OTR Manufacturers Hit By Fuel Prices/Economy

[scooperhsd]

There's a place for all three - ships, rail, and trucks. We need all of them to do business in the most effiecent manner. There's also a place for planes and POVs (privately owned vehicles).

 

[FL2AK-tdi]

Really the big Class 8s are the second most efficient way to move that cargo across the country, second only to freight rail. Pound for pound, those trucks are more efficient than, say, a TDI or a Prius (~3k pounds) doing 60mpg. Even if the truck is only getting 4mpg while fully loaded, it's more efficient per pound than any passenger car on the road.

Weight percentages are better, too. Large transit trucks and buses carry a higher percentage of cargo to vehicle weight relative to smaller passenger cars. For instance, on my 55 passenger bus, I can be carrying almost ten thousand pounds worth of passengers (55 passengers @180 pounds apiece, not unusual in a college environment). With a 22k pound bus, this puts my total weight at just shy of 32k pounds, with a perhaps startling 31% of that being made up of passengers.

Put five of those same 180 pound individuals in a Prius (2921# curb weight + 900# passenger weight = 3821 total combined) and you have a mere 24% and less space per person than you would on the bus. I've been in the back seat of a Prius (or any 5-passenger car, really), I would much rather be on the bus than the guy stuck in the middle.

Big OTR rigs have even higher percentages of cargo weight to total weight, perhaps only beaten by trains. Rail is, in fact, more efficient than trucking, but it has it's drawbacks that make trucking appealing, such as difficulty of distribution and the need to have dedicated lines.

Ummm, why are my remarks in your signature line?

 

[darkscout]

Same reason you quoted someone else. It's an entertaining quote that many can relate to.

 

[FL2AK-tdi]

Same reason you quoted someone else. It's an entertaining quote that many can relate to.

I kind of thought that; I think I'm getting a tad too suspicous around here lol.

 

[Dimitri16V]

The subprime mortgage problem is not the feds fault. Its the fault of the banks that want to loan money to anyone , if they can pay it back or not. I don't feel sorry for them or the people that buy the home.
Greg

really ? and who is the Fed ? a bunch of banks ..

 

[TurbinePower]

Ummm, why are my remarks in your signature line?

'cause it's the first line on this forum that's almost drawn soda out my nose from the first reaction. I love it.

 

[FL2AK-tdi]

'cause it's the first line on this forum that's almost drawn soda out my nose from the first reaction. I love it.

Too funny. Rock on.

 

[retmil46]

Well, the list in the plant still says 1500 to be laid off on June 6th.

But, I've been starting to hear little tidbits in the last few days, from both our groupleader, the personnel office, and people who have already made a visit to the local ESC office - still just rumors, but given the source and context, rumors that could be given some level of credence - that maybe, just maybe, the June 6th layoff will end up being canceled.

Our groupleader spoke with the head of the personnel office on 2nd shift, and when the subject of truck orders came up, he relates that she said it was "on the fence" right now as far as having enough orders on hand to cancel the layoff - it could still go either way.

I've also spoken with people who have visited the local ESC office, and they related that the ESC personnel told them the signals they were getting from corporate was that the layoff most likely would not happen.

But as always, perpare for the worst and hope for the best - posted list still says I'm getting laid off, and I'm continuing with my job search and financial preparations for being out of work - but perhaps now I have enough reason to keep my fingers crossed.

 

[dieselgrandad]

Well hopefully that's some good news if only a glimmer. Here I figured you had your bags all packed. Did you ask your buddy what kind of ris they use?

Talked to my brother-i-l just now, about the B-S issue. He's an accountant w/ an MBA, now works for (three letter acronym) on major mergers/buy-outs (he says anything under 8 figures is "chump-change"). He hadn't heard anything about the B-S bonus deals, but said "sumthin ain't right". He wants to know why "why Chase? why no competitive bids?" and "how come the price went from $2 to $10 in four days?" He doesn't think this is over either.

 

[Da~da~da]

Keeping my fingers crossed for you!

 

[TurbinePower]

Keeping my fingers crossed for you!

x2! Avoided layoffs are almost always a good thing.

 

[retmil46]

Well hopefully that's some good news if only a glimmer. Here I figured you had your bags all packed. Did you ask your buddy what kind of ris they use?

