Oil residue leaking - EGR Hole

[jblue]

Follow-up: Long-term results after EGR Replacement

I wanted to provide a follow-up on my EGR replacement, as ithas been 1-2 years since I posted on this issue.

As previously posted, I had replaced the EGR valve at 133,400 km, since my EGR was leaking oil through the vent hole for some time (and after trying other things that didn't work). EGR stopped leaking oil. I had posted at 1,000km, and 3,000 km after, and no oil observed. Well, I had started to observe oil leaking from the EGR again at 156, 200km. So replacing the EGR fixed this issue for about 26,000km. Since then I've been driving with this problem for another ~30,000km (my car is at 187,300km). Related observations during this time: of course leaking oil through EGR vent, and potentially related: over the last 5,000km, engine shudders on shut-down (may/may not be related). I'm considering replacing the EGR again over the next 5,000 - 10,000 km - although I would like to know and fix the real problem (leaking turbo seal? or wherever the oil is coming from) eventually.

Jason

 

[simbolo]

Hey, when you replaced the egr was it with a new unit or a used one?

 

[WAKeele]

Also, did you clean out manifold completely or any other areas of build-up?

 

[jblue]

I installed a brand-new OEM EGR, and installed it 2,000 km after completely cleaning the intake manifold.

J

 

[Cheshire Cat]

hi jblue, interesting this, only yesterday I read of another shortlived EGR the first having done112K the second less than 20K, I don't know why, If you had your old one it wouldn't leak again- it's now a stealth pipe, !!!maybe you should break out the grinder cheers Nic

 

[jblue]

Hi Nic,

Glad the race-pipe is working out for you. I considered that option, but am concerned about the lack of an anti-shudder valve and risk of runaway engine (worried about my wife driving the car and not knowing what to do). Anyhow, glad it worked out for you.

J

 

[jblue]

Looked into a new EGR, and am second thinking buying one. Three years ago I bought it for $125 (1stvwparts.com), and now they've quoted me $189 (checked tdiparts.com, and its steep there too - $199). That's quite a bit more than I was expecting, and willing to pay for a short-term (i.e. 20-30,000 k fix).

Might be worthwhile getting this troubleshooted (i.e. turbo seal?), and getting the real problem corrected.

J

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Hi Nic,

Glad the race-pipe is working out for you. I considered that option, but am concerned about the lack of an anti-shudder valve and risk of runaway engine (worried about my wife driving the car and not knowing what to do). Anyhow, glad it worked out for you.

J

it still has it's ASV

 

[simbolo]

Looked into a new EGR, and am second thinking buying one. Three years ago I bought it for $125 (1stvwparts.com), and now they've quoted me $189 (checked tdiparts.com, and its steep there too - $199). That's quite a bit more than I was expecting, and willing to pay for a short-term (i.e. 20-30,000 k fix).

Might be worthwhile getting this troubleshooted (i.e. turbo seal?), and getting the real problem corrected.

J

I just bought a used one from a TDI Club member for $100 shipped and installed it today, leak is gone and I hope it stays that way for a while, and saved $100

btw he had another one laying around, I grabbed the one on the right:

 

[StockRocket]

I have the same leak and have been watching this thread for a while. I'm wondering how many people have had repeat problems like jblue...

 

[mailman]

99.5 Jetta, 150K miles, EGR started leaking oil from the front blow-hole.

When I first noticed the oil, there was oil on the front of the EGR valve, the back end of the valve cover, and on the exhaust manifold. I wasn't convinced it was coming from the EGR blow-hole. However, I was concerned, because I don't want her to burst into flames. Oil collecting on a hot exhaust manifold is a fire waiting to happen.

I first tried removing and cleaning the EGR valve. I reinstalled the valve with all new gaskets (~$15). After three daily commutes (about 85 miles round trip each), I inspected it and was then convinced that the oil was definitely leaking from the front EGR blow-hole.

Went to VW and purchased a new OE EGR valve for $250. From reading previous posts, I saw that someone had problems with the cheaper one that sells for ~$150, so I wanted to try the OE one.

I just installed the new valve yesterday, so the jury is still out. I will repost with results after a few weeks of driving.

Just for the record, I have performed no recent modifications to my CCV venting. I've been running one of the original Wingnut CCV mods for about 100K miles now.

Curiously, though, I did recently replace my turbo actuator. I noticed that one other post made mention of their leakage starting after an actuator install. I wonder if it is happening because I am now getting full boost, which creates a higher potential for leakage? I know that I am not overboosting, because the VAG-COM graph shows that requested vs. actual boost follow one another perfectly.

