Oil Specification and Oil Viscosity

msauve

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 8, 1999
Location
Hamburg, MI
I think my real problem still lies in why in the owners manual does it not say anything about recommended oil viscosity/specifications for the TDI engine specifically.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Read.



[ May 29, 2002, 19:02: Message edited by: msauve ]
 

peter pyce

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2001
Originally posted by msauve:
Warning! Mickey is a troll....NEVER take ANYTHING he says at face value, as it's usually worth much, much, less.......despite nearly dying of venereal disease and being hung by the Inquisition......
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey, hey, hey ..... hold on! Do you know the guy personally? Did you meet him at least once? ...Because I did, and I have to tell you that you are very much OFF with your statement! Mickey is a fantastic guy, with great personality and it's just great pleasure to be around him! But let's say this has nothing to do with this forum and with the knowledge shared here ..... Then I would say that Mickey is one of the 10% of the people who REALLY helped allot of us on this forum with his tips, advise and guidance ..... you may have some issues with him about the oil, but this absolutely does not mean you can use words like "never take anything he says at face value, as it's usually worth much, much, less"....... Keep it professional and you may even convince people, but if you keep going personal, it speaks bad only about you!
 

AutoDiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2000
Location
Pacific Northwest
People need a education in semantics around here.

From the previous VW manual listing of oil requirements.
"....SAE 5w-40. You can use this oil...."

I don't believe the word "can" use means "must" use.

And in fact.....
General recommendations.
"If SAE 5w-40 or 5w-30 viscosity grade oil is not available in your area, be sure to always us a viscosity grade suitable for the climate and seasonal conditions that exist where the vehicle is being operated. Always make sure that the oil meets the quality standards listed above."

So obviously the recommendations for viscosity are not written is stone. Otherwise they wouldn't have put in the above general recommendations.

Last time I checked, recommendations are just that, recommendations. Not edicts.

[ May 29, 2002, 20:34: Message edited by: AutoDiesel ]
 

peter pyce

Veteran Member
Joined
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Originally posted by msauve:
LOL, a worthy Pangloss disciple, trained to misquote to mislead. What flavor Kook-aid did they give you to drink?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you keep going this way, you will reach nowhere......... keep it professional, if you know what does it mean.
 

christoff

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2002
Location
ORYGUN
Originally posted by msauve:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I think my real problem still lies in why in the owners manual does it not say anything about recommended oil viscosity/specifications for the TDI engine specifically.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Read.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Unfortunately, mine does not look like yours, I can copy and post, but it stops at the Gasoline Engine section and in the TDI supplement it does not mention this either... thanks for the post though..
 

godlike242

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2000
Location
Bellevue, Wa
Originally posted by Drivbiwire:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by godlike242:
would you guys like me to scan in the whole article?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post a link to it so that others don't have to download a big file when opening the page.

LMAO
DB
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">140K isn't large.. sheesh.. the original 600dpi scan was 44 Meg.


ok. .i'll do that now..

http://www.pipeline.com/~bk/Image3.jpg

http://www.pipeline.com/~bk/Image4.jpg

both around 200K


oh, and one more thing.. i really don't give a poop which oil you guys use in your own cars (gee, shouldn't that be the case for y'all as well?) and i use the one that i have decided is the best bet for the TDI.

[ May 30, 2002, 00:48: Message edited by: godlike242 ]
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
Originally posted by GeWilli:
Pete,

PD specifically call for 5W-40 - ALH does not.

You are wrong flat out. No question.

Did you see this image?



(Thanks to godlike242 for the image)
Can't even Cite properly using either MLA or APA criteria geeesh...


but i suppose that is wrong - geesh
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Geoff funny how that TDI's here (read AHU, 1Z, ALH) call for 505.00 specs and there are NO Xw30 weights listed...I'm gonna ***** slap you the next time I see you


I gues your gonna keep telling us how 0w30 is considered as meeting the specs of "OUR" TDI's here?


DB

[ May 29, 2002, 12:47: Message edited by: Drivbiwire ]
 

msauve

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 8, 1999
Location
Hamburg, MI
So, in Europe, VW specs oil which is VW 505.00/xW-40 (pre MY2000), or which is VW 506.00/10W-30.

Again, as pointed out earlier, VW 506.00 requires specific empirical tests related to the VW diesel direct injection engine. Note also that the 506.00/10W-30 applications are ONLY for engines with "variable service intervals," i.e. they have the high-tech oil monitoring sensor. The article text specifically mentions that this was the change in MY2000 which allowed/required the new specifications.

