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Oil Pump chain survey

B5.5 Oil Pump Chain

  • My 2004 B5.5 pump chain has not been an issue yet

    Votes: 73 22.5%
  • My 2004 B5.5 pump chain I think is making noise

    Votes: 24 7.4%
  • My 2004 B5.5 pump chain has failed!

    Votes: 5 1.5%
  • My 2005 B5.5 pump chain has not been an issue yet

    Votes: 155 47.7%
  • My 2005 B5.5 pump chain I think is making noise

    Votes: 45 13.8%
  • My 2005 B5.5 pump chain has failed!

    Votes: 26 8.0%

  • Total voters
    325

leicaman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2004
Location
Sheboygan, Wisconsin
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE, 2005 TDI GLS, RIP
Lets ask some serious questions about this Pump chain thing in order to gain sanity and information about this situation. Lets find out which cars have the more frequent issues.

Lets hope this is not a massive problem. But if it is VW should pony up!
 
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PlaneCrazy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 3, 2000
Location
Province of Quebec, Canada
TDI
Gone...
So far one failure out of 28 reports. OH3Hoser, what was the mileage on your car at diagnosis? Mine has not been an issue yet, so far 145,000 km on the clock. So I voted 2005, not an issue yet.

Hey I see you have a B6 wagon too! How do you like it? Manual or automatic? I just installed OEM projector fogs on mine (didn't come standard in 2007), and reprogrammed the DRLs to work through the fogs with my VAG-COM. Mine's a manual. What's your fuel consumption?
 

volkswagendude

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2004
Location
Canada
TDI
None for now...
Approaching 120000km here. Engine running smoother now, than when I first bought it. If this car can keep up as it has been doing up until now, all the way and past 200000km, it will be a winner in my books. I'm holding my breath :rolleyes:
 

OH3Hoser

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Location
Dundas, Ontario
TDI
2003 Golf
PlaneCrazy said:
So far one failure out of 28 reports. OH3Hoser, what was the mileage on your car at diagnosis? Mine has not been an issue yet, so far 145,000 km on the clock. So I voted 2005, not an issue yet.

Hey I see you have a B6 wagon too! How do you like it? Manual or automatic? I just installed OEM projector fogs on mine (didn't come standard in 2007), and reprogrammed the DRLs to work through the fogs with my VAG-COM. Mine's a manual. What's your fuel consumption?
Approx 90,000km, but that car was a lemon.

B6 is the replacement, is automatic. The car has only been driven 2000km so far since we bought it. Too early to comment on mileage, other than the fact that it is no where close to the TDI. Average 10L/100km but that is mostly city so far.
 

auntulna

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Location
Springfield, MO
TDI
05 GLS Passat wagon, mit panzer plate
Wow, what a horror story. These two threads can give one something to worry about. If this is going to happen more, it will be after warranty is over. Extended warranty maybe a good idea?

If you replace the chain, will it do the same thing as the first one? Many questions, no answers.
 

leicaman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2004
Location
Sheboygan, Wisconsin
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE, 2005 TDI GLS, RIP
auntulna said, "Wow, what a horror story. These two threads can give one something to worry about. If this is going to happen more, it will be after warranty is over. Extended warranty maybe a good idea?"

Yes a horror story. Now the real question is has anyone been able to get VW to PAY FOR IT. I think what VW should do is clearly extend the warranty to say a nice number like 200000 miles..........................................................
........................................................................of course its a dream...
 
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bigEZ

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2005
Location
out there
TDI
2013 Jetta Sportwagen; 2006 New Beetle
well, i have 42k miles, and last weekend when i did my tranny fluid change, i noticed the oil pan was coated with oil, above and to the back was coated with oil and the intercooler pipe was coated with oil. i thought the last was possibly the source of the leak, with exces oil getting out and the blow-by coating the rest of the under carriage from just driving around.

i wiped everything down and am going to check it out again soon to see if the coating has reappeared. with the info from these threads, though, i think i am going to point my dealer in that direction and tell them to check it out good to see if it needs to be replaced. i haven't noticed any new vibrations or noise, though, so the oil pump chain may not be the culprit.

i actually loosened a little and retightened the drain plug b/c i thought this might be an issue too. it seemed like it might not be in there all the way tight (i don't know why i thought this, but i did it anyway). i've always done my oil changes topside, so it shouldn't be an issue with a stipped or loose plug, but you never know.
 

jcaimhigher

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
TDI
2002, galactic blue
Yeup, I just now voted.

If you read that thread you'd see the history. If it's making odd noises, or rattling, or leaking, take it in and don't leave without insisting it's replaced.
 
