Oil spewed out- now what should I ask?

[dagaboard]

Last night on her commute home, my wife's '13 JSW TDI with 30,000 miles all of the sudden flashed red oil pressure indicator. She pulled over in about a 1/4 mile when she could safely clear the traffic and heard some grinding before she turned the car off.
VW Roadside Assistance was called and they towed it (flatbed) to the dealer where it sits waiting to be looked at. As the tow truck was lifting it, I looked underneath and only saw an oil soaked undercarriage.
I had just had the oil changed a couple of days ago with VW service as part of the 30k Carefree Maintenance Program.
My questions for you all are:
1. What do you think happened? I have my guess in that the drain plug wasn't tightened correctly and wiggled loose, dumping the oil.
2. More importantly, what should I be asking VW to look for in the damage inspection? Should they be pulling certain filters for metal bits?
3. What should I do with the car if there is possible engine damage? Negotiate a trade-in for a new one?

Any and all advice welcome.

My wife and I are truly sad about this since we thoroughly enjoy the car and mpg.

 

[TDI smile]

Now, we have to wait for VW's response, but the Oil plug might be the reason.... If that was so, you should ask for a new engine, since VW serviced the car....Too bad, you could not look yourself under the engine and have a look at the Oil plug. In or out!

 

[Cogen Man]

I agree with TDI smile. When it goes on the hoist I'd want to eye ball it myself. To heck with the shops no customers in service bays policy.

 

[ninedee_golf_tdi]

Take your camera with you when you go look at your car.

 

[Tdijarhead]

At this point it doesn't matter whether you take your camera or not. All the evidence of negligence will have been removed, if any, and the dealer will have vw on the hook for a new engine. Which is fine for you , your warranty should cover you either way, but if the dealer was to admit to leaving an oil plug or an oil filter loose, then I would think vw would make them pay. Take a camera, at least it might show them that you are serious about holding someone responsible. Unless of course your wife hit something on the way home and cracked the oil pan?? I just hit a woodchuck, it ran right in front of me, reminded me again why I have a dieselgeek skid plate.

 

[Tuco]

I'm guessing she would have heard or felt an impact that would have caused a gash in the oil pan, so I'm betting the service tech forgot to torque down the drain plug. Carefree maintenance.

 

[Tdijarhead]

I'm guessing she would have heard or felt an impact that would have caused a gash in the oil pan, so I'm betting the service tech forgot to torque down the drain plug. Carefree maintenance.

My thought also, but depending on how bad the dealer wants to shirk responsibility, you should cover that base with your wife.

 

[oilhammer]

...
I had just had the oil changed a couple of days ago with VW service as part of the 30k Carefree Maintenance Program..

Doh!

Well, the care they gave it was free, right?

 

[Ol'Rattler]

Not the dealers fault. Clearly his wife put gas in the car causing the problem. Service writer: "When the HPFP fails, it will actually unscrew the drain plug. So sorry, but miss fueling is not covered by our really awesome warranty."

Seriously, what really sucks about having the dealer do a scheduled service is that usually, the least experienced person in the shop is doing the service with zero guidance and is probably being pushed to get it done as quickly as possible.

Many years ago when I worked as an oil change jockey at a Chevy dealer, one of their favorite repairs was to replace the pinion seal on cars that had oil seeping out of the pinion. When checking the diff on cars that did have a seeping pinion seal in almost every case, the differential was over filled. What i would do, is drain to the proper level and send the customer on their way.

WRONG! I should have written up the pinion leak so the service writer could sell the customer an unneeded and expensive repair.

Carefree maintenance = It's free, so we don't care..........

 

[Serra]

Now, we have to wait for VW's response, but the Oil plug might be the reason....

I had my Suzuki serviced at a Jiffy Lube and when I got home I saw a couple of drops of oil under it. I reached under and checked the oil plug, only to find I was able to turn it both directions with my fingers!

A few more miles and I would have lost all my oil. That was the last time I used Jiffy Lube!

