Opinion: Settlement 101 Q&A

r11

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0. If you have patience, read this 28 page document, Case 3:15-md-02672-CRB Document 1606-3 Filed 06/28/16 : https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/e...nt Agreement/Exhibit 3 - Long Form Notice.pdf

1. Options: go for buyback by Sept 1 2018 or wait for fix (aka modification) which may never come (but we shall know by May 1 2018 so we can go with buyback by Sept 1 2018 or be on our own).

2. Timing: buyback likely to start some time in fall. They'd have designated settlement specialist at each dealership handling it. After you register, they'd have 90 days to get you in. 3 day EFT (direct deposit) or check on the spot. Dont take no Einstein to realize it is going to be mayhem. You will have till Sept 2018 to register for buyback.

3. Buyback amount: there are tables showing how much you'd get based on year/model. It is based on pre-scandal "NADA clean trade-in" value - NOT a private sale. Then, on top of that, they add some additional money (NADA value x 1.2 + $3900) , resulting in amounts from 5K to 10K and the TOTAL amt is WHAT IS LISTED IN THE TABLE. You'd need to adjust it for mileage (which is crazy !), using different table. Consensus seems to be that we're being heavily penalized for mileage.

4. Fix/mod: none yet submitted/approved. Approval will require actual on-road testing. EPA gave in and allowed higher NOX numbers for fixed cars. There wont be any money given to owners till AFTER the fix. We wont know if a fix has been approved till possibly until May 1 2018. If no emissions modification is approved for your Eligible Vehicle by May 1, 2018, then you will have an opportunity to choose a Buyback by Sept 1 2018 or you may withdraw from the Class Action Settlement, aka be on your own. Your state might decline registration after that, gray area.

5. What happens if there's no fix ever. VW will get penalized U$50K for each car it cant get fixed or take off the road. One can argue that's when we'd have very nice leverage for better compensation, but taking this route will require cahones of brass. You'd call them and say you're reasonable and only want 1/2 of the penalty they'd incur otherwise for your 9YO car :)

6. What happens when there is an approved fix ? You'd bring your car in, they'd fix it and you'd get your money, around $5K, after the fix is applied. You will get 48K/4Y additional wty for the components that could conceivably be affected by the fix. There's also a "lemon" provision for the fix. This seems to be fair. Impact on HP, torque and MPG is not yet known but will be explained to us. Consensus seems to be there wont be a fix for Gen1. Assuming fix is possible, Gen3 should be the easiest to fix. There's lemon law protection for the fix - if it causes issues they cant fix, you're then entitled to buyback.




7. What should I do in the interim ? Speak up as soon they open the public commenting period ! Demand private party sale value and no adjustment for mileage. We bought these for longer commutes and being penalized for it is not fair. We are not selling these cars, they are being taken away from us. 99% chance they will all simply get crushed. So mileage should not be a factor. Demand higher amt to be allocated to owners. As it stands now, 10B is for us and 5B is for govt.



8. As thousands and thousands of ppl schedule returns at the dealerships, VW is likely to offer very very significant incentives to keep us as customers. Few Ks off MSRP is likely. They might consider the payback amt as "trade-in" . Meaning in some states you wont have to pay sales tax on that amt, good for another 2K or so. The document in #0 states:
"Volkswagen through its authorized dealers may offer you incentives and trade-in options in addition
to the benefits provided by this Class Action Settlement"


9. Fate of VW TDI. Not yet known. We dont know if they lifted the hold on newer cars. We dont know if EA288, latest US-market TDI engine from VW, could test as US-compliant in actual road test . Or even Euro-6 compliant when on the road.

9.1 Fate of VW. They are north of U$220B (!) in yearly rev. US sales are measly 5%. So this is nothing. Germany, as country, will stand behind them, so they are not going anywhere.

10. Fate of small diesel engine in US. EPA might still go after other vendors - BMW, MB. Heck, Uncle Sam has just collected 5B from a German Co, why not try for more ? If these test as non-compliant in actual road testing, similar saga might unfold for these brands as well.

11. Can I still drive it ? Heck yeah. And as long as you drive 1K miles/month or less, your payback amt wont change for at least next 2 years. Some folx are afraid of getting into "totalling" accident, but they should not be, as they are covered (from the document in #0):
If you owned an Eligible Vehicle that was functioning and operable as of September 18, 2015, but was
subsequently totaled (and the title was transferred to an insurance company), you will be eligible for
benefits under the Class Action Settlement as described in this notice at Question 19. There is one
exception: if your car is totaled after June 28, 2016, but before the opt-out date (September 16, 2016), you
are excluded from the settlement class and reserve your rights and claims against the Volkswagen entities.


