OMG! What is THIS??

[ErikFinn]

Ok, sorry about the clickbait, but seriously, anyone seen something like this before? What happened here? Wrong oil pan? Wrongly installed oil pan? Both? Neither?
Fotos showing a newly installed oilpan from a 2001 Golf TDI 90hp (ALH??) and what I believe is a plastic lower crankshaft oil seal, after it had its broken oil pan replaced, and oil, filter replaced, and ran for a minute. Done by a friend of mine so I don't have all the answers yet.

https://flic.kr/p/2jN7muN
https://flic.kr/p/2jN8asr
https://flic.kr/p/2jN8bNx
https://flic.kr/p/2jN8cJk

 

[300D]

Something went wrong between the oil pan, rear main seal(which you are holding), and the flywheel. There is also a metal flange tucked in there. Was there recent work? The pan doesn't have to come off for either flywheel/ clutch work, or rear main seal work. My guess is something got to the inside of the flywheel and then went to work on the oil pan and rear main seal. Either a foreign object, or a detached internal object.

 

[ErikFinn]

Car had a its broken oil pan replaced, and oil, filter replaced, and ran for a minute, and the oil pan was taken off as there was an abnormal momentary "squeek" when cranking the engine, similar to slipping fan belt, "but it wasn't the fan belt".

 

[BobnOH]

Had to replace my '99.5 oil pan 3 times. Easy peasy.
I can only guess you have the wrong or mifit (ebay?amazon?) pan or there was more damage than just the pan.
Could be a bit involved to replace that seal.

 

[zslnk]

Is the thrust bearing intact?

If you you can get this moved to the Mk4 - VE/PD forum you will get better guidance.

 

[Rrusse11]

Had to replace my '99.5 oil pan 3 times. Easy peasy.
I can only guess you have the wrong or mifit (ebay?amazon?) pan or there was more damage than just the pan.
Could be a bit involved to replace that seal.

Bob,
Have you bought yourself a skid plate yet?

 

[BobnOH]

Bob,
Have you bought yourself a skid plate yet?

Since the first incident, I would not have one of these cars without a metal plate underneath. The other oil pan jobs were chasing down low oil pressure.

 

[Rrusse11]

Ahhh, ok. Lol, your rep as a reasonable person has been restored. My apologies for thinking otherwise.

 

[Tdijarhead]

So what did happen here? You’re holding the lower part of the rear seal in your hand, so to replace that the transmission needs to come out, if there is actual clutch/flywheel damage that of course would be the time to fix it.

 

[ErikFinn]

Thats correct. I didn't know the crank seal is a one piece part until last night. I got myself a repair manual now and it helps a bit.
Apparently the person who installed the oil pan dropped a bolt/bolts into the bell housing. That would explain the two bolts found under the car after the engine ran a minute, and the few undersized oil pan bolts which were held in place by excess silicone only..
Are there any exploded views of the engine available anywhere? Or that would be dealer manuals only then?
Edit, foto added:

https://flic.kr/p/2jNGkNa

 

[Tdijarhead]

I think those are two oil pan bolts if the heads are 10 mm. You might check myturbodiesel.com for a pic of the back of the engine.

The rear seal is easy enough to install and not that expensive, however getting to it is an involved process.

 

[Tdijarhead]

Whoever did the install owes you a repair job, and no I wouldn’t let him anywhere near your car, ever again.

 

[ErikFinn]

Ok so I've now ordered some parts, including crankshaft seal for the tranny side, rod bearings&bolts, main bearings, oil level sensor, oil cooler. I'll still need at least assembly grease, sealant, oil filter, oil..

Question: should I renew something else now also "as I'm at it"?

Oil pump? Crankshaft front seal? Anyone can think of something that would be a good practice to replace now as well?
TY

 

[Tdijarhead]

It doesn’t look like any of that metal got into the oil, did it? If not all you need to do is replace the pan, rear seal and maybe the clutch since you’ll have the transmission out. Was the engine ran without oil?

 

[ErikFinn]

Why is the gearbox bolted to the oilpan by means of the three fairly large bolts?

Is this for the total rigidity of the two pieces and therefore overall chassis rigidity, or is there a more sophisticated design reason?

I have not taken the gearbox out yet to investigate more, but I just can not comprehend why VW decided to have an oil pan with both vertical and horizontal forces acting on it.

 

[ErikFinn]

It doesn’t look like any of that metal got into the oil, did it? If not all you need to do is replace the pan, rear seal and maybe the clutch since you’ll have the transmission out. Was the engine ran without oil?

Metal did not get into the oil from this oil pan. However, some alumetal did get into oil from the previous pan when it hit a rock and broke the bottom. That's why I'll change the oil cooler now also, just in case there is some metal fragments inside it.
Not ran without oil.

 

[Tdijarhead]

It looks like the damage to the rear seal was done by the flywheel. In which case you’ll probably need a complete new clutch also.

I have no idea why the oil pan is like that. German engineering.

 

[Franko6]

The three bolts between the oil pan and lower bell housing are for a more rigid bell housing to oil pan connection, but truthfully, when we put in a girdle, we can't even use those bolts!

There are 4 of those oil pan bolts that go between the bell housing and the oil pan. Two go into the rear main seal. Two are more accessible and go on either side of the rear main seal. I don't know how the bolts got into the clutch, but there is a good possibility it's not 'ruined'. But that guy should pay attention when doing installs, that he tightens all the screws.

Having a 'two piece' rear main seal is a bummer. With the tranny out, check to see what's up with your clutch. It could be that the two loose screws did more than tear up the oil pan. It might have bent a pressure plate spring or who knows what. If its an OEM dual mass flywheel, I'd probably replace it anyway. If they make it 250k, that seems to be a stretch. It depends on driving style.