Opinions on my situation.

Locoelectrician

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Location
Ohio
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Golf SEL Sportwagen, 2005 Jetta TDI, John Deere 355D
Typically a reader and a lurker, and the last person who would normally post something like this, but I've read so many people's personal situations I figure I would post mine and listen to advice from uninvolved outside eyes.

Quick history. I got divorced in 2012 and due to unfounded financial fears, sold my BMW 545I to my employer. Replaced it with an 06 accord that I bought at a high interest rate due to my ex wife's inability to pay bills and therefore a crap credit score. In October 2013, I traded it in (at great loss) on a 2013 Passat TDI sel premium. Negative equity on the Honda and crap interest rate on the Passat has me pretty backwards on the whole deal.

I owe 22,500 on the car and my buyback offer (with 85k miles) is 23800. If I accept the fix I get 6500. Icould accept the fix, put the 6500 towards principal, and basically buy my own used nearly 90k mile car, or sell it back and walk away out from under the negative equity. Walking away obviously sounds smarter, with the exception of the fact that I drive 100 miles a day and absolutely LOVE my Passat. Best car I've ever owned. Period.

My credit score is good now. (Amazing how that works when you manage your own money and pay your own bills). My first thought was to buy a brand new, 2 year old 2015 Passat TDI sel when and if they become available for sale. The gamble is, with no 2016, and probably no 2017, the great deal on a 2 year old new car may not exist due to less supply than demand. I've been working with 3 local dealers and they know absolutely nothing. One of them actually called me today to ask what the latest info was because they are so in the dark.

One of the dealers has a 2014 TDI sel premium (basically identical to mine) with 29000 miles. They are selling it as used obviously as no sale on new or CPO. Price as of now is 19k.

Buy the 14? Gamble on waiting for a 15? Hold out for a possibly never existing 18? I'm interested in any and all mature opinions. If you're still reading, I appreciate your time.
 

tobianogreg

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2015
Location
Kamloops BC Canada
TDI
2013 Jetta returned
From what I've read, VW will be allowed to fix and resell all vehicles that are going to be turned in. So I don't think supply will be a problem.

It's tough to suggest taking any fix when we don't know what the impacts will be. But if you love the car and have had no problems??

I'd be inclined to grab the cash and look for a good deal but it's a tough call. VW might very well throw some further incentives at you.
 

autdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Location
Alabama
TDI
2000 NB, 2003 NB, 2006 Touareg, 2015 Jetta, 2013 Beetle, 2013 Touareg
From what I've read, VW will be allowed to fix and resell all vehicles that are going to be turned in. So I don't think supply will be a problem.

It's tough to suggest taking any fix when we don't know what the impacts will be. But if you love the car and have had no problems??

I'd be inclined to grab the cash and look for a good deal but it's a tough call. VW might very well throw some further incentives at you.
Pending acceptance of the fix.

Gen 3, CARB is going to have a hard time denying it, the car may be under the limit as is, if not, it's really close.

The other two are a gamble, maybe it gets approved, maybe it doesn't. if it's not approved, they can't export them, without fixing them first, and if they can't fix them, not much other than salvage parts to do with them. Once it is pushed through the trade in, VW has to strip ECU, DPF and something else in the exhaust, effectively making it a roller at that point.
 

Locoelectrician

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Location
Ohio
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Golf SEL Sportwagen, 2005 Jetta TDI, John Deere 355D
I guess my thinking, which may be incorrect, is if I keep the car I love, I owe 22500 on it. Take the 6500 off and I'm "buying" it at 17000 with close to 90k on it. For about the same price I can get a year newer with 29k miles. I know it's all up in the air and nobody knows for sure, so there is no definitive answer, but I appreciate the opinions so far. I really want a 16 but that seems out of the question. The big gamble is what will the 15s that are "new" be discounted to. No question mark because obviously nobody has an answer.
 

