Ongoing modifications to the Roadwarrior

valois

Banned
Joined
Jan 11, 2000
The only performance mods I have done to the car up to this point was the chip and a Viper intake. I do not feel the stock drivetrain is up to handling any more than that on the A4's . This week I got the Quaife limited slip differential , Autotech 11lbs. lightened flywheel and sachs power clutch and pressure plate in.
The overall affect is that the car feels lighter. It certainly revs much easier. No shuddering, binding or negative of any kind, at slower speeds I can hear a slight rotational sound, but with the windows closed at roadspeed there is no additional sound. I filled the tranny with no name brand 75w-90 gear lube specific to limited slip differentials.
I am sure it's non synthetic, I want to run with it for several hundred miles, then dump it for some redline 75W 90 synthetic, (note: not the MT90 or MTL)
I am going with redline because it's an ML4 and not an ML5. Now that the drivetrain can handle the power, I am starting the Turbo upgrade to a KO4-1 Watercooled turbo. It's larger than the KO3, but not excessive, good for around 30 KW, s more than a KO3, which is about 20 KW's over the VNT-15 in the car presently. From what I have seen in other applications the KO4 adds about 500 RPM of lag to spool up.
This is the main reason I went for the lightened flywheel, to reduce the affects of turbo lag with the new larger turbo. I am having the exhaust manifold, custom connection pipe and the turbo housing cermachromed with a heat treating process which all but eliminates reflected heat, and maintains heat in the system where it belongs.
I will be installing a set of .205 Injectors, along with a propane system. I plan on using a dawes device and running at 20 psi boost. I'll be using the coolant connections of the EGR cooler to cool the turbo instead. I'll post pictures when they become availible.
 

tdi rs

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2000
Location
England
TDI
mk2 16v tdi
Do you think the lightend flywheel makes the difference because its less weight to accelerate of because it makes the car lighter?Cos i machined a stock flywheel to 12lbs just so the car weighed less!!
 

MacGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 20, 1999
Location
VANCOUVER, BC, CANADA
Valois, good to see your posts again. Question: what ever happened wit UPsolute update for 0.205 injectors. Is it available yet?

Golf GLS Y2K, 5speed
UPsolute, 0.205's, PiperX etc.
 

valois

Banned
Joined
Jan 11, 2000
tdiRS, both. Although a reduction of 17lbs on vehicle weight is going to be negligible, every bit counts, please do not get me thinking in that direction, I'll be ripping the carpet out.

Thank you Macguy, I will check and see if we cannot do a model a week on the .205 upgrade. We have the file for the 98 NB now, I will work on the 2000 Jetta this week coming up.
 

tdi rs

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2000
Location
England
TDI
mk2 16v tdi
Well as you know thats the cheapest way of getting you car to go sh£t off a stick!!i lost 80kilos out of my car or the weight of an average person what a difference and the brakes are better an the handling o the list goes on!
 
4

4wheeldrift

Guest
Great to see you here Valois.

Can you elaborate a bit on the clutch/flywheel? How does the Sachs Powerclutch compare to stock in daily driving - feel, take-up, etc....
 

valois

Banned
Joined
Jan 11, 2000
4 wheeldrift, I always felt that the clutch on the A4 's that I drove was too heavy, this is in comparison to the A3 that I have. THe net affect of the Sach's power clutch and pressure plate is that the clutch activation seems much lighter and smoother to me now. Strange I was half expecting some shudder, or chattering, but I have felt neither, It is holding well. How much remains to be seen. I am looking to take the car to 200 HP and 300 ft/lbs of torque with the mods that are in the works. The Power clutch is rated above the VR6 OEM unit in holding power. I am pleased with the net affect of the changes, again the best way I can describe it is as if the car is much lighter now.
 

Sc0

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2000
Location
Houston, TX USA
TDI
'02 Golf GL 5sp Candy White Tan cloth interior
Are you going to decrease the compression ratio when running the larger turbo and additional boost? Will the turbo fit in place of the VNT without some rather major modifications?