12. How to object

If you do not exclude yourself from the Class Action Settlement, you may object to it. The Court will consider your views. To comment on or to object to the Class Action Settlement, you or your attorney must submit your written objection to the Court, including the following:

• Your name, address, and telephone number;
• A statement saying that you object to the Class Action Settlement in In re: Volkswagen
“Clean Diesel” Marketing, Sales Practices, and Products Liability Litigation, No. 3:15-
md-2672 (N.D. Cal.);
• The reasons you object to the Class Action Settlement, along with any supporting
materials;
• The VIN of your Eligible Vehicle and the dates you owned or leased the Eligible
Vehicle; and
• Your signature and date.
In addition, if you intend to appear at the final approval hearing (the “Fairness Hearing”), you must
submit a written notice of your intent (see Question 56 below).

You must mail your objection to the three addresses mentioned in the PDF in #0

Or in person:

The Court will hold the Fairness Hearing at XX:00 x.m. on Month 00, 0000, at the United States District Court for the Northern District of California, located at the United States Courthouse, 450 Golden Gate Avenue, San Francisco, CA 94102, before determining whether to approve the Class Action Settlement.

The hearing may be moved to a different date or time without additional notice, so it is a good idea to check www.VWCourtSettlement.com or call 1-844-98-CLAIM. At this hearing, the Court will hear evidence about whether the Class Action Settlement is fair, reasonable, and adequate.

If there are objections, the Court will consider them and may listen to people who have asked to speak at the hearing. After the hearing, the Court will decide whether to approve the Class Action Settlement. We do not know how long these decisions will take.

101. Sh1ts & giggles.

Govt gets 5B from VW. They mentioned some of it will "go to tribes". Funny.

Funny verbiage about Gen3 fix, indicating they already have pretty good idea of what it will take to fix that one:

"The parties anticipate that the generation 3 vehicles will require a two-dealer-visit modification
process. Two-thirds (2/3) of the cash payment will be paid upon the first visit to the dealer, and one-third
(1/3) of the cash payment will be paid upon the second visit to the dealer. A free oil change with
respective engine oil filter will also be provided on the second visit to the dealer. "
 
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740GLE

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just because you have sticky in your title doesn't make it so
 

Mark SF

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I think a sticky should meet certain standards of accuracy, which your post doesn't. Meet, that is.
 

r11

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The coveted sticky status is not official, it is self-proclaimed. We're in the fog of so much uncertainty that I did best I could. "101" is never in depth, just an intro to complex subjects. Not a treatise by any stretch. Not peer-reviewed
 

CraziFuzzy

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Probably should have just posted a link to the Court Authorized Notice document that answers all of these questions and more. At least it isn't a list of assumptions and personal opinions.
 

r11

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linked to the court Q&A
 

STLTDI

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0. If you have patience, read this 28 page document, Case 3:15-md-02672-CRB Document 1606-3 Filed 06/28/16 : https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/e...nt Agreement/Exhibit 3 - Long Form Notice.pdf
7. What should I do in the interim ? Speak up as soon they open the public commenting period ! Demand private party sale value and no adjustment for mileage. We bought these for longer commutes and being penalized for it is not fair. We are not selling these cars, they are being taken away from us. 99% chance they will all simply get crushed. So mileage should not be a factor. Demand higher amt to be allocated to owners. As it stands now, 10B is for us and 5B is for govt.
Sorry, but I disagree with that completely. If someone has 75,000 miles on their 2013 and I have 26,000, my car should absolutely be worth more. I would be livid if they got the same buyback amount.
 

turboBear

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Sorry, but I disagree with that completely. If someone has 75,000 miles on their 2013 and I have 26,000, my car should absolutely be worth more. I would be livid if they got the same buyback amount.
That's why there is a mileage adjustment in the buy-back math. If you have very low mileage you get a upward kick, they get a downward kick.
 

CraziFuzzy

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That's why there is a mileage adjustment in the buy-back math. If you have very low mileage you get a upward kick, they get a downward kick.
He was responding to the OP's opinion that they needed to get RID of the mileage adjustment.
 

BuyMeBackSoon

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I've got low miles, why should I care if someone with high miles gets similar money? I'm of the opinion everyone who was defrauded should get repaid all the money they paid for the car. I'm almost at that point, so no big complaint here. If you bought a 25000 msrp car but paid $15000, then $15000 is what you should get. Then they should have to pay us a fraud penalty so companies are not tempted to do this again.

This won't happen because it isn't an open and transparent process!
 

CraziFuzzy

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I've got low miles, why should I care if someone with high miles gets similar money? I'm of the opinion everyone who was defrauded should get repaid all the money they paid for the car. I'm almost at that point, so no big complaint here. If you bought a 25000 msrp car but paid $15000, then $15000 is what you should get. Then they should have to pay us a fraud penalty so companies are not tempted to do this again.