Locoelectrician

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Location
Ohio
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Golf SEL Sportwagen, 2005 Jetta TDI, John Deere 355D
sell it back, buy a newer one with a better loan because you have better credit now
Absolutely, it's my one chance to drop the negative equity. My issue is buy the 14 or gamble on a deal on a "new" 15.
 

waltzconmigo

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Location
chicagoland
TDI
none
loco---i was engaged to someone like that, luckily never tied the knot, take the '14 and this once in a lifetime opportunity to get out from under the negative equity and never look back. why gamble on a better opportunity than you are already presented with?
 

GetMore

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2003
Location
Patterson, New York
TDI
1997 Passat TDI, 2010 Jetta Sportwagen
Wait until summer or fall of 2018, and then decide what you want to do. Obviously you will lose some of the value of the buyback, since you will be driving more than the agreement allows for, but it will be less than the depreciation on anything else you could buy.

You are driving roughly 1,500 miles more per month than the allowed 1,042.

If you waited until December 2018 you would "lose" $6,510 for the extra mileage. However, at more than 30,000 miles per year, that is less than the mileage adjustment on any other car. As a matter of fact, you would lose more than that in depreciation on a new car, even if you didn't drive it, and that would just about be in the first year, never mind two. Think about how the value of even that '14 will drop with the mileage you are putting on it. Since it is two years old it should have depreciated about 25-30%. After five years it's value would be about 50%, with "normal" mileage.

When enough people have gotten the fix done and we have solid feedback on what it does to the cars you will be able to make an educated decision on fixing it or selling it back. And who knows, maybe 2018 will bring diesels back again.

Oh, and I would see about refinancing the loan, if possible, to lower the rate.
 

waltzconmigo

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2010
Location
chicagoland
TDI
none
getmore---if he can swing a few months of double payments he can come out way ahead with a 2my newer car that has 60k less miles that is still eligible for the fix money and may qualify for some for some of the restitution money, if I understand correctly, AND HE GETS OUT FROM UNDER THE NEGATIVE EQUITY!!!
 

Locoelectrician

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Location
Ohio
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Golf SEL Sportwagen, 2005 Jetta TDI, John Deere 355D
Wait until summer or fall of 2018, and then decide what you want to do. Obviously you will lose some of the value of the buyback, since you will be driving more than the agreement allows for, but it will be less than the depreciation on anything else you could buy.

You are driving roughly 1,500 miles more per month than the allowed 1,042.

If you waited until December 2018 you would "lose" $6,510 for the extra mileage. However, at more than 30,000 miles per year, that is less than the mileage adjustment on any other car. As a matter of fact, you would lose more than that in depreciation on a new car, even if you didn't drive it, and that would just about be in the first year, never mind two. Think about how the value of even that '14 will drop with the mileage you are putting on it. Since it is two years old it should have depreciated about 25-30%. After five years it's value would be about 50%, with "normal" mileage.

When enough people have gotten the fix done and we have solid feedback on what it does to the cars you will be able to make an educated decision on fixing it or selling it back. And who knows, maybe 2018 will bring diesels back again.

Oh, and I would see about refinancing the loan, if possible, to lower the rate.
I refinanced a year ago through my credit union at 2.9%. All is good now but the first year and a half I basically just paid interest. I'm on board for waiting because I love the car, but will a new diesel be offered before I need major maintenances like the timing belt? I also have funky DSG quirks that of course could not be replicated by the dealer so I worry about a failure there. (Yes, I'm OCD, like any other TDI owner). Loving the feedback though. Much appreciated.
 

Locoelectrician

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Location
Ohio
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Golf SEL Sportwagen, 2005 Jetta TDI, John Deere 355D
getmore---if he can swing a few months of double payments he can come out way ahead with a 2my newer car that has 60k less miles that is still eligible for the fix money and may qualify for some for some of the restitution money, if I understand correctly, AND HE GETS OUT FROM UNDER THE NEGATIVE EQUITY!!!
One MY newer. Mine is a 13 and the car I'm looking at is a 14.
 