Well, I did have one of those green all-purpose suitcases dug out of mothballs and ready to fill up. It's still in hot standby, or "hot behind the stops" - we'll see what happens in the next 3 or 4 weeks.

Couple of the supervisors say that the production schedule is showing a full 2 shift build rate for 4th quarter now - it's just 3rd quarter that is still sucky. That's why it looks that the company really doesn't want to do this layoff - trying to call back people after a 3 month layoff and training new hires to take the place of those that don't come back - that'll play hell with build rates and they'll get hammered by their customers if the trucks aren't delivered on time.

Didn't get a chance to ask my friend about what rigs they use yet, I'll be giving him a call this weekend. His wife called me yesterday and gave me a 1-800 number to call - wasn't able to get the full low-down from her, but apparently they're starting up a new operation down there - either oil/gas drilling or a new power plant from what I gathered - and they're needing everyone - electricians, mechanics, operators, etc - pay from $12 to high 20's DOE. She'd already badgered the significant other into giving them a call - pretty easy for her, 5 ft 8 or better, athletic, and most definitely not a weakling - I certainly wouldn't want her pissed off at ME!

On the good side as far as layoff preparations - already had the '87 MB 300D scheduled for tranny wrk when they announced the layoff - got tired of losing a quart of tranny fluid every 2 weeks, been leaking since I bought the beast. Did a complete seal replacement on the tranny, flexdiscs and center support bearing on the driveshaft, adjusted all the throttle and control linkages (hadn't been touched in 20 years) and reset the electronic idle control back to spec (some joker had it dialed up to 730 rpm), and tweaked in the tranny after it was done.

End result - that beast jumped from 30 up to 35 mpg average driving to work! Just knocked at least $5 off the weekly fuel bill, and definitely good news if it comes to covering long distances in Texas. And I still haven't touched those 20 year old injectors yet to get rid of that "woodpecker" living under the hood at low rpm.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I too am in the trucking industry. I'm a KW truck salesman here in TX.

Business has been quite bad for some time but it is now picking up slowly but surely.

Like many others in this economy I am feeling the pain. I will make about 50% less $ this year since I am a commission paid sales guy. To be honest, I'm more worried about the long time financial health of my customers and the industry in general.

Thankfully I have paid cash for everything I own except my house and my bills are quite low.

 

[dieselgrandad]

Not OTR stuff but GM announced today the they would be cutting back on trucks and SUV's. Gonna' cost the Janesville, WI plant something like 750 jobs.

Hope those economic stimulus checks get here soon to pull us out of this mess.

 

[Da~da~da]

CNN article "in defense of oil companies"

http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/29/markets/thebuzz/index.htm

I think that this article does a good job at getting across what I was trying to elude to earlier in this post. The author makes a good point about windfall taxes

"Even though many oil companies are reporting record profits, many people forget just how expensive it is for energy companies to engage in the oil business.

The average net profit margin for the S&P Energy sector, according to figures from Thomson Baseline, is 9.7%. The average for the S&P 500 is 8.5%. So yes, energy companies are more profitable than many others...but not by an inordinate amount.

Google, for example, reported a net profit margin of 25% in its most recent quarter. Should we have an online advertising windfall profit tax?

Remember free markets?
At the end of the day, we shouldn't emulate Venezuela of all places and slap higher taxes on oil companies just because crude is around $120 a barrel. In free markets, there are times when many companies do well and others will not."


Looking forward to everyone's responses

 

[FL2AK-tdi]

http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/29/markets/thebuzz/index.htm

I think that this article does a good job at getting across what I was trying to elude to earlier in this post. The author makes a good point about windfall taxes

"Even though many oil companies are reporting record profits, many people forget just how expensive it is for energy companies to engage in the oil business.

The average net profit margin for the S&P Energy sector, according to figures from Thomson Baseline, is 9.7%. The average for the S&P 500 is 8.5%. So yes, energy companies are more profitable than many others...but not by an inordinate amount.

Google, for example, reported a net profit margin of 25% in its most recent quarter. Should we have an online advertising windfall profit tax?

Perhaps, if things get desperate enough.