 

[StevenL]

I've heard of where dealers have just refilled the oil and hoped for the best. Dont let them do this. As its a 13 your entitled to a new engine and id want a new turbo too, probably was starved of oil for a mile or two

 

[1854sailor]

Just noticed the OP's location. May we ask just which VW dealer in Baltimore? I have a sneaking suspicion...

 

[Rapidrob]

I have seen the old oil filter O-ring stick to the spin-on adapter. Easy to do on the TDI
The new filters O-ring will snug down onto the old O-ring and seal for a few miles. Then.....well you know.

displaced Glen Burn-out myself.( Harundale)

 

[belome]

We see this all too often around here.

1) They will say the motor is just fine.
2) You will rant and whine and waste a great deal of time, and they won't give you a new motor.
3) You will then try to get some type of 'extended warranty' on paper, that won't be worth a darn.

I think if this ever happened to me, I'd drive it till a rod came out the bottom, just to make darn sure I needed a new motor.

 

[belome]

I have seen the old oil filter O-ring stick to the spin-on adapter. Easy to do on the TDI

Wow, you mean they finally got rid of the old school oil filters? I had no idea.

 

[South Coast Guy]

I'm guessing she would have heard or felt an impact that would have caused a gash in the oil pan, so I'm betting the service tech forgot to torque down the drain plug. Carefree maintenance.

Oh you would be surprised by the noises and problems drivers overlook. They put the wrong fuel in the gas tank. They drive on flat (or grossly underinflated) tires. They never check the oil and don't stop when the idiot light comes on.

 

[RebelTDI]

I have seen the old oil filter O-ring stick to the spin-on adapter. Easy to do on the TDI
The new filters O-ring will snug down onto the old O-ring and seal for a few miles. Then.....well you know.

displaced Glen Burn-out myself.( Harundale)

I, too, have had an O-ring fail when the dealer had done the maintenance. Fortunately, I caught it before too much oil was lost and no damage was done. Sorry about your misfortune, but the dealer will have to make it right.

 

[dagaboard]

Update on oil saga

First, Thank you all for your various comments.

The bottom line is that the drain plug had loosened and fallen off and was found sitting on the splash guard.

As further background, VW roadside had had it towed to the closest VW service shop (Hunt Valley) which was different from the original oil changing/30k VW service shop (Parkville). The Hunt Valley service guys found the plug as stated, refilled the oil, ran diagnostics, and declared it okay -- charged me $90 and sent me driving back to Parkville ( to get reimbursed for the charge).

I met with the Parkville manager who apologized for such a mishap, offered to pay me back my $90, and said:

1. The car is fine.
a. If there was damage, we would have noticed it right away.
b. Since there was a large puddle of oil after my wife stopped and shut the car off soon after she saw the red indicator light, they believe the suction of the engine had held the oil sufficiently to prevent damage.
2. When I asked where else they could look to identify oil-starved issues, he said that they will pull the turbo and, since this is the end of the oil train, any damage would be seen there first.
3. They offered to give an 'extended warranty' of 12 months/18k for anything to do with parts affected by the lubricant system.



I talk to them again tomorrow.

 

[waltzconmigo]

i hate to see threads like this and the inevitable "it is fine" response from the dealer. I am neither an attorney nor a mechanic but if i was in the OP's position, i would,
a)contact an attorney
b)not accept possession of the vehicle, until both a and c have been done
c)contact a trusted tdiclub mechanic, in this case TdiRacing, for further consultation.

dagaboard, here is a link to the aforementioned members contact page.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/member.php?u=16069

i wish you the best of luck.

 

[keaton85]

Oil light=damage is happening

Period!

Now, to the amount of damage, that is up to speculation in terms of how much time the light was on. If it was an old 200k mile gasser worth $3K, who cares! But no why I would except a new car that had ever had the oil light run for more then a few seconds.

Like stated above, go after a new engine and turbo, or get them to buy it back.

