One oil to rule them all...e.g. keeping things simple

[ARCJr]

In an effort to make my life easier I'd like to cut down the oil I have to buy for my cars (in my signature below) to one single oil. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Now, the 1.8T is on the VW 502.00 spec. The 2.0T is on the 505.01 spec. The 1.9TDI is on the 505.00 spec. Now I believe I read that 505.01 is a more rigorous (or at least newer) spec than 505.00, such that a 505.01 rated oil also meets the 505.00 spec, correct? Thus, I could use an oil, such as the Pentosin Pentosynth HC 5w40, that meets both the 502.00 spec and the 505.01 spec in all three engines, right?

Now, I'm far more interested in the well-being of these three expensive engines than I am in simplicity or saving a buck a quart, so if I can't do it, then I can't do it, no worries. But, it would make life easier. Thanks in advance.

p.s. In a similar vein, are the oil filters compatible between the 1.8T & 1.9TDI? I wouldn't mind picking them up by the case...

 

[ruking]

They don't make it easy do they?

Untill my recent 09 TDI, I got it down to one vendor Mobil One. The viscosities are 5w20, 0w20, 5w30 0w30, 5w40. I got Total Quartz INEO 5w30, VW 507.00 for the 09 TDI, but when that runs out (18 qts) and the following 5w30 VW 507.00 or 5w40 MB 229.1, Mobil One products become more available, I will probably go back to (all) Mobil One.

 

[ARCJr]

I'd always used Mobil 1 0w40 in my A4 (except for last time when I couldn't find it and used Castrol 5w40). My wife's A4 is Audi's problem, not mine...for another 3k miles, at least . I used Rotella on the TDI when I did it, though the mechanic used an Elf oil when he did an oil change with the timing belt. So, just as long as I'm only buying ONE oil...

 

[TooSlick]

Yes, you want an SAE 5w-40 that meets the VW 502.00/505.01 specs, along with the more stringent Mercedes 229.51 spec.
The 2.0L, DI gas engines are prone to fuel dilution & intake valve deposits. So you want to look for something a bit thicker & with a low evaporation rate (Noack volatility). If you're out of warranty, I'd also consider a 5w-40 that meets the API, CJ-4/SM specs. These will tend to be significantly thicker than a VW spec oil....
TS

 

[andreigbs]

And about your oil filter question: you can use the same filter your '98 TDI uses in the A4 1.8T. There was a TSB about this a long time ago at Audi and they should be supplying the bigger (AHU/1Z TDI) filter. You can stock up on those, just make sure they're from a reputable brand NOT made in China.

 

[TooSlick]

One thing to add is that the 2001 Audi with the 1.8L engine is on the "sludger" list. Due to the small (3.7 qt), sump capacity, the location of the oil line going to the turbo and the longitudinal engine layout (which impacts cooling), oil breaks down very rapidly in this App. VW/Audi now recommends a service interval of 5000 miles/6 months in this engine, along with the oversized oil filter that increases the sump capacity by approx 1/2 qts.

Another oil you could run in all three motors is the 0w-30, Castrol Syntec European Formula. It meets the VW 502.00/505.00 specs and provides very good TDI performance. I like this oil more than the Mobil 1, 0w-40, as it's significantly more shear stable. There's also the Mobil 1/ESP, 5w-30, which meets the VW 504.00/507.00 spec and is backwards compatible to 502.00/505.00.

TS

 

[andreigbs]

TS, I had an A4 1.8T but it was the earlier AEB motors. I used M1 0w40 Euro Car Formula and never had oil issues. The oil temp would never exceed 225*F even in the summer driving 80 mph+ with the A/C on.

I could hear slight valve-tapping or cam-chain tensioner noise with the 0w40 though, especially right before shut-down. I wonder if there is anything to be gained by going to a Xw50 oil?

OP: if you use an oil that is labeled as 505.01, it's a safe bet that it also covers previous standards. With that taken care of, there are many 505.01 certified oils, 5w30 and 5w40. It's up to you which you prefer, depending on where you live, how cold/hot/humid/dusty it is where you live and so on.

If all those cars were parked in my garage, I'd most likely be using:
Motul Specific 505.01 full synth 5w40 stuff, link: http://www.worldimpex.com/parts/motul-motul-100-synthetic-oil-5-ltr-50501_555905.html

or

Pento HP2 505.01 5W40 stuff, link: http://tdiparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=28_127&products_id=492

 

[TooSlick]

Andrei,
The problem with running a 0w-40 in a multivalve turbo engine (particularly with chain driven cams), is that it will shear down rapidly. This is due to the significant # of polymeric thickener (VI modifier), that's required to formulate a wide range multigrade. Note that the SAE 5w-50 oils share this same characteristic.
Ideally for a gas engine turbo you'd like an oil with little or no polymer (these thermo-mechanically degraded polymers also tend to form engine deposits). So a narrow range, 5w-30/10w-30 that's thick enough to meet the ACEA A3/B3/B4 spec is going to be the most shear stable. The Group III based, 5w-40's that are popular in Europe will also shear down significantly after only 3k miles in most turbo apps.
By the way, I worked up in Lawrenceville one summer while attending grad school down at Ga. Tech. Of course that was thirty years back when Lawrenceville was out in the sticks. I'm sure I wouldn't recognize the place now.

