Ongoing intermittent crank issue on my 2005 Passat.

[stefhelm]

That's on my to do list. It always happens when carpooling kids around or some time where it's just not ideal to dig in to it. I have not figured out how to make the issue happen on demand. Pulling temp sensor plug should trick ecu to thinking it's cold in the case of a slow starter but starter should be fast enough now. Regardless, I'd still like to pull sensor and see if there is a result.

 

[stefhelm]

Actually, what would be the downside of driving a few days with sensor unplugged? I assume I'll get code for engine not warming up after a bit, but am I hurting anything?

 

[Windex]

Not hurting per se, you would be tricking the ecu into delivering more fuel. Would probably throw a check engine light as well.

-40 at startup is plausible, -40 after several minutes of running is not

 

[stefhelm]

I can burn some fuel and stare at a light for a bit. If I went 3-4 days with no issues at all that would probably be indicative of something...

Going to try to find my voltage drop here too. Sort of weird. Hopet just some terminal cleaning.

*Actually got an improvement with cleaning both ends of the ground cable from the battery, and the positive terminal too. I'm at 14v at battery now. Still a bit of a drop there compared to alternator but better.

I am a little concerned on the whole starter rpm bit though. I for sure got more speed but maybe not as much as I expected. If the starter speed is still an issue (and pulling that temp sensor makes it start), then I'm not sure what I'd do next.

 

[stefhelm]

Alright, pulling temp sensor didn't help. Finally got it.

When I cleared the CEL from pulling the sensor, I was hasty. There was also 4 glow plug errors there. I'll post those if they come back.

 

[stefhelm]

Some codes I got. This was after a successful cold start. Not sure if there is any relationship to my hot start crank issue. I would expect the glow plugs are not up to much on a hot start, unless it is cause some start condition to not be met

OBDeleven data log

Date: 2021-11-29 12:36

VIN: WVWCE63B95E044815
Car: Volkswagen Passat
Year: 2005
Body type: Variant
Engine: BHW 100 kW (136 HP) 2.0 l
Mileage: 322470 KM

---------------------------------------------------------------
01 Engine

System description: R4 2,0L EDC G000SG
Software number: 038997016T
Software version: 0314
Hardware number: 0281011982
Serial number: VWZ7Z0D0138901
Coding: 0150031

Trouble codes:
P0674 - Cylinder 4 Glow Plug Circuit
static
P0672 - Cylinder 2 Glow Plug Circuit

P0671 - Cylinder 1 Glow Plug Circuit

P0673 - Cylinder 3 Glow Plug Circuit

 

[Windex]

I would clear the GP faults and see if they come back. You are correct, the GPs arent doing anything once the engine has warmed up.

 

[stefhelm]

Yeah, they come back. (Not always). I swapped out gp relay. Also checked resistance from relay to plug connector and plugs themselves and that seems fine. So weird, but also I don't think it's related. Unless this is all one big electronic gremlin.

 

[TurboABA]

Also noting the with a new starter, good battery, and jumper to my other new car just to be sure I can get power, the engine will crank at 230rpm. I'm not going to get more than that out of it.

I still think you're not spinning fast enough.... did you get the correct starter? I think there was a 1.1kW and a 1.8kW option or something!
If you have a gutless one or the wrong version, that would explain why you can't get "more" out of it.

 

[TurboABA]

068911024GX- bosch 1.8KW

07D911023A - bosch 2.0KW

But if you somehow ended up with a gasser one, they were only 1.1KW (which would explain the slow cranking)

 

[stefhelm]

I got a 068911024F. Can see here is says it supersedes the G and is good for a passat diesel. Uncertain on the power rating though. (I carried on with cleaning connections last night and cleaned up the block to chassis ground cable last night, just to be sure it was solid.)

From parts.vw.com:

Part Number: 068911024F
Supersession(s): 068-911-024-F; 068911024G; 68911024F
A device, power by electricity, pneumatic, or hydraulics, used to rotate / crank a vehicle's engine as to initiate the engine's operation under its own power. New.


Fits Beetle, Beetle Convertible, EuroVan, Golf, Jetta, Jetta Wagon, Passat, Passat Wagon

1.9 liter, new. 2.0 liter, new. Beetle; 1.9L Diesel; Auto Trans. Eurovan; All. Golf, GTI, R32; 1.9L TDI; Auto Trans. Jetta; 1.9L TDI; Auto Trans. Passat; Diesel.