I am also looking into UPsoluting with the .205 program on my '02 Golf A4 stick, and in about 3 years a .184 program for an '02 Jetta Wagon automatic.
 

valois

Banned
Joined
Jan 11, 2000
I am not going to decrease compression, at this boost level , (20 psi) there should be no problems. Boost pressure can be counter productive, I have seen the effeciency of this KO4 and I should not be excessivly heating the air charge. Also boost is not the end all of the equation, what you are looking for is air flow volume, at an effecient adbiatic temperature. BG has run as much as 30 psi of boost and blown a couple of KO3's in the interest of science.
It's a careful balance of EGT temperature, turbo effeciency, and fueling that will determine the overall longevity of the package. I am looking for and expect no more than 20 hp from the KO4 over a similar equipped KO3. WIth a base line of around 150 hp with the chip and .205 injectors, another 20 HP from the propane injection and perhaps 20 from the larger turbo, I am hoping for 190 to 200 HP and around 300 ft/lbs of torque. Which should be a mighty impressive package in the TDI, as a stop light to stop light urban street machine.
 

valois

Banned
Joined
Jan 11, 2000
Modifications to put a KO4 into a MKIV TDI requires removal of the EGR cooler, removal of the exhaust manifold, purchase of a early passat or 97 98 Jetta exhaust manifold, I have ported the exhaust side of the manifold for improved flow and made up a couple of adapter flanges, a pipe needs to be welded onto the flanges to interconnect the turbo to the manifold, a custom 3" downpipe to the CAT from the turbo. (2.5" would suffice I think, but I was able to obtain the 3" easier) and finally a little bit of plumbing to tie the oil lines to the turbo, and to make use of the EGR coolant lines to the turbo. Finally, a Dawes device set to requested boost in the ECU to control the pressure actuator on the wastegate. Not exactly a shoe horn fit, but I am hoping the finished package will be fun to drive.
 

Driv'n EZ

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2000
Location
Soot Belchin, USA
I'm glad to hear you're having fun with the road warrior. Kinda makes my last mod seem pale in comparison ... a 2002 cupholder!!!

Mz. Sue and I are in process of investigating possibilities for the CDI 2.7 Sprinter for our next vehicle. I'm not sure it will need any performance mods. It's QUICK for a van.
 

peter pyce

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2001
Valois, do you think mounting an intercooler on top of the turbo (WRX inspired) with modifying the hood for some ram, will make such a difference to justify the effort in doing it? So, pipes are shorter as well, and turbo lag will be less too ..... Thanks!
 

valois

Banned
Joined
Jan 11, 2000
I have no doubt that it would Peter, I have seen the results of a larger front mounted intercooler and lag. In my case if inlet temps are too high I will simply reduce the boost a little and be happy with what I have. The stock VW intercooler is pretty effecient, I have felt the affects of summer temps in reduced power and would probably go a less expensive route like intercooler misting if I did anything along those lines.
 

peter pyce

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2001
If I am not wrong, Oldman dynoed his car time ago and got something like 156 HP and 306 lb/ft. If all that is correct, I guess if you reach the 190-200 HP mark, your torque will be way more than your 300 lb/ft target........

I also read (some time ago) a nice post on vortex (maybe you know about it as well) where this guy put another intecooler like the stock one (on a 1.8T), and then they went for a drive, recording all the data at every speed ..... I remember this combo was showing efficiancy between 95 and 100% more than the stock setup during almost the whole test (at almost any rev range).... but of course, they had to deal with lag as well..... Do you really think your stock intercooler will be enough for the power you are targeting? I mean, don't you think and intercooler upgrade is absolutely necessary in case like yours? I am very curiouse on this. Thanks for the attention....

* edited to fix a mistake....

[ May 24, 2002, 17:18: Message edited by: peter pyce ]
 