 

[Tdijarhead]

First, Thank you all for your various comments.
The bottom line is that the drain plug had loosened and fallen off and was found sitting on the splash guard.
As further background, VW roadside had had it towed to the closest VW service shop (Hunt Valley) which was different from the original oil changing/30k VW service shop (Parkville). The Hunt Valley service guys found the plug as stated, refilled the oil, ran diagnostics, and declared it okay -- charged me $90 and sent me driving back to Parkville ( to get reimbursed for the charge).
I met with the Parkville manager who apologized for such a mishap, offered to pay me back my $90, and said:
1. The car is fine.
a. If there was damage, we would have noticed it right away.
b. Since there was a large puddle of oil after my wife stopped and shut the car off soon after she saw the red indicator light, they believe the suction of the engine had held the oil sufficiently to prevent damage.

2. When I asked where else they could look to identify oil-starved issues, he said that they will pull the turbo and, since this is the end of the oil train, any damage would be seen there first.
3. They offered to give an 'extended warranty' of 12 months/18k for anything to do with parts affected by the lubricant system.
I talk to them again tomorrow.

Wow, I expected much worse. I notice they owned up and apoligized, refunded your money,, are going to pull the turbo examine it and offer an extended warranty. Yeah I know it helps the op that someone else discovered the plug laying on the belly pan. It also helps that two separate vw service centers have said its "ok" independent of each other. Is it? Time will tell and having an extended warranty will help.

Some will say its not enough, maybe not. What else could they do. People make mistakes, sometimes really stupid mistakes. The service manager didn't hang you out to dry, and say suck it up that's tough you should have checked your oil plug. I think they went a long way toward making it right, I'd be inclined to work with them. Apparently they want to keep you as a customer. Whoever changed your oil may not still have a job and if he does I bet he's still feeling the pain.

 

[halocline]

First, Thank you all for your various comments.
The bottom line is that the drain plug had loosened and fallen off and was found sitting on the splash guard.
As further background, VW roadside had had it towed to the closest VW service shop (Hunt Valley) which was different from the original oil changing/30k VW service shop (Parkville). The Hunt Valley service guys found the plug as stated, refilled the oil, ran diagnostics, and declared it okay -- charged me $90 and sent me driving back to Parkville ( to get reimbursed for the charge).
I met with the Parkville manager who apologized for such a mishap, offered to pay me back my $90, and said:
1. The car is fine.
a. If there was damage, we would have noticed it right away.
b. Since there was a large puddle of oil after my wife stopped and shut the car off soon after she saw the red indicator light, they believe the suction of the engine had held the oil sufficiently to prevent damage.
2. When I asked where else they could look to identify oil-starved issues, he said that they will pull the turbo and, since this is the end of the oil train, any damage would be seen there first.
3. They offered to give an 'extended warranty' of 12 months/18k for anything to do with parts affected by the lubricant system.
I talk to them again tomorrow.

I would get ready for a fight. It took me two months of persistence and polite but firm communication with the dealer and VW to get my car fixed after a VW service tech dropped a glowplug tip in my engine and broke a piston. The service manager really did say with a straight face that the piston was fine even with a hole in it, because it was "only a crack". That's a true story....

The problem here, same as mine was, is that it's the dealer's fault, so it's not a warranty issue. This means VW won't pay for it, leaving the dealer to eat the cost of a new engine. They're not going to do that without being forced to. Even then you're probably looking at a VW reman, not a new stock engine, and they're very likely to screw up something while they're installing it.

If your car is almost new, probably the best thing you could do is immediately start talking with the general manager of the dealer or the owner, and try to work out a trade deal for a new car. See if you can get your money back via a favorable trade deal. That's probably where you have the most leverage.

And then, learn your lesson and NEVER take your car to a VW dealer for service again.

 

[StevenL]

Yes talk to the dealer owner. I wouldn't take the car back, instead id get legal advice. Its your buck, but unless the engine is torn down by a specialist you'll never know the extent of the wear!

 

[belome]

If your car is almost new, probably the best thing you could do is immediately start talking with the general manager of the dealer or the owner, and try to work out a trade deal for a new car. See if you can get your money back via a favorable trade deal. That's probably where you have the most leverage.

I happen to agree. The only real sucky thing is that now that car will become a 'certified used car' and will become someone else's unsuspecting problem.

PS - I nailed it... on the outcome.

 

[keaton85]

It MIGHT be someone else's problem, as it could be fine. But knowing what has happened is the issue.

Ignorance is bliss