Oil Pan Broken, Engine Totally Shot. What Should I Do?! :eek:

[dogdots]

Man, I should get a stack of bearings and drill a hole through them all.
Get rid of the parasitic power loss caused by the oil pump.

Of course the oil pressure is made by the pump. The only thing remotely close to what you're saying is with the rod bearings, where the oil pressure is amplified by centrifugal force from the crank spinning.

The oil pump creates the flow, the restricted oil passages and tight tolerances between the moving parts and the bearings creates the increased resistance to flow, thereby creating higher oil pressure in the system.

Look at it this way...your heart pumps your blood through the restrictions in your arteries, creating blood pressure. If you have a massive arterial blowout, your blood pressure drops to near immeasurable levels.

The centrifugal force of the crank spinning has no effect on oil pressure.

 

[AndyBees]

No pump (water, oil, air, gas, etc.) will build pressure without a restriction down stream.... that's a no brainer. But, trash the tolerances of the oil pump and it will not maintain proper pressure down stream. Or, as in DogDots example, if something goes kaput (blow-out) down stream, the pressure will drop. Example: by-pass valve inside the filter housing sticks open, sealing O-ring at the top of the oil filter is left off, sealing O-ring at the bottom the oil filter is left out, one of the four cylinder sprayers falls out of the gallery, oil line to Turbo breaks, oil pressure sending unit backs out, etc.

If (if), the centrifugal force increases oil pressure, it would only be on the rod journals ......... absolutely no affect on the pressure at the Turbo, lifters, cylinder sprayers, and cam journals. In fact, the centrifugal force at the rod bearings would seem to have a negative affect by slinging the oil out...

I've never torn down a VNT 15 (even one that's been on the shelf for months) that didn't have a considerable amount of oil on the shaft, bushing, and inside the housing..... residual oil will always be there doing it's thingy!

What year did VW install "cam bearings" in the ALH head?

 

[[486]]

The oil pump creates the flow, the restricted oil passages and tight tolerances between the moving parts and the bearings creates the increased resistance to flow, thereby creating higher oil pressure in the system.

Look at it this way...your heart pumps your blood through the restrictions in your arteries, creating blood pressure. If you have a massive arterial blowout, your blood pressure drops to near immeasurable levels.

The centrifugal force of the crank spinning has no effect on oil pressure.

Yes, restricted flow makes pressure. Very good. Gold star.

On an ALH, 3.76" stroke, so half that's a radius of 1.875 inches or so. 4k rpm is a good "high but still everyday" speed
According to this calculator that's 850 Gs
At that point the physics gets beyond me, converting it to pressure and all.

You're telling me that that column of oil in the gundrilled oil passages in the crankshaft being subjected to 850 Gs is not going to raise the pressure seen at the rod bearings at all.
You'd best get a positive displacement pump on the cooling system of your vehicle if that's so.

More to the point, what was the point again?

ETA: Wow. It took me a whole half hour to take what I typed and thin it down to something only moderately acrid. I should probably go back to the PBB...

 

[turbocharged798]

Back to the topic...pulling apart the current motor to see if its rebuildable is likely the cheapest rout. I am guessing the cylinders will be fine but the rod bearings are probably gone. If they are not spun then get the crank turned and install undersized bearings. The head is the next spot where the aluminum like to gall up. you will need a head if this happened.

 

[Dimitri16V]

No pump (water, oil, air, gas, etc.) will build pressure without a restriction down stream.... that's a no brainer. But, trash the tolerances of the oil pump and it will not maintain proper pressure down stream. Or, as in DogDots example, if something goes kaput (blow-out) down stream, the pressure will drop. Example: by-pass valve inside the filter housing sticks open, sealing O-ring at the top of the oil filter is left off, sealing O-ring at the bottom the oil filter is left out, one of the four cylinder sprayers falls out of the gallery, oil line to Turbo breaks, oil pressure sending unit backs out, etc.

If (if), the centrifugal force increases oil pressure, it would only be on the rod journals ......... absolutely no affect on the pressure at the Turbo, lifters, cylinder sprayers, and cam journals. In fact, the centrifugal force at the rod bearings would seem to have a negative affect by slinging the oil out...

I've never torn down a VNT 15 (even one that's been on the shelf for months) that didn't have a considerable amount of oil on the shaft, bushing, and inside the housing..... residual oil will always be there doing it's thingy!

What year did VW install "cam bearings" in the ALH head?

Never . As far as I know the only 4 cylinder OHC VW motor with replaceable cam bearings is the PD engine

 

[Mateo92807]

File a claim

File a claim with the agency who owns the road where the pothole is/was. This should be the town/city/county/state dept. of transportation/township, etc. A pothole that large is unacceptable and they are likely liable for the damage caused to your vehicle. That is unless they can prove that you hitting the pothole was caused by your own negligence (for example: if the pothole was outside of the travel lane and you swerved or something like that).

Typically when trying to get a government agency to pay out for damage caused on a roadway, you'll need to file a claim, but check with your state. If your claim is denied then you can file a civil suit, perhaps in small claims court, for the damages. You might win, who knows.

Best of luck.

 

[ErikFinn]

Jack the car up, use a hammer to get a better look at the bottom end, pull a few rod caps and look at the bearings. Rod bearings usually go before mains.

If they look good, then plop a pan onto it and run it until the turbo dies. Make sure your ASV works in case the failure mode dumps oil into the intake. Then use that as an excuse to put a bigger turbo on it.

"Rod bearings usually go before mains." - could someone please explain this to me, why is it so? I don't doubt it at all, have a similar case at hand and trying to help, and just wondering how likely the damage might be limited to rod bearings only.. TY.