valois

Banned
Joined
Jan 11, 2000
The intercoolers primary purpose is to remove heat, at 20 psi max boost on the KO4 I will not be producing more than the stock intercooler can handle, as you increase boost pressure you increase heat, the turbo compressor map will determine the relative effeciency of the Turbo at the specific boost pressure you are requesting from it. The adiabatic formula for determining this is: T2/T1=(P2/P1)(y*-1)/y this is simplified to: T2=T1 x (P2/P1)*0.286
T1 and P1 are absolute inlet temperature and pressure, T2 and P2 are outlet values.
In the example of inlet air temperature at 20 C and absolute temp of 293 K and inlet pressure is 1 bar absolute , then to boost to 20 psi or 1.38 bar ( absolute at 2.38 bar)
T2 = 293 x (2.38/1)*0.286 or, 293 x 1.2815 = 375.47 K or 82.47C temperature rise, this is assuming a 100 % effeciency of the compressor, or what I like to refer to as BOundless perpetual motion territory.
actual effeciency of the KO4 is at the upper edge of the 70% effecient region for this boost pressure. It has to be taken into account. So, 82.47C/0.7 = 117.81C Add the ambiant temperature to the mix, if it's 20 degrees C ambiant than the actual temperature at 20 psi coming out of the turbo will be 117.81 + 20C = 137.81C.
So the temperature of the charge air to the intercooler is 138C. Now it is trying to cool that back down to ambiant (20C) the stock intercooler is around 70% effecient so (138C-20C) x 0.7= 82.6 this is the drop in the intercooler it must be subtracted from actual temps entering, so that 138C-82.6C = 55.4 Degrees celcius to the cylinder at 20 psi, when it's 20C outside.
To determine if additional intercooling would be beneficial you need to know the amount of boost dropped through the intercooler you want to try. and determine if the increased density it offers justifies the change. you calculate this by determining the ratio of intercooler inlet to outlet absolute temperatures Multiplied by the ratio of intercooler outlet to inlet absolute pressures. THe intercooler our cars use is small, the boost drop will be negligble, adding a second intercooler ala TT style would probably more than double the pressure drop.
Now given this is a diesel, I do not have to worry about pre detonation of the mixture, nor do I need to wonder what is happening with the knock sensor, this alone makes additional intercooling something to look at in the Gasser, but with an air to air intercooler you will never be able to get the charge to even outside ambiant, and a 35 degreeC rise at 20 DegreesC is acceptible to me and I doubt I will have problems with it. THe Key factor on the diesel is to monitor EGT temperature. THis will be the major criteria of weather I feel I need additional intercooling or more than likely just reduce the boost a little and dial the fuel down to be within the range I am looking for. On level grades I can live with a maximum EGT of around 1200F If I see more, I will dial it down or take steps to improve cooling.
 

tongsli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Rene,

10 or 11 mm pump??? You didn't mention it so I'll assume 10mm.

What about using Diesel Geek's larger oil cooler?
Any plans for fuel cooling?

What about the turbo outlet? Does it(diameter) match the skinny lower intercooler pipe? Are you using a set of custom lower and upper intercooler pipes?

Lito
 

valois

Banned
Joined
Jan 11, 2000
good questions Lito, 10 mm pump, I sould have more than enough fueling with the propane and it's adjustable. I will be using an oldman type intake to the turbo. Outlet size looks the same, but I have not removed the lower intercooler to check and see if it's exact. If it's slightly larger I will simply do up an adapter for the time being. Would love to have a set of custom intercooler pipes, perhaps I can steal Garrett's the next time he visits.
 

tdi rs

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2000
Location
England
TDI
mk2 16v tdi
I'm using a sachs power clutch and can fully vouch for the lightness and grip of the clutch second gearstarts with plenty of boost and revs with no slip.
 

BoraTdi

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2000
Location
Raleigh, NC
Well I am happy to see the Roadwarrior taking shape. You've done more with it than I could have, that's for sure. Have you done a mufflerectomy yet? That's about 35 pounds in weight ya know.
 

valois

Banned
Joined
Jan 11, 2000
Not a bad idea Bora, it will be done. BTW, the reason for the car being titled the roadwarrior is it once belonged to Bora, he now has a Golf, He was sitting at a light minding his own business one evening when a full size van plowed into the back of his car totaling it. I purchased it from him and also purchased a rear clip from a local salvage yard that had been totaled on the front end. It was the same color, black, with identical interior. I had the car "clipped" I do not like to waste, and I hate to see a TDI die before it's time. The guy that clipped the car is an expert, you cannot tell it's been done. You can view the results here:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/NonCGI/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000106
So far, it has 16 Monte Carlo wheels that BoraTDI put on, I have added a Kamei grill, Grill craft lower grills, A viper intake, it's been chipped, I have added burl dash trim, tinted rear tail light, it's been debadged, Will had a Pipercross CCV filter on the Valve cover, and he had also done the Epsilonian device early in it's life. Omar and I changed the timing belt at 40,000 for Will and the car now has 50,000 miles on it. It's seen good additives and good oil for those miles. I'll also be adding Autometer sports comp boost and oil pressure guages.
 
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