GyroRon

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2014
Location
Fort Mill SC
TDI
2013 Jetta tdi
getmore---if he can swing a few months of double payments he can come out way ahead with a 2my newer car that has 60k less miles that is still eligible for the fix money and may qualify for some for some of the restitution money, if I understand correctly, AND HE GETS OUT FROM UNDER THE NEGATIVE EQUITY!!!

I second what this guy said.... best advise your gonna get
 

GyroRon

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2014
Location
Fort Mill SC
TDI
2013 Jetta tdi
only other thing to add into the mix, is the possibility of selling back the car, paying off the loan, and taking the cash left over and finding a cheaper car ( NON TDI ) that has a good chunk of its depreciation already gone. As in a 2006-2008 Accord or Camry or corolla etc.... with semi low miles. You can get a decent car with decent miles in that year range for well under 10 grand. With what you have to pay down from the cash left over, you can have a very small payment and the car won't lose much value further. Drive it for two years and sell it for most of what you paid for it, and go get another. Before you know it, you will not even have payments on a car anymore.
 

Locoelectrician

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Location
Ohio
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Golf SEL Sportwagen, 2005 Jetta TDI, John Deere 355D
I second what this guy said.... best advise your gonna get
Pardon my ignorance, and I've followed this quite closely, but could I potentially receive any benefits from buying the 14 at this point? I can afford to pay for both and park my 13.
 

Locoelectrician

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Location
Ohio
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Golf SEL Sportwagen, 2005 Jetta TDI, John Deere 355D
only other thing to add into the mix, is the possibility of selling back the car, paying off the loan, and taking the cash left over and finding a cheaper car ( NON TDI ) that has a good chunk of its depreciation already gone. As in a 2006-2008 Accord or Camry or corolla etc.... with semi low miles. You can get a decent car with decent miles in that year range for well under 10 grand. With what you have to pay down from the cash left over, you can have a very small payment and the car won't lose much value further. Drive it for two years and sell it for most of what you paid for it, and go get another. Before you know it, you will not even have payments on a car anymore.
I'm completely on board with this with the exception of the facts that nothing else out there gets the mileage of my car, and the fact that I frequently pull a trailer to auctions and Lowe's and bla bla bla. The only replacement that makes sense would be a truck that gets 20mpg. I looked at new Acura's and CPO BMWs but without a trailer option, I'm sunk.
 

bubbagumpshrimp

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Location
Virginia
TDI
'13 Jetta TDI
Financially Sound Options:

1. Keep your car, take the fix money, and drive the wheels off it.

2. Take the buyback, move on, and get something else.

Don't go d*****g around thinking that trading up to a car that's one model year newer is going to improve your life.
 

rbreding

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Location
Oklahoma City
TDI
2015 JSEL (buyback) 2015 PSEL (buyback) 2016 328d (keeper)
Pardon my ignorance, and I've followed this quite closely, but could I potentially receive any benefits from buying the 14 at this point? I can afford to pay for both and park my 13.

Thats the way its looking. 50% restitution on purchases post 6/28. We purchased a used 15 sel passat with 6k miles on it for 25k. Should get about 4k of the pot of gold back on it. Parked the 15 jetta for buyback.
 

2015golfwagon

Veteran Member
Joined
May 2, 2016
Location
Florida
TDI
Golf Wagon
Why not just sell it back to VW and get one of those new Passats with the 280 HP V6 motor, that will add a little excitement to your life.
 

yamaguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2011
Location
Chicagoland
TDI
2012 Passat SE 6man TDI, 2014 F-350 PSD, 2003 F-350 7.3 PSD, John Deere 2032R, Cub Cadet 882
With the miles you have on your car now, plus being so far underwater it does not make sense to keep it IMO. Buy a used one now, but NOT from a VW dealer!!!! This way you will probably be entitled for at least some of the "fix it" restitution money. Look on cars.com and auto trader for used models NOT at a VW dealer.
 