Remember free markets?
At the end of the day, we shouldn't emulate Venezuela of all places and slap higher taxes on oil companies just because crude is around $120 a barrel. In free markets, there are times when many companies do well and others will not."

Venezuela, where fuel cost something like pennies per gallon. And some how OUR system is better?

I think what this entire arguement, what this thread and several others on tdiclub boils down to is simply this: Do we allow a scant 5% of the country to control and amass 95% of the wealth for themelves, while opressing the other 95% or do we ensure economic justice by guranteeing that the economic resources of America are accessible to all Americans, as a true deomcracy, or do we just keep transferring our money up the chain?

That is the essential question.

Tax margins and percentages are irrelevant. It is a simple matter of can the oil companies afford to give back to this country?

So, do you care about other people, or only yourself?

In fact, do you even care about yourself, because I doubt very few of us in here are in much different shape, economically speaking. The policies yo support hurt not only your neighbors, but yourself as well.


It's not about capitalism or communism, it's about making sure that we all do better when we all do better.

 

[visionlogic]

"Under free trade the trader is the master and the producer the slave. Protection is but the law of nature, the law of self-preservation, of self-development, of securing the highest and best destiny of the race of man. [It is said] that protection is immoral…. Why, if protection builds up and elevates 63,000,000 [the U.S. population] of people, the influence of those 63,000,000 of people elevates the rest of the world. We cannot take a step in the pathway of progress without benefitting mankind everywhere. Well, they say, ‘Buy where you can buy the cheapest'…. Of course, that applies to labor as to everything else. Let me give you a maxim that is a thousand times better than that, and it is the protection maxim: ‘Buy where you can pay the easiest.' And that spot of earth is where labor wins its highest rewards."
- President William McKinley - REPUBLICAN

When did we slide into an inverse universe?

 

[FL2AK-tdi]

"Under free trade the trader is the master and the producer the slave. Protection is but the law of nature, the law of self-preservation, of self-development, of securing the highest and best destiny of the race of man. [It is said] that protection is immoral…. Why, if protection builds up and elevates 63,000,000 [the U.S. population] of people, the influence of those 63,000,000 of people elevates the rest of the world. We cannot take a step in the pathway of progress without benefitting mankind everywhere. Well, they say, ‘Buy where you can buy the cheapest'…. Of course, that applies to labor as to everything else. Let me give you a maxim that is a thousand times better than that, and it is the protection maxim: ‘Buy where you can pay the easiest.' And that spot of earth is where labor wins its highest rewards."
- President William McKinley - REPUBLICAN

When did we slide into an inverse universe?

I just finished a college class on this lol, called the Populaist and Progressive Era A451. We slid into an inverse universe sometime after the 1912 presidential election. The Democrats began to co-opt much of the Republican platform at that time and the Republicans becan to move tot he right. The only thing the Democrats didn't adopt fromt he Republicans after 1912: race. The Democratic "Solid South" would not have tolerated a relaxig of relations towards their former slaves. It would take another 50 years for that. Oh wait, we're still not there.

 

[MrMopar]

Not OTR stuff but GM announced today the they would be cutting back on trucks and SUV's. Gonna' cost the Janesville, WI plant something like 750 jobs.

Relax, those schlubs at GM are going to get layoff benefits that amount to something like 80% of their base salary. Other laid-off people in other industries wish they were that lucky.

 

[MrMopar]

Tax margins and percentages are irrelevant. It is a simple matter of can the oil companies afford to give back to this country?

Maybe they can afford to give back to the USA, but (this is the important part) THEY ARE UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO GIVE BACK IF THEY DO NOT WANT TO.

Profit is not a dirty word. Money made as profit comes back around when it is invested into all the aspects that are required to make an oil company continue to be profitable and successful for the long term future.

 

[LanduytG]

Perhaps, if things get desperate enough.



Venezuela, where fuel cost something like pennies per gallon. And some how OUR system is better?

I think what this entire arguement, what this thread and several others on tdiclub boils down to is simply this: Do we allow a scant 5% of the country to control and amass 95% of the wealth for themelves, while opressing the other 95% or do we ensure economic justice by guranteeing that the economic resources of America are accessible to all Americans, as a true deomcracy, or do we just keep transferring our money up the chain?

That is the essential question.

Tax margins and percentages are irrelevant. It is a simple matter of can the oil companies afford to give back to this country?