I'll try and repost after I have some more driving time under my belt. With my commute, that won't take very long.

 

[simbolo]

Went to VW and purchased a new OE EGR valve for $250. From reading previous posts, I saw that someone had problems with the cheaper one that sells for ~$150, so I wanted to try the OE one.

mine started leaking around 150k and after manifold cleaning.

you are pretty crazy buying from VW, personally I rather replace 3 used ones over the course of 300k miles than spend $250 for new one at VW

btu thats jsut me

 

[NarfBLAST]

Some people have wondered if there might be boost leaking out that hole? Anyone tried tapping and fitting a boost gauge? You would have to disconnect the vacuum line to the egr diaphram of course. My hose is allready disconnected because the diaphram doesn't hold vacuum. I would get a racepipe and be done with leaks forever except that I really like my anti-shudder valve.

 

[TornadoRed]

I would get a racepipe and be done with leaks forever except that I really like my anti-shudder valve.

Based on reading some recent threads, the anti-shudder valve is probably overrated. In case of a runaway, the ASV would close, but then reopen one or two seconds later -- KABOOM.

As for whether the ASV is essential for a smooth shutdown during normal operation, I don't know.

 

[NarfBLAST]

Based on reading some recent threads, the anti-shudder valve is probably overrated. In case of a runaway, the ASV would close, but then reopen one or two seconds later -- KABOOM.

As for whether the ASV is essential for a smooth shutdown during normal operation, I don't know.

I'm talking about the smooth shutdown function. I tested without the vacuum line to the ASV (disabling it) and I found the shutdown shudder was really harsh (in my opinion). Since I am not really interested in all out performance, was just looking for a non-leaking replacement for my EGR (which doesn't open anyway) I think I will just modify my existing EGR to block the leak-holes (which if done in a working EGR would affect its operation, but since mine don't work, no problem!)

Anyone going to a race pipe should do this simple test and then weigh the benefits of racepipe cool good looks (and counter culture appeal!) versus smooth shutdown. Beside, deleting the EGR is free, just pull the hose off the top!

 

[mailman]

OK, I've got about 500 miles with the new OE EGR valve and it's dry as a bone. No oil anywhere. I think the problem is solved on my end. If she starts leaking again, I'll repost.

Otherwise, assume she's good to go!

 

[NarfBLAST]

EDIT: OCT15, 2008: Spots on driveway turned out to be from oil pan drain plug. The block off plate I made and the golf tees all leaked oil... this was a waste of time...
Took my EGR valve off the car today to seal up the leaks... (I don't recommend this on a working egr valve since plugging the atmospheric holes will prevent the diaphram from working properly. My diaphram has a hole in it so I don't care!) Here are six pictures hope you will enjoy (and maybe get a laugh from the duct tape ones)
Also checkout the video (30 seconds) on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXuz7d3hkzo

Crammed some tubing in the atmospheric pressure holes in the EGR, then I drove a golf tee down the middle of the rubber tubing for a very snug fit. I did the front (the really leaky one)

...and the back, no sign of leak but mityvac proves it is connected to the same air space...

I installed a block off plate on the EGR cooler, but I am cheap, and my EGR valve doesn't open anyway, so why buy two block off plates? I dicided to use a piece of duct tape just to seal the bottom of the egr so that I can take it off later and check to see if any oil leaked past the valve seat.

Trimmed it to make it look nice...

And put the old metal gasket on to keep the duct tape from coming off! I could not re-use the same bolts because they were too long for my super thin duct tape block off plate. Luckily I had these two shorter bolts that came off of the rear-most exhaust hanger when I had installed a trailer hitch and they are the exact same thread! Sweet...

So this is what my EGR valve has looked like for the past 200,000km... I think I ruied the EGR vacuum diaphram with solvent when I did my first intake cleaning. Oh well, I just clear the "EGR Excessive flow" CEL with my ScanGauge. Notice in this picture I have trimmed off most of the "plugs" I had made so that I could get the bolts back in!

So hooked up my new mity vac (imitation from Princess Auto $22, sweet) and made this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXuz7d3hkzo

 

[NarfBLAST]

1500km Update: no leaks from sides or the new seal to the intake manifold but I checked the duct tape "diaper" and found it was oily. So it does leak a little from the valve seat! This explains why even though my EGR was not operating and the intake was always oily clean there would always build up a sooty clump under the EGR valve. Experiment completed I will probably make a thin aluminum (sheet metal repair stuff) block off plate for the bottom of the EGR to replace the temporary duct tape one and use one of the flanges from the egr connecting tube I removed to hold it on.