bizzle

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Location
Southern California
TDI
2015 GSW SEL (totaled), 2013 Touareg Executive
getmore---if he can swing a few months of double payments he can come out way ahead with a 2my newer car that has 60k less miles that is still eligible for the fix money and may qualify for some for some of the restitution money, if I understand correctly, AND HE GETS OUT FROM UNDER THE NEGATIVE EQUITY!!!
That's exactly how I'm reading the situation. I don't think there should even be a question of what to do. Dump the negative equity, grab the newer car, an even better deal might come along and he'd be in an even better situation regardless.
 

autdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Location
Alabama
TDI
2000 NB, 2003 NB, 2006 Touareg, 2015 Jetta, 2013 Beetle, 2013 Touareg
Pardon my ignorance, and I've followed this quite closely, but could I potentially receive any benefits from buying the 14 at this point? I can afford to pay for both and park my 13.
The only relatively safe play is a 2015. 2014 is still either a gen 1 or gen 2, both of which don't make it to the 0.05 NOx standard, and are the more likely to have the fix denied, leaving only a buyback as the way to take advantage of the situation. The 2015, based on CARBs graph is awful close to 0.05 limit without doing anything. The changes from the proposal list in the consent decree are rather small, and you are pretty sure that it will be approved. If the fix puts it under 0.05, CARB isn't relaxing the standard, the car meets the standard, what is the basis for denial then.
 

dgoodhue

Veteran Member
Joined
May 3, 2014
Location
Framingham, MA
TDI
'14 6MT JSW
To me it makes financial sense to have VW buy your car back. I know with my wife car. If I don't take the buyback it is going to drop 50% of it value in late 2018 once buyback period is over.

Personally I would not buy another car right now though. You going to be paying to the depreciation of another car that you really do not need for another 4 + months. You have some luxury of time with minimal penalty for miles and no additional depreciation.
 

Locoelectrician

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Location
Ohio
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Golf SEL Sportwagen, 2005 Jetta TDI, John Deere 355D
The only relatively safe play is a 2015. 2014 is still either a gen 1 or gen 2, both of which don't make it to the 0.05 NOx standard, and are the more likely to have the fix denied, leaving only a buyback as the way to take advantage of the situation. The 2015, based on CARBs graph is awful close to 0.05 limit without doing anything. The changes from the proposal list in the consent decree are rather small, and you are pretty sure that it will be approved. If the fix puts it under 0.05, CARB isn't relaxing the standard, the car meets the standard, what is the basis for denial then.
I would like a 15, but i see no way to buy one right now.
 

Locoelectrician

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Location
Ohio
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Golf SEL Sportwagen, 2005 Jetta TDI, John Deere 355D
To me it makes financial sense to have VW buy your car back. I know with my wife car. If I don't take the buyback it is going to drop 50% of it value in late 2018 once buyback period is over.

Personally I would not buy another car right now though. You going to be paying to the depreciation of another car that you really do not need for another 4 + months. You have some luxury of time with minimal penalty for miles and no additional depreciation.
Agree about depreciation, which is why im looking at a 14 that has already depreciated 15K.
 

autdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Location
Alabama
TDI
2000 NB, 2003 NB, 2006 Touareg, 2015 Jetta, 2013 Beetle, 2013 Touareg
I would like a 15, but i see no way to buy one right now.
Don't know where in OH you are, but there are 3 Passat SEL premium models in the 23-26k range on a search within 300 miles of Columbus. That's basically the ballpark you are talking about, and they have 15-40k miles on them. If you are willing to drive to pick it up, there are options out there in a 15 model. It's not 19k, but you get at least 50% of the owner cash, which you were clear of the old loan based on the current trade in, so one of these would put you in about the same car, at about the same price point once figuring in the owner cash for a more or less guaranteed fix.

Going with the 14, you can't be sure the fix will come, so even though you got it, you may have to sell it too to get the owner cash if no fix ever comes along.
 

GyroRon

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2014
Location
Fort Mill SC
TDI
2013 Jetta tdi
I'm completely on board with this with the exception of the facts that nothing else out there gets the mileage of my car, and the fact that I frequently pull a trailer to auctions and Lowe's and bla bla bla. The only replacement that makes sense would be a truck that gets 20mpg. I looked at new Acura's and CPO BMWs but without a trailer option, I'm sunk.

