Oil pump/belt replacement on a '15 w/ CRUA motor(GSW)?

[tdidieselbobny]

Hi folks! I have a question. I thought I had someone to change my tb/wp on my '15, and he said he's heard of oil pump going bad in these and they have been upgraded, so before I spend the $$$ on the dealer only oil pump, is it wise to change it out? He only mentioned it because I think that crank seal in plastic housing is leaking, and if I was in it that far to replace the oil pump and pump belt. The person backed out on their offer to do my tb job so not sure what to do regarding the oil pump. I haven't seen many comments about the oil pump and belt failing....

 

[adjat84th]

Haven't heard of issues with the belts or pumps either.
Maybe a peace of mind replacement of the belt if you really want, as it is staring you in the face once the crank seal is off.
Maybe @oilhammer could chime in on if he's seen any issues with them on the EA288.

 

[tdidieselbobny]

I hope Brian can chime in, really don't wanna spend over $300 for the pump if it's not needed. The belt is only around $20, so I'll probably get one just in case the crank seal gets done-also heard that the oil leak I see on that side of motor could be water pump weeping and working it's way back to the right lower corner of the block....

 

[oilhammer]

Yep, have already had a couple higher mileage EA288s through here with no oil pressure due to the oil pump drive belt failing... same as they do on Fords. The oil pump isn't the issue, it's all the belt chunks that get clogged in the pickup and either the engine starves for oil that way, or the belt chunks finally allow the belt to fail and the oil pump just quits turning altogether.

Dumb idea. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

 

[Lug_Nut]

Do I interpret that correctly as it is a 'wet' rubber belt, one that runs in oil? How else would belt rubber get into the sump and the oil pick-up?


I guess it does. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

 

[oilhammer]

Yes, it is a wet belt.

Continental Oil Runner.

CONTI® BELT IN OIL (BIO) < Oil Pump Drive < Passenger Cars OE | Continental Industry (continental-industry.com)

It's pretty much responsible for every single Ford 1.0L 3cyl Ecoboost engine blowing up, so Ford doubled-down and decided to do the same thing on the 2020+ 2.7L Nano V6 Ecoboost engine.

VAG decided to use one in the EA288 TDIs.

Honda had been using them on their GX commercial engines for years with some success.

 

[ticaf]

Any way to diagnose a soon to come failure on those?
Preventive replacement at what mileage?

 

[oilhammer]

Tough to say.... but I've had three now in the 220k-270k range that were tooefed. Never seen an EA288 with 300k yet.

 

[Lug_Nut]

The one (only?) benefit is that I can claim I'm running a B.I.O. diesel, despite having a CR engine.

 

[Riflesmith]

Just completed an oil pump and belt replacement on a 2015 Passat CVCA. Alldata indicated that you have to remove both lower and upper oil pans. This is incorrect. Job was a tough one for me as I'm 63 and slowing down more than I care to admit. One design flaw that is nearly as stupid as the belt driven pump is that the bolts entering the front oil seal housing from the oil pan enter from below, This requires removal of the bottom stamped steel oil pan to access these bolts. Although in my case I had to remove it anyway to replace the pump.

This needlessly complicates things for those who simply want to replace the front seal/housing and oil pump drive belt. My impression after looking inside the old oil pump was that pump replacement was good for peace of mind only. It looked new.

The Passat has 235K miles. Engine was as clean inside as the day it left the factory and still has excellent compression.

 

[Tdimrtwo]

Great information riflesmith and oilhammer. My 2015 sportwagon has 250k and is now overdue for its second timing belt. Sounds like it’s a pretty good idea to replace the oil pump belt as well since it’s a known design flaw. Do I need to replace the oil pump and belt, or just the belt, assuming I catch it before the belt fails? Riflesmith, did you replace the oil pump and belt due to a catastrophic failure, or just as preventative maintenance?

 

[Riflesmith]

Belt and pump replacement was strictly preventive. I want 500K miles!