 

[nortones2]

"The Group III based, 5w-40's that are popular in Europe will also shear down significantly after only 3k miles in most turbo apps." And the result is? Empirical evidence from Europe (the largest operator of PD engines by magnitudes) is that the PD if given its diet of VW Norm oil is a long term runner. Its not the carrier that matters especially, but the additive that it carries. There is nothing other than oil neurosis to make a claim that the 5w/40 oils are insufficient.

 

[Drivbiwire]

Mobil Delvac 1 ESP...

If you really want a true "One Size Fits All" in respect to VW.

I'm looking at the Sulfated ash to see how it stands up against the other approved LowSAPS formulas. It does seem to be a bit higher (1.0% vs .6%). I have to see what heavy duty trucks it has approvals for that have SCR systems (for use with the 2009 T-Reg, MB, Audi etc).

 

[velociT]

Mobil Delvac 1 ESP...

This.

 

[andreigbs]

Interesting points TS, I appreciate your input. I'll admit it IS hard to find an oil that is so flexible that it can be used in almost any engine AND expect it to protect the internals well. It seems the greatest protection and flexibility in one oil depends on its base properties, like whether it's a Grp III/IV/V. It'd be nice to have a list of common oils used by folks here and what their Grp. number is; there's already info available for the amount of additives and such.

As DBW says, maybe the Delvac ESP is the best choice for almost all applications, except for those that call for a 0w20 or 5w20 oil like some Chryslers and Fords.

Do you guys think Ford and Chrysler uses the oil mainly for a FE benefit and perhaps an emissions reason more so than for engine protection in the long run?

In the OP's case, and depending on how many miles and what the warranty requirements in effect are, I would use the best VW/Audi approved lube till the warranty is up, then get 3 gallons of M1 Delvac ESP every 10K miles from either a truckstop or a CAT/KW/Peterbilt dealership. Most of the T/A truckstops have it on the shelves, others not so much.

TS, Lawrenceville is quite sprawled out now and it covers about 2 zip codes. Not quite the country town it used to be, with all the new subdivision developments around.

 

[mtrevelyan]

Hi All,

In regards to the question above about the Ford engines using 5w-20 - I do have experience with the 2.0L Ford Zetec engine. Ford can use a 5w-20 in this engine because the internal pressures in an Overhead Cam engine are far less than those in a Push-rod engine. The point loading pressures in a push-rod engine on the Cam shaft are multiples of the point load pressures involved in an overhead cam engine which directly actuates the Valve opening and closing.

Ford uses a 5w-20 oil in this Zetec engine becuase they can without affecting its longevity. Ford also uses some coatings on internal components which allow for tighter tollerances. I know from experience that this engine is way over engineered, and can happily develop 80 percent higher hp than stock using stock internals other than a set of high lift cam shafts, and slightly stiffer valve springs to keep the spring coils from binding. But I digress, this is about our diesel engines, like my wife's 2009 TDi, which we both love. What a machine!

 

[TooSlick]

Nortones2,
I was specifically referring to VW/Audi, GAS engine turbos with that remark. Of these three applications, I'd consider the 2006 Audi DI gas engine to be the most challenging, followed by the 2001 Audi and then the older TDI.
The results I've seen for VW 502.00/505.01 oils (including Amsoil & Redline), in the newer VW/Audi, DI engines have been marginal at best. Folks are having to change oil every 5000 miles - even in the 4.2L, V-8, which has a large dump capacity. The key issue is that they're seeing 2%-3% fuel dilution in some cases; combine that with some thermo-mechanical shearing and you're quickly looking at a diluted 30wt oil.
I have been thinking for some time that a 5w-40/10w-40, synthetic HDEO - either CI-4+/SL or CJ-4/SM - might work better in these DI gas engine turbos than a VW Spec lube. I think that Delvac 1/ESP would outperform the M1/0w-40 here, and I think the CI-4+ rated, Amsoil 10w-40 would work better than
their 5w-40, Euro oil.
VW may have solved their wear related issues with the new TDI design, but their newest gas engines (except the 2.5L, five cylinder), have proven to be finicky.
TS

 

[nortones2]

Ah - my mistake. Thanks for the explanation BTW. Not heard about this re gas VWs before. Perhaps the dilution is due to sulphur content? In UK there were concerns about the catalyst being poisoned by sulphur where the fuel was not sulphur free. Effect is more frequent purging: inevitable crankcase dilution follows. Gas is now all sulphur-free or virtually (in theory!)