 

[NarfBLAST]

2000km update: I guess oil can soak through wood! DOH! I shoulda used a plastic golf tee to plug it:

After pulling out the wooden golf tee that I had stuck inside the rubber, more oil leaked out...

So I came up with a clear peice of tubing inside the perfect fit black tubing now I will be able to capture that dastardly oil!!! MUHAHAHA!

 

[simbolo]

hey just wondering where do you have this clear tube going to? from the pic it looks like it goes into a vacuum line.

 

[NarfBLAST]

hey just wondering where do you have this clear tube going to? from the pic it looks like it goes into a vacuum line.

Yes! Just checking to see if anyone was paying attention! I stuck it into the end of the vaccum line that was going to the EGR. The other end of this line goes to the N18 which has been disconnected from the VACUUM system. It was just the most convinient place where the end of the clear hose fit to keep it from flopping around loose... I want to see how much oil I can collect in the clear tube and plan on emptying it using a MityVac and brake bleeding can before it reaches the vacuum hose. There is no vacuum there FYI disconnected at other end of N18 as metioned. Thanks for noticing!

 

[NarfBLAST]

Leaky EGR oil catch can!

Update: the clear plastic tube is collecting oil nicely and I was able to "drain" it using a vacuum pump. I'm happy with that, but...

Now that I have blocked the end of my EGR cooler There was enough oil leaking out the bottom of the EGR to make spots on my driveway! edit: spots on driveway caused by leaking oil pan drain plug. (in the past this oil would have been captured in the EGR Cooler/EGR Valve tube.) So I cut one end of the tube off to use a block off plate:

but the old metal gasket won't hold oil:

I could try a different type of gasket, but then I had an idea! I could turn the other piece of the tube into a CATCH CAN:

It should catch the oil from both sources!

 

[NarfBLAST]

Update: stilly leaking: I don't think vinyl likes heat cycles. Considering race-pipe.

 

[mailman]

OK, I've got about 500 miles with the new OE EGR valve and it's dry as a bone. No oil anywhere. I think the problem is solved on my end. If she starts leaking again, I'll repost.

Otherwise, assume she's good to go!

OK, I lied. I've been reading what this poor guy has been going through trying to collect the oil that's leaking, and felt that I had to pipe in and say that I've ticked off 5500 miles since I've replaced the EGR valve and it remains bone dry.

Just replace the EGR valve, dude.
You're torturing yourself !!

 

[suffeks]

i jb welded both holes yesterday, that was a bad idea. now i can't boost more than 4 psi. but at least its not leaking haha. will have to buy a new egr.

 

[NarfBLAST]

i jb welded both holes yesterday, that was a bad idea. now i can't boost more than 4 psi. but at least its not leaking haha. will have to buy a new egr.

Huh? That should not affect boost... I would re-check the vacuum lines, you must have dislodged one, or perhaps left the EGR one open causing a vacuum leak?

 

[TornadoRed]

Huh? That should not affect boost... I would re-check the vacuum lines, you must have dislodged one, or perhaps left the EGR one open causing a vacuum leak?

The EGR needs to breathe. Even a disabled EGR needs to breathe.

 

[NarfBLAST]

The EGR needs to breathe. Even a disabled EGR needs to breathe.

I don't understand? The breather holes are just for atmospheric pressure to push against the opposite side of the diaphram from the vacuum pressure. If you are not applying vacuum and you do not need the diaphram to move then why does it need to breathe? The race pipe does not breath, and yet I am sure you can make boost with that?

 

[WAKeele]

Hello folks! Some great reading thus far.

I'm new here and to the Jetta TDI. I just bought a 2001 with about 183,500. The same problem developed after a 800+ mile, 12 hour drive from Texas to Tennessee. I also had a small diesel leak on injector 3 from the return line, but have stopped that with a wire tie until I get some new hose.

It was a small amount I noticed the next day after the trip. I've only driven it around town a few times in the past couple days and have notice an even smaller amount oil. I'll monitor it for a while before I decide to replace the EGR.

Unless I missed something or have forgot already, this EGR problem on this tread has been only on 2001 models?

On a side note, I'd like to get a repair book with complete schematics and such. Anything better and/or cheaper than the Bentley?

I have a feeling I'll frequent this site A LOT now; )

--Adam

Update: I've put about 20,000 miles on the new EGR valve thus far and no leaks.

 

[suffeks]

Huh? That should not affect boost... I would re-check the vacuum lines, you must have dislodged one, or perhaps left the EGR one open causing a vacuum leak?

ya i have no idea. but ya, i can't make more than 4psi now...

so is that right or not? if not, what can the problem be?

thanks