Can you point to any oils available in NA which have a bona fide VW 506.00 rating? Did you also retrofit your car with the oil monitoring system, which is not sold in NA? If not, you should be using a xW-40 if you're going to follow the VW recommendations.

It's interesting, but VWoA calls the shots for the North American market.

[ May 29, 2002, 12:52: Message edited by: msauve ]
 
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SkyPup

Guest
The VW OEM Manual was written for those who have a 6th grade education!


You need to start working and planning to graduate from junior high school now so you'll be ready three years from now!
 

Georgeseq

Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Jan 2, 2002
Location
Columbus, Ohio
Regarding the comment
Actually, Series 3000 meets the VISCOSITY REQUIREMENTS. Duh. (Not surprisingly, since it's essentially the same viscosity as Delvac 1.)

The recently posted used engine oil analysis for DBW's Delvac 1 indicated a viscosity at 100 degrees C of 15.3 which is in the higher portion of the 40 weight range of 12.5 to 16.29.
The Amsoil 0W-30 used engine oil analysis for GeWilli's indicated a viscosity at 100 degrees C of 10.7, which is slightly below mid level for a 30W range. i.e. towards the 20W rating side.

This is a *major* difference in viscosity measurement and would yield a signficant operational differential.... This is not "essentially the same viscosity"......... One oil is approaching the viscosity of a 50W while the other is approaching that of a 20W..
George Morrison, STLE CLS
 

GeWilli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 6, 1999
Location
lost to new england
TDI
none in the fleet (99.5 Golf RIP, 96 B4V sold)
George,

minor correction

Series 3000 is not what I used. Series 3000 is a 5W-30, Series 2000 is what was in my engine and it is a 0W-30.

-Geoff
 

PWM

Veteran Member
Joined
May 10, 2000
Location
Western Siberia (Finland)
Hey - slow down !! I cannot follow all these new threads about the same issua ..
.. How you can write so fast (and so much misinformation
)

"Going back to PWM's claims - there are only 3 oils, none available in the US, which are xW-30 and meet VW506.00."

This is true - there aren't too many VW506.00 oils available ...

BUT did you notice how ACEA B5 is generalization of VW506.00 requirements !!
(Actually ACEA B5 will replace VW506.00 spec in the long term ..)
And those specs DO NOT limit the viscosities : You can produce oil with ANY viscosity if it passes the test.
The HTHS ~3.0 makes it almost impossible to be >30 ...

And note that BOTH VW505.0 and ACEA B5 are run on the same VW A04 TDI engine !! ("VW DI" in the spec)

SO TELL ME !! : Why oil is not approved for that particular engine that the tests were made of and passed !?!

SkyPup has posted the VALID requirements by VAG.
AND all those viscosity grades are approved if the test is passed !!

Unfortunately I do not have time (or will) to try rectify all those deliberate lies that someaone makes.
The truth and fact is printed multiple times and is not hard to separate from lies !!

(BTW: New european TDI manuals do not require any specific viscosity - only oils that meet appropriate ACEA and/or VW specs.)
 

christoff

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Joined
Mar 10, 2002
Location
ORYGUN
Originally posted by SkyPup:
The VW OEM Manual was written for those who have a 6th grade education!


You need to start working and planning to graduate from junior high school now so you'll be ready three years from now!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Who exactly are you referring to?
 

BoraTdi

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Joined
May 8, 2000
Location
Raleigh, NC
I bet if the VW engineers on the TDI development team read this thread, or any other thread on 40 vs 30 weight, they would enjoy some laughs. It's like arguing to a sports science specialist that you are going to die an early death if you drink 7 as opposed to 8 glasses of water a day. It doesn't make that much of a f*cking difference! So 30 weight is thinner - your camshaft might wear out at 300k as opposed to 320k? Oh my God! The sky is falling!

Run!!!

Grow up guys. Go enjoy some sex with your wives or something until you find a more productive argument.
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
Everyone that misunderstands what is written in the VW manual !
LOL

BTW, USA TODAY newspaper is written with an assumed 8th grade reading level and the Wall Street Journal is written for a 10th grader.

About the only thing you need a PhD to read is the US Internal Revenue Service Tax Codes
 

christoff

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Joined
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Location
ORYGUN
Originally posted by SkyPup:
Everyone that misunderstands what is written in the VW manual !
LOL

BTW, USA TODAY newspaper is written with an assumed 8th grade reading level and the Wall Street Journal is written for a 10th grader.