So, do you care about other people, or only yourself?

In fact, do you even care about yourself, because I doubt very few of us in here are in much different shape, economically speaking. The policies yo support hurt not only your neighbors, but yourself as well.


It's not about capitalism or communism, it's about making sure that we all do better when we all do better.

Its easy just get out and make more money so you can be in the top 5%. Why should I or anyone else pay for someone thats not willing to work for or better them selves? I don't beleive in and everyone is equal type mentality. If you want more go out and earn it and don't expect others to give it to you just becasue they have more. But their are those that do need help and they should get it.

Greg

Greg

 

[TurbinePower]

Venezuela, where fuel cost something like pennies per gallon. And some how OUR system is better?

Venezuela is an oil exporting nation with a nationalized oil industry, and is presently suffering food shortages and massive increases in the cost of food, a majority of which must be imported. Most of the food shortages stem from the government's policy of fixing the cost of important food items, which means they cannot be sold for sufficient amounts to allow the purchase of more from the world market. This is, unfortunately, the ultimate end result of most price-fixing solutions from governments.

The US system probably couldn't be transplanted to Venezuela without major issues, but I can almost guarantee the Venezuelan system could not be transplanted to the US without catastrophic collapses.

I think what this entire arguement, what this thread and several others on tdiclub boils down to is simply this: Do we allow a scant 5% of the country to control and amass 95% of the wealth for themelves, while opressing the other 95% or do we ensure economic justice by guranteeing that the economic resources of America are accessible to all Americans, as a true deomcracy, or do we just keep transferring our money up the chain?

America is not, has not been and hopefully will never be a "true democracy." End of story, simple as that.

 

[lkchris]

Why are you worried ? there are people here that will tell this is just a hiccup of the economy.

BTW, care to guess what kind of trucks Halliburton and the other Cheney companies are buying with OUR money for use in Iraq ?

MERCEDES BENZ

Daimler owns Freightliner you know.

http://www.daimler-trucksnorthamerica.com

 

[FL2AK-tdi]

Relax, those schlubs at GM are going to get layoff benefits that amount to something like 80% of their base salary. Other laid-off people in other industries wish they were that lucky.

I would have settled for one half of one percent. Anything. I got nothing. I did't even get the "retraining money" that Bush promised us all.

 

[FL2AK-tdi]

America is not, has not been and hopefully will never be a "true democracy." End of story, simple as that.

And there you have it folks, right from the conservative horse's mouth. That is exactly what this all about. Do you or do you not want to live in a democracy?

 

[Bob_Fout]

And there you have it folks, right from the conservative horse's mouth. That is exactly what this all about. Do you or do you not want to live in a democracy?

Think back to high school or college government class. We NEVER had a true democracy.

 

[FL2AK-tdi]

Maybe they can afford to give back to the USA, but (this is the important part) THEY ARE UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO GIVE BACK IF THEY DO NOT WANT TO.

And that's why we're in the fix we're in. (part of why) They can just take take take from us and never put anything back. That's what needs to be changed. That's what will never change.

 

[FL2AK-tdi]

Think back to high school or college government class. We NEVER had a true democracy.

yeah yeah, I know the whole story about Ben Franklin telling hte old guy, we gave you a republic.

But that doesn't mean we can't all work together for the common good. And the common good is a democracy. Just in case you thought otherwise.

 

[TurbinePower]

And there you have it folks, right from the conservative horse's mouth. That is exactly what this all about. Do you or do you not want to live in a democracy?

No, I do not. I do not want to live in a place where everyone gets a say in what gets done, down to the infants and the truly mentally incompetent. A true democracy would be so sluggish and full of potential for "spoofing" votes to sway it one way or another that more nothing would be done on every subject than the nothing that gets done now, with a representative republic.

 

[TurbinePower]

yeah yeah, I know the whole story about Ben Franklin telling hte old guy, we gave you a republic.

But that doesn't mean we can't all work together for the common good. And the common good is a democracy. Just in case you thought otherwise.

Democracy is not "the common good." Dictatorships are not "the common good," and neither are republics, monarchies, oligarchies, or socialism. Socialism comes closest, but even then it falls a bit short.

Democracy is rule by the majority and nothing more.