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TDIsyncro

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
Just wanted to point a few things related to this survey. The fact that people are having premature wear of pump chain/balance shaft drive does not show up in the results. After reviewing the posts several times, this is what I see:

briguy66 --------- 2005, 151K, had to replace chain
OH3Hoser -------- 2005, 95K, had to replace chain
Whitehouseauto -- 200?, 95K, loose chain - I assume replaced
JCaimhigher ------ 2005, 65K, complete failure
Bookworm -------- 2005, ?K , replaced chain and hex drive

If Whitehouseauto is a 2005, that is a problem with 5 out of 32 for the 2005's, none for the 2004's. Thats would be 15.6% of 2005's, ranging from 65K to 151K.
 

jcaimhigher

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
TDI
2002, galactic blue
What I should point out is that my problems BEGAN at 40k!! The dealer replaced the balance shaft/oil pump pulley/gear/whatever and the chain guides were toast.

My PERSONAL opinion is that it's the chain guides that are failing. Mine disentegrated to pieces when main lunched. Now, that being said, the chain should have been replaced when they did all this work at 40k and that is my beef with them right now. If the chain was stretched (yes, they stretch after time if they aren't good chains) then it would have caused the damage to the tensioners too.

I can take pics of the pieces but id won't help you guys.

The tensioner is amber-poly plastic. I'm sure you've seen it on other tensioners and engine parts. The chain rides on this. It does wear, without a doubt. Personally I think this should be inspected at 100k miles to see if it's going out. There should be some wear. Some grooves will likely be in it. But if it looks splintered or if you can wipe pieces/shavings off with your fingers replace it and the chain.

Guys, I cannot stress this enough.

Also, no I didn't see damage on the hex drive but I don't know the term. If I'm assuming it's the shaft from the pully/gear tothe balance shaft then this was fine. It's been awhile since it was apart. Yes, I bought the silly tool to lock it in place but it's not eash holding that and tighting then gear down.

If you follow my thread, I'm likely going to limp it to the dealer and have them "deal" with it. They must have an idea what's wrong with it. And likely I think it's something to do with the sensor wheel.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I would like to add that out of the small amount of B5 TDIs I service, including my own, 2 of them seem to vibrate and make more noise than mine...both are 2005 model cars.

We may have uncovered that VAG changed something in the design, parts, metallurgy, production, etc. on 2005 versus 2004 BHW engines.

What we really need to do is get everyone to post their engine production number which is located on a white tag attached to the upper timing belt cover. You may have to remove the upper engine cover to get a good look at it.

I will post mine tomorrow, as wife is gone with the car now.

There are VERY few B5 TDIs that were imported, so this should not be too extensive of a list. Granted not everyone that owns one frequents this site. I have contacts at Volkswagen still (dealership level) and I can see if anything comes up on that end.
 

jcaimhigher

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
TDI
2002, galactic blue
Mine was imported, special ordered, but I'll have to check the code in a bit.
I'll post this, and then the code later:


Address 01: Engine
Control Module Part Number: 038 906 016 R
Component and/or Version: R4 2,0L EDC G000AG 6416
Software Coding: 0150034
Work Shop Code: WSC 05311
 

TDIsyncro

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
oilhammer said:
We may have uncovered that VAG changed something in the design, parts, metallurgy, production, etc. on 2005 versus 2004 BHW engines.

What we really need to do is get everyone to post their engine production number
Hopefully we can get enough production numbers to make a bit of sense on this. I will check with our local shop(s) as well. I think it would be smart choice for those with a 2005 to at least get a good mechanic to have a listen on the oil pan with the stethescope. As JCaimhigher, suggested, check the condition and position of the chain tensioner, if there is any doubt.
 

volkswagendude

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2004
Location
Canada
TDI
None for now...
oilhammer said:
I would like to add that out of the small amount of B5 TDIs I service, including my own, 2 of them seem to vibrate and make more noise than mine...both are 2005 model cars.
We may have uncovered that VAG changed something in the design, parts, metallurgy, production, etc. on 2005 versus 2004 BHW engines.
What we really need to do is get everyone to post their engine production number which is located on a white tag attached to the upper timing belt cover. You may have to remove the upper engine cover to get a good look at it.
I will post mine tomorrow, as wife is gone with the car now.
There are VERY few B5 TDIs that were imported, so this should not be too extensive of a list. Granted not everyone that owns one frequents this site. I have contacts at Volkswagen still (dealership level) and I can see if anything comes up on that end.
I just went ahead and looked at my white tag on the upper timing belt cover, but everything including what seems to be a barcode, is all faded out. Probably from my engine washes :rolleyes:. Is there any other source on the car for this number?
 