 

[Mozambiquer]

Yep, have already had a couple higher mileage EA288s through here with no oil pressure due to the oil pump drive belt failing... same as they do on Fords. The oil pump isn't the issue, it's all the belt chunks that get clogged in the pickup and either the engine starves for oil that way, or the belt chunks finally allow the belt to fail and the oil pump just quits turning altogether.

Dumb idea. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

What is the interval on those belts? I heard 250k miles, but that was hearsay from someone who said someone at VW said that...

 

[Tdimrtwo]

Riflesmith, did you have to get the oil pump belt from the dealer? I’m not finding it on the usual VW aftermarket parts suppliers. BTW, I too want to get 500k or more from my CRUA GSW.

 

[Riflesmith]

Found oil pump drive belt at Europa Parts. It's a Continental belt. I was a bit alarmed when I received it since it said timing belt on the box. Matched the OEM belt perfectly. It did NOT inspire 500k miles of longevity, but it should get me there.

Belt SKU: 010153

Front Oil Seal with housing SKU: 019016

I purchased the oil pump from FCP Euro.

BTW, I used my idparts crankshaft counterhold tool that I had on hand from my ALH endeavors. It fit perfectly.

 

[r90sKirk]

Tough to say.... but I've had three now in the 220k-270k range that were tooefed. Never seen an EA288 with 300k yet.

My wifes car has 307k on it and still doing great (knock on wood)

 

[Tdimrtwo]

I clicked on the link that oilhammer provided and found this overview from continental:


CONTI® BELT IN OIL (BIO)

• Up to 30% less frictional loss results in reduced CO₂ emissions
• Innovative oval sprocket technology allows for a 30% reduction in timing belt width
• More flexibility in drive design
• Lower friction and lower noise during operation
• Can drive additional accessories (e.g. water pump)
• Fatigue strength (240,000 km)
• Low system costs
• Compliance with timing standards thanks to minimal elongation
• Replaces oil-lubricated chain drives
• 
  Does the 240,000 km fatigue strength mean belt replacent needed at this interval? (240,000 km or 150,000 miles)

 

[RIP TDI]

Does the 240,000 km fatigue strength mean belt replacent needed at this interval? (240,000 km or 150,000 miles)

A possibly related data point: Ford 1.0L and 1.5L non-turbo 3 cyl. engines use a wet oil pump belt and a wet timing belt. No interval is specified for the wet oil pump belt, but the wet timing belt replacement interval is 10 years or 240,000km. Maybe just a coincidence with the Conti spec., maybe not.

 

[oilhammer]

I don't think I'll ever see one of those Ford engines that actually made it to its interval, total throwaway engines.

And the diesels (that we don't get) that use the wet belts (Transits, etc.) pretty much keep techs in Europe working full time doing valve jobs. There's a youtube channel that has one guy doing them one after the other.

 

[Benedict]

Good morning, I have a 2015 CRUA sportwagen with lower mileage. I recently found out about the oil pump belt in the car to my sadness.

I saw earlier in this post the recommended mileage interval of 240,000km or 10 years. May I have peoples opinion on time interval. Would it sound reasonable to change it out at 10 years, or would changing it sooner be a better idea?

I started working from home a few years ago so mileage intervals don't mean much to me now,

 

[tdidieselbobny]

Good morning, I have a 2015 CRUA sportwagen with lower mileage. I recently found out about the oil pump belt in the car to my sadness.

I saw earlier in this post the recommended mileage interval of 240,000km or 10 years. May I have peoples opinion on time interval. Would it sound reasonable to change it out at 10 years, or would changing it sooner be a better idea?

I started working from home a few years ago so mileage intervals don't mean much to me now,

People have said every other tb change unless the front crank seal in that housing is leaking, which supposedly necessitates the lower oil pan to be removed, but I watched video on Youtube of someone changing that seal housing on a 1.6 TDI with the oil pan still on, but not sure if you can change the oil pump belt with the oil pan on. Hopefully Oilhammer can impart some knowledge here....

 

[oilhammer]

The CRUA is not like that. And if someone swapped the seal flange on an old engine with the oil pan still on, they're an idiot. But that's another issue.

