total of 7,200 miles. The test vehicle can have its alignment set, air pressure checked, and tires rotated every 800 miles. At the end of the 7,200 mile test, the wear on the tires is measured and compared to a reference tire that was being run under the same conditions. If the test tire is expected to last as long as the reference tire, it receives a UTQG Treadwear grade of 100. If it is expected to last twice as long, it would receive a grade of 200. 300 means it is expected to last three times as long, and so on.

The reason the Treadwear grade may not be incredibly reliable is twofold. First, since the tires are only run for 7,200 miles, the tire manufacturers have to extrapolate the remainder of the data, and that can be open to some interpretation. Second, the tire manufacturers are allowed to under-report the Treadwear grade, just not over-report it. So if a tire technically may be able to achieve a 700 rating, the manufacturer (primarily the marketing department) might want to report it as 400 to make it "fit" better in a certain market segment. As a result, it is generally only somewhat helpful to compare Treadwear grades on tires from the same manufacturer, and we don’t recommend comparing grades between different brands

So, in short, a lower number Michelin will wear out faster than one that is a higher number, if everything else is the same. But you may get more life from a 600 rated Michelin than you would a 600 rated Bridgestone. Also beware that super high treadwear numbers mean typically a super hard tire, which may last a long time, but it will be worse at literally everything else a tire is expected to do: grip the road, be quiet, stay round.

VAG low profile tires wrapped around wide deep offset rims means the rims get bent... a LOT. Very easily. If you have a lot of potholes in your area, or routinely get romantic with curbs, you'll experience bent wheels. There is not a week that goes by that I don't see a bent wheel. Often more than one, on the same car... this week it is ALL FOUR on the same car. This will cause all sorts of weirdness, and the rims can be bent so bad that the rolling compensation the alignment machine's heads do cannot ever be expected to be right, so the alignment may be out of whack too but unless the wheels are true you could never know.

The NCS also tears through control arm compliance bushings fairly regularly. The NMS is worse even. While 50k would seem premature for this, I would still want to look closely at those. That will cause faster front tire inner edge wear, too. It is Wednesday, and I am about to do compliance bushing job number four today for this week. That's how common they are. Don't expect a tire/alignment chain store to properly check this stuff. They certainly don't around here.

Get a printout of the alignment. The NCS with IRS has a fully adjustable rear suspension, and unless you are in the salt wastes, it adjusts without too much trouble. And if the front is off beyond just the toe setting, the subframe can be shifted about a bit to get camber and caster back in spec (or at least closer to spec) if need be. In extreme (post crash) cases, I've also had to oval-out the upper strut mounted holes in the body, which can afford a bit more adjustment.
 

TDICube

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2006
Thank you OH for the thorough explanation!
I was not quite clear with alignment data:
Front two tires a bit out of toe and passenger side rear a bit out of toe too.
We rotate tires regularly.
I will not use UTQG as the gospel.
All things considered, the brand tires on sale is the deciding factor.

Thanks Oil,
TC
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I am a Michelin guy myself, that is and has always been my brand of choice. Their QC is second to none. You can actually SEE this when you mount and spin balance the tires. Not to say there are not other good tires out there, but they often have a bigger variability to things like that. I can order four Michelins, and know for certain they'll all be good. But four of something else may yield one that isn't quite round. A coworker wanted to stick with the Goodyear Wranglers that came on his Durango, and found it always took six tires to find four good ones. But if you are not personally there and seeing the tire spin, the goons at a tire chain store or big box store that also sells tires (I could write a book on the Crimes Against Mechanicals inflicted by such) won't notice nor care. You can balance a crappy unround tire. But guess what? You still have a crappy unround tire.

So, on tire brands: stay away from anything that was manufactured in southeast Asia. Philippines, Vietnam, Korea, Thailand, and especially China. They all will have substandard rubber in the mix. Japan is often not like that, though, although not many tires are made there but a few Toyos and Dunlops I know are. The Korean brands are junk: Nexen, Hankook, Kumho... garbage, no matter where they are made.

Uniroyal and BF Goodrich, subsidiaries of Michelin, are generally fairly decent but I don't think they have the best offerings for cars. But the BFG All Terrain T/A is the gold standard for 4x4 pickups.

Bridgestone/Firestone are a mixed bag. They also have their cheapo line Fuzion. I'd probably only say some of the Bridgestone models are even worth a look, but they typically have a stickier tread with shorter life.

Not a fan of Goodyear, never seen so many defective tires from a major brand.

Pirelli used to be decent, but then they sold out to the Chinese, so I would avoid them.

Continental-General we've in recent years had pretty good success with most of their stuff. The General Altimax RT-43 (now the RT-45) has proven to be an excellent middle of the road tire that we've sold a lot of, and without issues. I actually just bought a set for one of my Golfs to try them out personally, but so far they seem fine. They are a good blend of quality and price.

Don't get anything directional, you cannot cross rotate those, and that helps equalize any tire wear. Rears straight to front, fronts criss-crossed to back. That way every tire spends time at every corner. Maximizes the wear.

Don't go by the door placard inflation pressures... they only give FULL LOAD now, because of fallout from the whole Ford-Firestone fiasco, and why we have to have the stupid TPMS on our cars. But the good news is, VAG, Honda, and Mazda have figured out how to just do this will wheel speed, no ignorant stupid sensors to deal with, which means we can put the pressure at whatever we like. Unless you are actually carrying a full load, you won't need all that air pressure on the rear axle of a nose-heavy FWD car, that's ridiculous... but again, our gov't thinking we cannot think for ourselves. The older cars (around 2001 was the change) have HALF and MAX loads listed, some may have three loads listed. But in any event, driving around with just the driver and an occasional passenger is not cause to put 40 psi in the hind end of a Golf, that's dumb. Use your best judgement here, but in my FWD A4 dubs I usually run 38 front and 32 rear, a bit more in the heavier B5s, and if I am loading something substantial in the trunk for any length of time I'll bump up the rear as needed.