This won't happen because it isn't an open and transparent process!
I would be horribly upset if our court system felt that it is reasonable for VW to have to purchase me a brand new 2016 car to replace my 2009 car that I drove for 130,000 miles. If you are in a your-fault accident and total someone's 1984 civic, do you want to be on the hook to buy them a new 2016 civic? That's the precedence you are trying to set.
 

faultymechanics

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Sorry, but I disagree with that completely. If someone has 75,000 miles on their 2013 and I have 26,000, my car should absolutely be worth more. I would be livid if they got the same buyback amount.

People need to get over each other. Quit worrying about what your neighbor gets compared to you. If nobody gets charged mileage then its fair. You planned on not driving your vehicle a lot for its life....I did, so I should get penalized because of my lifestyle choice, uhhhh no.
 

crazyrunner33

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I've been seeing conflicting wording in the settlement.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/file/871306/download

10. Settling Defendants shall remove from commerce in the United States and/or perform an Approved Emissions Modification (as described in Section IV.B) on at least 85% of the 2.0 Liter Subject Vehicles as set forth in Appendix A. Settling Defendants must offer each and every Eligible Owner and Eligible Lessee of an Eligible Vehicle the option of the Buyback of the Eligible Vehicle at a price no less than Retail Replacement Value, or the Lease Termination in accordance with the terms specified in Appendix A.
Retail value and clean trade value are not the same thing.

0. If you have patience, read this 28 page document, Case 3:15-md-02672-CRB Document 1606-3 Filed 06/28/16 : https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/e...nt Agreement/Exhibit 3 - Long Form Notice.pdf


3. Buyback amount: there are tables showing how much you'd get based on year/model. It is based on pre-scandal "NADA clean trade-in" value - NOT a private sale. Then, on top of that, they add some additional money (NADA value x 1.2 + $3900) , resulting in amounts from 5K to 10K and the TOTAL amt is WHAT IS LISTED IN THE TABLE. You'd need to adjust it for mileage (which is crazy !), using different table. Consensus seems to be that we're being heavily penalized for mileage.
 

JohnQ

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I cant see #11 being plausible.. how could they accept that your insurance will cut you a check AND they will give you cash.. they would have a buttload of people crashing their cars on purpose after sep 2016
 

FVWVWF

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People need to get over each other. Quit worrying about what your neighbor gets compared to you. If nobody gets charged mileage then its fair. You planned on not driving your vehicle a lot for its life....I did, so I should get penalized because of my lifestyle choice, uhhhh no.
Penalized? lol....
Man...I need a drink reading this thread.
 

faultymechanics

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Penalized? lol....
Man...I need a drink reading this thread.

Penalized like as in Mileage accounted for. If I was going to drive my car til it needed to be scrapped I definitely wouldn't need to consider my mileage depreciation. It wouldn't matter.

Also I bought a manual fully loaded with plans of making extra cash back for a sought after car which I knew doesn't depreciate poorly (due to miles) within the community either.

I would have gotten much more value from my personal private sale then VW is offering.

Everyone is in a different position really.
 

JohnQ

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I would be extremely weary of taking what VW says as gospel... even now there are contradicting documents. Until something is finalized we should expect anything to change.
 

VtdiW

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Sorry, but I disagree with that completely. If someone has 75,000 miles on their 2013 and I have 26,000, my car should absolutely be worth more. I would be livid if they got the same buyback amount.
If the book value of the car is locked into the Sept 2015 date, the mileage you had on the car in that same month should be locked in too.

Otherwise, it is in VW's best interest to prolong this payout for as long as possible because the amount paid out will drop as time goes by.

The mileage amount that they allow per month is way to low. These cars were pitched that they could be driven with high mileage & long term durability.


The upper management of VW new about this long before Sept 2015. The date they found out about this & covered it up should be the settlement date.
 

r11

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Herr Fintakorn ?
Javol !
Zere mite be ze smol issue !
Scheisse ! Nein, nein ! Nein !
 

STLTDI

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People need to get over each other. Quit worrying about what your neighbor gets compared to you. If nobody gets charged mileage then its fair. You planned on not driving your vehicle a lot for its life....I did, so I should get penalized because of my lifestyle choice, uhhhh no.
I think that only benefits people in your exact situation. I don't agree with the mileage number, (1042 per month is way too low) but I do think there should be one. Lower mileage cars always have higher resale.
 

r11

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I think that only benefits people in your exact situation. I don't agree with the mileage number, (1042 per month is way too low) but I do think there should be one. Lower mileage cars always have higher resale.
'cept we aint selling these to some1 who'd keep driving them. These are being taken away from us the owners, so the punitive $5K, which is nullified by higher-mileage adjustment, is a woefully inadequate compensation.
 