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MOGolf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 27, 2001
Location
underneath something
TDI
2001 Golf GLS TDI Reflex silver, rough road suspension and steel skid plate, 2004 Passat Variant, Candy White, rough road suspension and geared balanced shaft module, and much, much more. 2016 LR RR HSE TD6.
'04 Passat engine 1877.

Vibration levels vary. It can be smooth, vibrate as much as my ALH Golf, or vibrate more than the Golf. It all depends on how it feels from stoplight to stoplight, temperatures, barometric pressure, wind direction, sun position, moon phase,... Not consistent. It is smooth though with the vehicle running down the road. It just vibrates sitting still.

I've looked at the ECM injector balance numbers occassionally. Some strange numbers at times, and other times they are normal. Cleaning out the intake made no difference.

Personally, I think they set the idle speed a bit too low as one factor. Or it is the control of the intake flap progamming that may be flawed.
 

MOGolf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 27, 2001
Location
underneath something
TDI
2001 Golf GLS TDI Reflex silver, rough road suspension and steel skid plate, 2004 Passat Variant, Candy White, rough road suspension and geared balanced shaft module, and much, much more. 2016 LR RR HSE TD6.
If you can't read the label, it is etched on the block and probably covered with dust/dirt. Take off the engine cover. Lean over the engine and look straight down the back side of the fuel filter. The number is etched on the engine block directly blow the filter, where the engine mates to the transmission.
 

volkswagendude

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2004
Location
Canada
TDI
None for now...
MOGolf said:
If you can't read the label, it is etched on the block and probably covered with dust/dirt. Take off the engine cover. Lean over the engine and look straight down the back side of the fuel filter. The number is etched on the engine block directly blow the filter, where the engine mates to the transmission.
Thanks! I'll do it tomorrow in the daylight.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I always felt the BHW had a little rougher idle to it over the ALH/BEW/BRM engines, but I just figured the larger displacement was the reason, and the balance shafts were there to minimize it. You really only notice it at idle, after that the engine is remarkably smooth for a diesel 4 cylinder.

It appears after looking at ETKA that I was in error before in my description. The BHW's oil pump is driven off the balancer shaft assembly, not the other way around. And the 'hex shaft' someone mentioned (part number 03G 115 281 A known as a driver) is what drives the pump off the second balance shaft.

The drive chain for the BHW is different than the one for all the other engines, but I cannot tell how from the picture.

However right now one could conclude that vibration would not really be caused by the hex shaft, as this is post-balancer-shaft. You could take the hex shaft out and while you would have no oil pump operation, the engine would continue to idle as smooth as it normally would (until the engine siezed, of course ;) ).

Now excessive clearance on this hex shaft could certainly make a noise, but would not necessarily cause a vibration.

So, as far as whether or not one could do away with the balancer module/oil pump assembly and go with the simpler unit like all the other engines use would just depend on if the chain drive sprocket on the crankshaft is the same or not. As this is part of the crank itself. It is impossible to tell in the pictures. I do however have an AVH (2001 2.0L Jetta gas engine) crank in my basement right now. If I had a BHW crank to compare it to I could find out. jcaimhigher, do you have your old crank out loose? We could measure this sprocket and see.
 

MOGolf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 27, 2001
Location
underneath something
TDI
2001 Golf GLS TDI Reflex silver, rough road suspension and steel skid plate, 2004 Passat Variant, Candy White, rough road suspension and geared balanced shaft module, and much, much more. 2016 LR RR HSE TD6.
The closest sibling of the BHW is the BGW. It does not have the balancer shaft module. It's oil pump is driven by the chain from the crank. I don't know anyone in Europe with the BGW who could describe its vibration characteristics.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
MOGolf said:
The closest sibling of the BHW is the BGW. It does not have the balancer shaft module. It's oil pump is driven by the chain from the crank. I don't know anyone in Europe with the BGW who could describe its vibration characteristics.
Looks like the BGW uses the same crankshaft as the BHW, but different pistons (same as the 1.9L PD B5 engines) and it also gets bolted to a proper manual transmission. So it would seem VAG had to perhaps put heavier pistons on the BHW to get it to work best with the slushbox, and this may have been cause for more vibrations so the balancer shafts were added.
 
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jcaimhigher

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
TDI
2002, galactic blue
I think oilhammer hit it on the head (pun intended ;) )

The balance shaft interesting. It looks like a spiral bound masonry bit. It's like worm gears. It turns off of the chain from the crank, turning the other shaft the opposite way. Great to spin up the oil paddles. The "tool" to lok the shaft in place is just a cut piece of metal block. It's placed in a groove to hold it neutral while you tighten the bolts on the sprocket for the pump chain. Of course the engine is at TDC also. If not, you WILL notice vibration, and I mean you'll notice it. It means the shaft is off and actually "causing" more vibration. I had that happen. After their silly "fix" at 40k the car felt so horrible. I brought it back and asked if they checked the balancer and low and behold, they said they needed to order the "tool". Wouldn't you do that when you do the job???? Anyways, almost 1k miles later they fix it, and the entire time said I could drive it.