These ALL seem to start seeping some oil eventually. Until a proper aluminum flange with a conventional style seal comes along for these, I'm not sure I'd be too hip on replacing that flange just to have it seep oil again in short order. It's a big job, because they use a two-piece oil pan and the two bolts for the upper oil pan going into the REAR main seal flange are harder to access than on the older engines due to how the oil pan is shaped, and I suspect a lot of people will mess that up necessitating replacement of THAT flange as well, which not only requires the transmission be removed, but requires another SST to install as the CKP sensor ring is integral with it.

The CRUA/CVCA is an excessively complex beast of an engine. Too many parts crammed into too small an area. Wonderful from the driver's seat, not so much from a serviceability standpoint.

 

[tdidieselbobny]

The CRUA is not like that. And if someone swapped the seal flange on an old engine with the oil pan still on, they're an idiot. But that's another issue.

These ALL seem to start seeping some oil eventually. Until a proper aluminum flange with a conventional style seal comes along for these, I'm not sure I'd be too hip on replacing that flange just to have it seep oil again in short order. It's a big job, because they use a two-piece oil pan and the two bolts for the upper oil pan going into the REAR main seal flange are harder to access than on the older engines due to how the oil pan is shaped, and I suspect a lot of people will mess that up necessitating replacement of THAT flange as well, which not only requires the transmission be removed, but requires another SST to install as the CKP sensor ring is integral with it.

The CRUA/CVCA is an excessively complex beast of an engine. Too many parts crammed into too small an area. Wonderful from the driver's seat, not so much from a serviceability standpoint.

So does this plastic POS leak from seal or around the plastic housing that surrounds engine/oil pan? If it does need replacement, would it be wise to put gasket maker/sealant on the plastic sections that are against the block and oil pan? It was a video from overseas on YouTube, not much for videos on a CRUA motor. I'm just worried that if I don't replace it if it's leaking, it'll necessitate basically another tb job/labor. That's how my luck is. I am only guessing it needs replacement, as there is a decent amount of oil on the lower right rear of oil pan area. Won't know for sure until it is disassembled....

 

[oilhammer]

They just get "wet" all over, it is really tough to pinpoint exactly where they leak, because it is never that much volume. It just looks bad, because it eventually seeps down and soaks the foam insulation between the lower steel section of the oil pan and the plastic cover.

You can spend 30 minutes taking that cover down, cleaning everything off thoroughly, making sure it is all dry, put it back together, and it'll take another ~50k miles worth of driving to make that same mess again.

I've never seen one get oil on the timing belt, and they typically do not leak enough to get past the splash shield under the car.

 

[tdidieselbobny]

They just get "wet" all over, it is really tough to pinpoint exactly where they leak, because it is never that much volume. It just looks bad, because it eventually seeps down and soaks the foam insulation between the lower steel section of the oil pan and the plastic cover.

You can spend 30 minutes taking that cover down, cleaning everything off thoroughly, making sure it is all dry, put it back together, and it'll take another ~50k miles worth of driving to make that same mess again.

I've never seen one get oil on the timing belt, and they typically do not leak enough to get past the splash shield under the car.

Already have that foam oil catcher off. This leak I'm seeing is on the back right corner of engine, above the lower oil pan. Not coming from front by oil filter, as there is nothing around filter area- previous dealer suggested it was from when the oil filter was being changed. I have pictures on phone

 

[Mozambiquer]

Already have that foam oil catcher off. This leak I'm seeing is on the back right corner of engine, above the lower oil pan. Not coming from front by oil filter, as there is nothing around filter area- previous dealer suggested it was from when the oil filter was being changed. I have pictures on phone

Most often that's either the lower oil pan itself leaking, or it's the front main seal.

 

[tdidieselbobny]

Most often that's either the lower oil pan itself leaking, or it's the front main seal.

is the front main the one in that plastic flange?

 

[Mozambiquer]

is the front main the one in that plastic flange?

Yes, it's that plastic housing

 

[148am]

Does replacement of the oil pump belt require removal of the pump, or does the belt slide off the crank sprocket once exposed?

 

[oilhammer]

Belt slides right off, new one slides right on. There is no tensioner.