And again, check those compliance bushings!
 

ezshift5

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2003
Location
West Coast
TDI
2013 JSW TDI (Enroute BB).......2017 Jetta 1.4 turbo 5M ....................
ezshift5,
What kind of fuel mileage are you getting with your Ecopia fuel mileage tires?
We we’re getting 38mpg with combined city and highway driving On Turanza QT’s.
TC
Fuelly.com - for over 51,000 miles - calc's just under 41 MPG for my '17 VW Jetta 1.4L 5M
 

TDICube

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2006
Nice fuel mileage ez. When taking into account of diesel fuel prices, the 1.4L Jettas maybe the way to go.
Oil, As always, thank you for in-depth answer and tire recommendations. Michelins are the top of the food chain for round balanced tires. And do a little tire pressure research to optimize ride quality.
A bit off-subject but bicycling road tire size and pressure recommendations has made a 180 degree turn. Old school philosophy was to go smaller at higher pressures for speed; now bigger tires (up to a point) at a lower pressure (more supple ) pressure is the way to go
Watch the control arm compliance bushing. Got it!
TDICube
 
Last edited:

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I really like that 1.4L turbo. And while I am not a huge fan of the NCS cars, the short-lived Jetta hybrid is a real good running car. Hybrid and fun to drive don't often come together, but those cars delivered just that. Too bad the battery placement took half the trunk away, but the 1.4L engine coupled to the 7sp DSG and the hybrid motor was a good combo. But at least the engine soldiered on. Sadly, the Golf is gone now, and the new Jetta is gross.
 

TDICube

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2006
107,000 trouble-free miles with 1.4l engine. I hear u, compared to our 2006 TDI, the 2017 is not as solid. We purchased a second Jetta for our daughter to learn manual.
When do u recommend timing belt change on 1.4L?
Isn’t it crazy how small the engine looks under the hood?
I am getting overloaded with information.😀
thanks again,
TDICube
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
So, on the timing belt... I am curious as to what your 2017's manual says. Alldata just says "check" at 150k miles, and "if replacement is not necessary, check every 20k miles until replacement is necessary", which makes no sense at all to me. And they provide no information as to what one would specifically be checking, because my experience has shown me that timing belts are much like light bulbs. They "look" perfectly fine right up until they are not, and that is why they have a specified service interval.

My gut tells me that they should be perfectly fine for at least 100k miles, and probably 120k miles easily. Perhaps longer is safe if those miles are piled on rapidly (relatively short amount of time). I've seen plenty of CJAAs and CKRAs with over 150k miles on their original belts and they were perfectly fine, and when the new 2015s were coming out, there was talk of VAG floating things like "lifetime" belt which is a broad and vague statement but I'd take it to be in the 150k mile range. Modern belts, the few that are left in use, are generally very, very good.

The 1.4L of course has its suite of SSTs (Special Service Tools) that will be required, and as of yet I've not had to purchase them but I think I will shortly. The one regular I have with one (a 2015 hybrid) that would/should need it first is notoriously cheap, so he'll probably not let me do it and if/when it becomes imperative that he does, he'll probably just trade in the car (lots of people are like that.... the whole inflamed George Costanza gland... "cheapness").

There is also some that have, and some that do not have, variable exhaust cams. They all have variable intake cams. Truthfully, still learning about that engine, as so far all I've had to do to them is oil changes and spark plugs. They are a different family of VAG 4 cyl engines, they are not the same as the [awful] EA888 2.0L and 1.8L engines, which is a good thing. There is a 1.5L, too, in the new Taos and the newest Jettas, but I am not sure what those are exactly, not seen one yet.
 

TDICube

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2006
Hi Oil,
I was planning on getting the timing belt done this summer at trusted independent shop. Thanks for affirmation.😀
For our truck, I will proactively get Michelins when they are on sale.
And watch 2017 Jetta compliance bushings!
TDICube
 

ezshift5

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2003
Location
West Coast
TDI
2013 JSW TDI (Enroute BB).......2017 Jetta 1.4 turbo 5M ....................
107,000 trouble-free miles with 1.4l engine. I hear u, compared to our 2006 TDI, the 2017 is not as solid. We purchased a second Jetta for our daughter to learn manual.
When do u recommend timing belt change on 1.4L?
Isn’t it crazy how small the engine looks under the hood?
I am getting overloaded with information.😀
thanks again,
TDICube
Hi "Cube",

When you mention 107,000 trouble-free miles with 1.4L engine, you have really made me happy.

I am now realizing - at 51k - what a great deal buying the '17 Jetta 1.4L S is proving to be.

Thanks for posting,

ez
 

TDICube

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2006
Hi EZ,
We purchased our 2017 SE manual after diesel gate and were satisfied with price. Besides normal maintenance, replaced driver side heated seat control module.
Oil Hammer’s endorsement for the 1.4L engine got me excited too!😀
By the way, we only use Pentosin oil in both Jettas. (Oil Hammer professional fill)
You are welcome,
TDICube
 

ezshift5

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2003
Location
West Coast
TDI
2013 JSW TDI (Enroute BB).......2017 Jetta 1.4 turbo 5M ....................
Hi (again) 'Cube,

While I do miss my JSW TDI 6M - this 1.4L replacement - after the $25k buyback - is really appreciated by this old sailor.

In other news, I'm thinking about asking OH about the newer Jettas - using the same spark plugs - have a longer plug change interval than my 2017..................

It's all good amigo,


ez
 
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