Don't let VW touch your crap and if you do, make sure it's fixed right, if it's not, PARK it, period. You'll end up in my shoes.

Yes, I have the old crank out and can measure the wheel. Just tell me what you want me to measure.

I'm having a seriously hard time believing the sensor wheel is shot or damaged. Here's why. (logic as a mechanic)
If the vehicle starts with the sensor kissing the wheel, spins up perfectly fine, idles smooth, and runs absolutely proper up to the 2.5-3k rpm mark and then kicks out and sputters, etc, then it's telling me the wheel likely isn't damaged and when you push on the sensor to make it touch the sensor wheel then the rpms go higher. Now, if we're logical here. That means the engine is getting the closest possible signal it will EVER get from the sensor (follow me?).

There could possibly be a ground problem? I don't know. But I'm almost certain it's not mechanical from inside the engine. If it were, then the car would act up AT idle and while revving it up to the point that it, well, starts acting up. It wouldn't be perfect, and then act up if the wheel was damaged. Again, IMO.

So getting the signal coming out to the ECU is critical I'm guessing. And there's three wires, maybe one is a ground. I haven't tested it all. But maybe a bad wire all of a sudden or truly a ground problem but I dont' know where that would be at.

Anyone following me here, am I making sense? Help me out. :D
Thanks!
John
 

leicaman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2004
Location
Sheboygan, Wisconsin
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE, 2005 TDI GLS, RIP
Engine production number

Here's a photo of my 2005 Passat's Production number. My Passat is working so far wonderfully smooth so I hope mine is one of the good ones. Notice that this engine was built June 27, 2004, but it didn't meet with the body until October 2004. So it looks like they built a bunch and then brought them to the production facility. Sure would like to know the numbers of the ones that have had issues.

 

jcaimhigher

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
TDI
2002, galactic blue
Most put clear tape or laminate over the sticker.
Mine is worn, but the block I think showed BHW 011 520
Build date on the car itself is 2 OCT 2004, stateside check in was 24 Nov
 

leicaman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2004
Location
Sheboygan, Wisconsin
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE, 2005 TDI GLS, RIP
I think the build number is on mine as it appears on the sticker 4765 I see MoGolf used the 4 digit number. If anyone knows what number is what, it is MoGolf. (note: I stand corrected since others have that same number on their label. I wasn't really sure what number is what, so that is why I photographed the entire thing. I am amazed how much stuff I learn here!)
 
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jcaimhigher

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
TDI
2002, galactic blue
I'm nearly positive that 4 digit number is the number that was made for that year. Doesn't have anything to do with the "version". For instance, his was number 1877 built, yours was nearly 3k later. The number near the "011" would relate to the line it came off of and whatever changes may have been made, ie: new cast, etc. But that wouldnt' change the number it is in the amount they produced.

Make sense?

That's why he asked for the number off the block if the sticker couldn't be read. The block doesn't have the build number on it.
 

vw4life

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2001
Location
New West, BC, Canada
TDI
Passat Wagon TDI
It is interesting that this has turned into a vibration discussion. Not to threadjack here, but i found MOGolfs description of his variable and inconsistent vibrations intersting. My Passat is also smooth as silk, except at idle in gear when stopped.

I still think this is a tip tranny torque converter thing or something as when my vibration is really bad shifting into Neutral at the stop light makes it pretty much smooth. MOGolf, it'd be intersting to hear further description of your vibration and if at a stop light in Drive, shifting to Neutral makes any difference.
 

Embs

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 11, 2005
Location
Tipp City, Ohio
TDI
2004 Passat GLS Reflex, 2002 Golf GL Tornado Red
vw4life said:
My Passat is also smooth as silk, except at idle in gear when stopped.
I still think this is a tip tranny torque converter thing or something as when my vibration is really bad shifting into Neutral at the stop light makes it pretty much smooth. MOGolf, it'd be intersting to hear further description of your vibration and if at a stop light in Drive, shifting to Neutral makes any difference.
My 04 is incredibly smooth on the road. It does vibrate when stopped, especailly in gear and it has since day one. I think it is just the nature of this engine and how it's mounted in the car. I don't think it is transmission related in any way. A friend has an Audi with this exact transmission, and it is so smooth I can't tell it's running. When you shift into (N) your taking the engine's load off of the drivetrain which really suggests that it's the engine that is the source of the vibration.
 
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