068911024F - Starter Motor - Genuine Volkswagen Part

Genuine Volkswagen Part # 068911024F (068-911-024-F, 068911024G) - Starter Motor. Fits Beetle, Beetle Convertible, EuroVan, Golf, Jetta, Jetta Wagon, Passat, Passat Wagon

parts.vw.com

 

[TurboABA]

Find out what the output is.... maybe it's stamped on it, on the label, contact your seller, etc.
I still don't think you're meeting the cranking rpm requirements

 

[stefhelm]

You are not wrong. It is not rated the same, which is a little irritating.

The F model is this one, at 1.1kw:

Vehicle Starter Motors | Bosch Auto Parts

Bosch manufactures and supplies 100% New Starter motors for virtually every vehicle manufacturer and is the preferred engine starter by professional installers.

www.boschautoparts.com

The G model is this one, at 1.8kw:

Vehicle Starter Motors | Bosch Auto Parts

Bosch manufactures and supplies 100% New Starter motors for virtually every vehicle manufacturer and is the preferred engine starter by professional installers.

www.boschautoparts.com

 

[oilhammer]

There was only ever one starter for the BHW, since they were all automatic. ETKA shows 068-911-024-F and GX (the GX being the reman exchange). 1.8kw... Bosch typically puts the motor output directly on the case, stamped in the housing somewhere.

The Bosch reman number is SR0423X. Valeo has a new drop-in replacement available too (it looks different, obviously). Valeo's number is 438072.

 

[stefhelm]

"ETKA shows 068-911-024-F and GX"

Are you not seeing the F as a bosch SR0421X? My supplier is seeing the F model as a SR0421 and the G model as a SR0423.

So I was running with the F and the G as being compatible starters (which you say is true in ETKA), only what has happened in my case is the F came up as the Bosch SR0421 (which I am now learning is the 1.1kw model).

 

[TurboABA]

I don't know who's smoking what, but even if you use the Bosch filter that you linked above, it tells you that you need the stronger one.

Vehicle Starter Motors | Bosch Auto Parts

Bosch manufactures and supplies 100% New Starter motors for virtually every vehicle manufacturer and is the preferred engine starter by professional installers.

www.boschautoparts.com

SR0423

 

[stefhelm]

yeahh.. i got it. haha.

Oh well, that's fine. ****ty, but I'll get over it. It looks like an x-ref issue on my suppliers side. There is an incorrect correlation from VW part number to Bosch part number in whatever he is using to look things up.

When I put my car in to the Bosch website I have posted, for sure the SR0423 is the winner.

 

[oilhammer]

Either Bosch or ETKA has clearly made a mistake.

I've never run into this before, but BHW starters are not a high failure item either.

 

[stefhelm]

In this case, I was assuming the 068-911-024-F and GX were going to be equivalent and maybe didn't give enough attention to the Bosch equivalent part numbers. I assume both VW part numbers SHOULD point to the SR0423. Basically what happened is both VW numbers looked good but one was cheaper. I see now that is because the ETKA listing of 068-911-024-F pointed to the SR0421 starter.

 

[TurboABA]

At least you "saved" some money going with the cheaper one!

 

[stefhelm]

Looking at that with the Fry look in your avatar.... wait a minute...

 

[Mozambiquer]

I just looked up on my supplier, the Valeo version is $199 and is the 2kw version.

 

[stefhelm]

Interesting. The correct Valeo is a 2KW and the corrrect Bosch is 1.8kw.


VALEO 438072 Starter motor Starter Output: 2kW, Voltage: 12V, Teeth Quant.: 10

 

[oilhammer]

Because French KW is not as much as German KW.

 

[TurboABA]

I believe I've even seen 1.7KW versions.... get something with some balls so that you can get the required RPM to start that tractor!

 

[stefhelm]

Ballsy starter is on the way! Pain in the butt.

 

[stefhelm]

Alright, new, correct starter installed. Fingers crossed, again....

 

[stefhelm]

Well, a solid day of running around today and the car started fine every time. Wont call it fixed quite yet, but looking positive. Regardless, thanks for all the help and input. I was able to return the incorrect starter with no issue.

My next issue is going to be this glow plug error. I get a code on every plug, it seems. And a CEL.
I have checked and there is consistant low resistance at the plugs and also if i go from relay harness through plugs, it is still consistantly low and the same. I have not actually tested the relay, although it really is not all that old. I have a couple other relays i picked up from parts cars and have swapped it (not a real test, really) and seen no differnce. What comes before the relay? And could something before the relay cause all plugs to fault at once? I have not checked for voltage at the harness plugs when cycling plugs, but will try that this weekend yet.

 

[TurboABA]

Just for amusement purposes and education, why don't you check your cranking RPM now?

 

[stefhelm]

I'll get that done for sure. Would like the posted issue to have a meaningful resolution on here.