How much does your trailer loaded weigh?

You might be surprised to know that VW only has a 1500 pound max tow rating for the passat, and towing is forbidden in the jetta.

I have used my cars for towing for years.... Towing trailers with one or two motorcycles, or jet skis, even at times a 6x12 with commercial lawnmowers and equipment on them. Have had a Toyota Echo, Camry, Corolla, all with hitches and used them all to tow. If your fully loaded trailer weight is at or under 1500 pounds I would not hesitate to consider any gas powered car out there pending it has a 1.8 liter or larger engine.

You will not get the fuel economy of the TDI.... But you can still get good MPG compared to a truck or larger SUV. I drove a corolla for 2 plus years and put a good 40 thousand miles on it, with the majority of that towing. Could still get 30 mpg towing my motorcycle no problem.
 

GyroRon

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2014
Location
Fort Mill SC
TDI
2013 Jetta tdi
And before you rule out gassers because of MPG... Think of the bigger picture.

Diesel fuel costs more.

Oil changes cost more

VW TDI has a expensive timing belt service where most newer gas engines have a timing chain that doesn't need servicing

TDI has expensive DSG services which most gassers don't require

TDI has potential failure areas with the fuel system, HPFI, and turbo. Any issues with these parts are insanely expensive.... Most gas engines out there today are relatively bulletproof and don't have the potential expenses a TDI repair can cost.

So yes you can get great MPG with a TDI, but long term the cost of ownership isn't always as good as it seems when you factor in the expensive servicing costs and especially if there is any kind of expensive repairs needed.
 

Locoelectrician

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Location
Ohio
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Golf SEL Sportwagen, 2005 Jetta TDI, John Deere 355D
And before you rule out gassers because of MPG... Think of the bigger picture.

Diesel fuel costs more.

Oil changes cost more

VW TDI has a expensive timing belt service where most newer gas engines have a timing chain that doesn't need servicing

TDI has expensive DSG services which most gassers don't require

TDI has potential failure areas with the fuel system, HPFI, and turbo. Any issues with these parts are insanely expensive.... Most gas engines out there today are relatively bulletproof and don't have the potential expenses a TDI repair can cost.

So yes you can get great MPG with a TDI, but long term the cost of ownership isn't always as good as it seems when you factor in the expensive servicing costs and especially if there is any kind of expensive repairs needed.
All fantastic points, with zero argument from me. The main personal reason for loving this cars MPG is filling up once a week. In every gasser i've owned, it was fill up on sunday and then again on thursday. This car goes sunday to sunday no problem.
 

bubbagumpshrimp

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Location
Virginia
TDI
'13 Jetta TDI
Go drive a new Accord EX-L. It's every bit as nice as a Passat...and then some. Sure, the fuel economy isn't quite as good, but that's going to be balanced off by the decreased cost of regular unleaded fuel and the less expensive maintenance costs.

People bag on Accords and Camry's here, but there's a reason that they're so popular. They're reliable/good cars. You can get one a couple years old with ~20k miles for less than the cost of that '14 TDI and you'd probably be better off in the long run (cost of ownership wise).
 

Locoelectrician

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Location
Ohio
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Golf SEL Sportwagen, 2005 Jetta TDI, John Deere 355D
Go drive a new Accord EX-L. It's every bit as nice as a Passat...and then some. Sure, the fuel economy isn't quite as good, but that's going to be balanced off by the decreased cost of regular unleaded fuel and the less expensive maintenance costs.

People bag on Accords and Camry's here, but there's a reason that they're so popular. They're reliable/good cars. You can get one a couple years old with ~20k miles for less than the cost of that '14 TDI and you'd probably be better off in the long run (cost of ownership wise).
Looked at both the accord and acura TLX. They are at the top of the list if I do not go diesel. Possibly thinking of buying one at a good price and then picking up a 5 thousand dollar truck for whenever.
 
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