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STLTDI

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'cept we aint selling these to some1 who'd keep driving them. These are being taken away from us the owners, so the punitive $5K is a woefully inadequate compensation.
Okay, so everyone should get the exact same no matter how many miles on the car? Just trying to confirm. You're saying that if someone has a 2012 Golf with 36,000 miles and someone has a 2012 Golf with 108,000 miles, they should both get the exact same payout? That's ludicrous to me.
 

r11

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What is totally lost in the minds of VW & friends @ US Govt, is that 99.9% will still need a car, after we get the buyback check !


If we were selling, seller with 108K miles would have gotten less and that would be fair.

But, if he/she doesnt want to sell and expects to drive the car for another 10 years and 500K miles, force-taking the car away from the owner at "NADA fair value", plus extra stipend that gets nullified by the high mileage, is not fair. What kind of punishment is there for VW in this case ? NONE !

Not only that, the owner will have to either go through horror of buying a used car using the "NADA fair value" trade-in $$$ - which CAN NOT BE DONE, as it is the trade-in, not the sale price for a used car.

Or use the money to buy a much much more expensive new car, with loan and stuff - which we seller didnt expect having to do for another 10 years.

Why are being punished here ? How about VW puts another 2-3B into the deal and we all get fair compensations and VW gets proper punishment.

By giving 5B to the Govt, VW has managed to get them on their side, not ours !
 
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iowaparrish

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I might remind any and all that settlements are settlements, but court is court. Settlements balance what is rightly owed in damages against risk - risk that the claim loses in court, risk of incurring legal fees, etc. If the settlement sucks for your situation, engage an attorney or file pro se. But please balance that risk that making the "material fraud" or "inducement" claims may not be as easy as they seem despite the admission of VW executives. Our court system is what it is and it currently insulates and protects the well protected and well financed. And unless you truly bleed green and think the cheating has created an existential problem for humanity, this deal is most likely a windfall for most everyone - I get a car to drive for four years that I paid $26k for and will most likely receive a $29k+ buyback (low miles on a 2014 JSW).

NOW - crushing the cars that can't be fixed is a flipping travesty though, consider signing this white house petition
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/tdis-clunkers-make-vw-trade-out-fuel-efficient-tdis-cannot-be-fixed-worse-polluting-clunkers


It seeks to revive the TDI for Clunkers program for unremediated TDIs. Otherwise consider commenting during the consumer input phase on the ludicrous environmentally unfriendly crushing terms presently embedded in the settlement.
 

r11

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Well, Govt has bent the VW over here and won the ez case and ton of money for the govt. They have VW's corporate jefes in a pickle with separate criminal charges etc.

Get another bil or 2 in comp money to those that left holding the bag - us, the owners !

In my case, '12 with 80K miles, I will be at 15K after mileage adjustment. Friggin '12 Camry or '12 Accord cost about that much - from a private party. So I am forced to go shopping, with nothing to show for it, through no fault of my own, for a greatly inferior car ? It is nice VW is made to send $$$ to "tribes" as EPA gloated, what about actual owners that are getting shafted here ?

And to add to it all, I specifically bought TDI as I knew I will be putting about 20K miles on it per year. Add extended wty - which I wont get a penny of compensation for .
 

Analogeezer

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So still trying to understand this mileage and Fall of 2015 thing.

My car had 40k on it back then so right at the "0" mark for mileage adjustment.

But the settlement fixes the mileage based value as of September of 2015, correct?

So if you keep driving the car waiting on the fix, the fix does not happen they are not going to say "well now you have 80,000 miles so it is worth less money", right? You get paid the value as of Sept. 2015 and the mileage the car had back then?

I mean if VW offered the fix this Fall and was ready that is one thing but we all know it's one or two years out and likely not to happen.

So if you like the car the prudent thing seems to be to wait, unless you just want a newer car or have mileage concerns in terms of reliability or service...e.g. if you are 4,000 miles from a timing belt replacement, you opt for the buyback.

Analogeezer
 

r11

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they effectively allow us to drive at about 1K/month and as long as we do that, our mileage adjustment is frozen at the mileage we had in Sept '15.

Of course, lots of us bought these precisely because we drive more than that and getting 50 mpg cars would save us money. Lots of folx are in 20K/Y camp and plenty put on way more miles than that.
 

GoFaster

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If you routinely drive more than 1,040 miles per month, the excess mileage is only costing you +/- 5 cents per mile.

That's dirt cheap for any modern car. Don't sweat it.
 

Diesl

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Unless you don't want to sell it back or get it 'fixed'. Because then you get exactly nothing. Nice settlement, eh?
 
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