About the only thing you need a PhD to read is the US Internal Revenue Service Tax Codes
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It is a difficult to be misunderstanding something that is not even there. I will double check, but I do not have the page that MSUAVE posted, wish I did, but don't. Why do we care on an oil viscosity vs. specification thread about what grade level the USA Today and Wall Street Journal are printed? It really has no bearing on what this thread was about. I was simply pointing out that in the owners manual I received, there is no mention to the information MSUAVE posted. That is why I am here. To make sure I was told proper information since I did not have anything in writing to back up what I was told. Now that it has been posted, Ican go about my merry way...
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
Oh No!


Please don't tell me that all the VW Owners Manuals are not the same and that some say one thing while others say another?


Amazing! What is this world coming to?

Now we have proof that even the Owners Manuals are suspect! Of course, you must have at least a sixth grade education to figure that one out!
 

valois

Banned
Joined
Jan 11, 2000
Drivbiwire, what happened to your post? you stated you were going to ***** slap geoff? Doing some more creative editing? Do you have any posts that are not edited?
 

peter pyce

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2001
Originally posted by BoraTdi:
...Go enjoy some sex with your wives......
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Great suggestion, but some people can't lift it anymore
 

20IndigoBlue02

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2001
Location
Was North NJ, now SoCal
TDI
2002 Golf TDI-- deceased
here's some shocking news

Castrol Syntec 5w40 (not available in stores, just the dealership) is API SJ/CF. You know what this means....

If supposedly the TDI gets a even more special Syntec 5w40, that is supposed to meet API CF-4 criteria....it's not licensed by API.

[ May 30, 2002, 09:23: Message edited by: 20IndigoBlue02 ]
 

GeWilli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 6, 1999
Location
lost to new england
TDI
none in the fleet (99.5 Golf RIP, 96 B4V sold)
Originally posted by 20IndigoBlue02:
here's some shocking news

Castrol Syntec 5w40 (not available in stores, just the dealership) is API SJ/CF. You know what this means....

If supposedly the TDI gets a even more special Syntec 5w40, that is supposed to meet API CF-4 criteria....it's not licensed by API.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">it isn't licensed by the API - its manufactured SPECIFICALLY for the N.A. TDI engine.

Additive levels are pretty close to delvac-1 and all the CH-4 oils.

Which brings the issue about API licensing - if VWoA doesn't think it is all that important, why would it matter to us (in terms of using some of the Amsoil products).

Lots of "hmmmmmms" show up . . . kinda poke holes in certain individual's air-tight 'opinions'
 

Boundless

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Joined
Jan 3, 2001
Originally posted by GeWilli:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 20IndigoBlue02:
here's some shocking news

Castrol Syntec 5w40 (not available in stores, just the dealership) is API SJ/CF. You know what this means....

If supposedly the TDI gets a even more special Syntec 5w40, that is supposed to meet API CF-4 criteria....it's not licensed by API.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">it isn't licensed by the API - its manufactured SPECIFICALLY for the N.A. TDI engine.

Additive levels are pretty close to delvac-1 and all the CH-4 oils.

Which brings the issue about API licensing - if VWoA doesn't think it is all that important, why would it matter to us (in terms of using some of the Amsoil products).

Lots of "hmmmmmms" show up . . . kinda poke holes in certain individual's air-tight 'opinions'
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seriously, why would VW go through all that trouble to have a sole-sourced oil from Castrol when something else like DELVAC1, or WHATEVER, was available off-the shelf?
 

GeWilli

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Location
lost to new england
TDI
none in the fleet (99.5 Golf RIP, 96 B4V sold)
because they have a marketing/liscensing agreement with Castrol USA. . . .

buisness is buisness - not always common sense . . .
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
Originally posted by GeWilli:
because they have a marketing/liscensing agreement with Castrol USA. . . .

buisness is buisness - not always common sense . . .
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">true
 

20IndigoBlue02

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Location
Was North NJ, now SoCal
TDI
2002 Golf TDI-- deceased
Which brings the issue about API licensing - if VWoA doesn't think it is all that important, why would it matter to us (in terms of using some of the Amsoil products).
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'll bring you to the Ford MoCo situation with the 5w20 oil.

Using 5w30 => voided warranty (as sily it may seem)
Amsoil does have a 5w20 synthetic. Still the situation will be voided warranty (API license not there yet, it's in the works)

Why does it matter to us....why would VW go through the trouble of showing us how to show the API starburst label? It looks like they are forgetting something here.
---------------------------
Though I still don't buy the special oil for the TDI crap. I'm probably wrong here, but in terms of inventory, most rational business person (or engineer) would standardize their oil for minimal costs of inventory. That being said, it would make sense, if many dealerships don't even stock the special oil, instead use the SJ/CF rated Syntec on our TDI's.

[ May 30, 2002, 10:20: Message edited by: 20IndigoBlue02 ]
 
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