 

[tgray]

Look around for a good used engine. These cars are worth repairing if the body is good. To rebuild will cost a lot more. I have one sitting in my shop that I will sell for $500 pulled from a good running car but I live a long way from you. To rebuild one is 3x that. Usually loss of oil for very long will trash the rods and maybe the head at the cam bearings and maybe some piston ring scoring. . I just pulled one apart that spun the rod bearings but the head was saved because the engine locked up after one rod broke and locked the crank. Most pistons had stuck rings as well which would end up a total rebuild to do it right.

 

[PakProtector]

I'd get damage confirmed, then look for a spare engine. Where the bodies rust, engines are less expensive... I have an ALH that got its pan broken, and it is a low oil pressure engine now( and sitting in the pole barn, not comfortably ensconced in its proper home, a 2000 Jetta ). The turbo is for some reason still OK. Given that you've wrecked your turbo, I have some significant doubt that the rest of the engine will be OK without some new bits. Best o' luck with its resurrection.
cheers,
Douglas

 

[[486]]

"Rod bearings usually go before mains." - could someone please explain this to me, why is it so?

oil gets to the rods only after it's gone through the mains

 

[BuckeyeMan71]

Folks, I'm a first time owner of a TDI. I have owned this beautiful 2000 Golf TDI for about a month now. Yes, just about a month.

I had interest in TDIs for few years and I've been studying, researching, and window shopping for those years on here at TDIclub and other websites. Let me thank for all of your insight and knowledge at this opportunity.

I bought this Golf about a month ago in Virginia at little below 190k, and now it's currently little over 190k. I bought it from Mountain Valley Motors in Dayton, VA, and had Malone Stage Tune 1 and Dynamic EGR done there at same time. Oh by the way, Linford over there at Mountain Valley Motors is knowledgeable and courteous man to his customers. I give two thumbs up for him. Anyhow, my dream was to keep this car as long as it drives and as long as it is repairable in reasonable cost range.

However, my dream is about to be shattered now as I hit this pot hole last night, and as I just found out about an hour ago from this shop where my car is currently towed at, that the whole bottom of oil pan broke due to the pot hole I hit last night and the engine is completely shot due to engine running for a while even after oil leak.

Folks, I really desperately need your insight, knowledge, input, and any kind of help you can offer. What should I do??!!!

Should I replace the engine? If so, where would be the best place for me to look for one given that I live on Long Island in NY and the car is currently located in Queens, NY?

Or Should I sell the car as is? If then, what would be its reasonable value? Anyone interested?

Or should I go through my insurance company? I just spoke to them as well and an adjuster will be coming out to inspect the car within next 5 days, but I do not have great hopes with them as the deductible I have with the insurance company now is at $2500 and the best KBB value that I can expect to get with this car is less than $4000. But would it be still better off to take this route?

I really would appreciate any kinds of help with this. And sorry if I have posted this at wrong side of the forum. It is my first time to post anything on this forum.
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HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would go take a picture of the pot hole and then take it to the city in which it happened and also show them the pics of your car and make them pay for it. They should be liable for it

 

[KrashDH]

I would go take a picture of the pot hole and then take it to the city in which it happened and also show them the pics of your car and make them pay for it. They should be liable for it

Guys, this post was resurrected from 2014. @ErikFinn replied to it because of a question related instead of creating a separate thread. Just a heads up...

 

[P2B]

I would go take a picture of the pot hole and then take it to the city in which it happened and also show them the pics of your car and make them pay for it. They should be liable for it

You do realize the OP's pot hole incident took place 6 years ago, right?

 

[[486]]

I would go take a picture of the pot hole and then take it to the city in which it happened and also show them the pics of your car and make them pay for it. They should be liable for it

maybe in europe, def not in the us of a
you're free to start a lawsuit against the city but you're just going to bankrupt yourself doing that, as they've already got your money to fight you with

 

[ErikFinn]

oil gets to the rods only after it's gone through the mains

Thank you I appreciate that very much, makes totally sense now. ?
And sorry guys for resurrecting this old thread, a friend busted his oil pan to stone and drove the car until it died ?
I've been trying to research if it might be a feasible option to change the bottom rod bearings only (not mains), accessing them from under the engine and engine in place, and now feel confident so much that I will do it for him.

 

[ErikFinn]

One further question please, as to the size of the rod bearings: order standard size first, install one, measure using plastigauge, if within tolerances, proceed with the rest?
Engine has 340'000 miles on it.
Or should I order one size larger straight away?

 

[PakProtector]

Definitely standard size. The next size is for a crank that has been ground down to deliver the proper clearance. The chance of the original failure removing that much metal whilst leaving a serviceable finish/roundness of the journal is small IMO.

Getting a micrometer on the rod journals will tell you where you are...along with a visual on just what the surface finish is.
cheers,
Douglas

 

[BobnOH]

I like your plan, but I would do all the bearings if they're spun.

Also change the oil filter and the oil/water cooler thing.

 

[ErikFinn]

I like your plan, but I would do all the bearings if they're spun.
Also change the oil filter and the oil/water cooler thing.

All? Meaning main bearings also? Is it doable from under the engine while engine still in place in the car?

"oil/water cooler thing" - radiator & oil cooler?

 

[BobnOH]

Yes, I had to dremel off a small bit of block to get one of the main cap screws.
Not sure what engine we're working on, but my only experience is with the ALH(VE), pretty sure the lower end of the PD is similar.
thingy is this-

https://www.idparts.com/images/1507_oilcooler.jpg

Book says to replace when you have spun the bearings, small metal flakes.

 

[ErikFinn]

Ok, great info thank you. ?
This is a 2001 90hp tdi Golf, I reckon its an " ALH".
I need to get my hands on something like Haynes manual, but for now, anyone could guide me to an exploded view of the ALH bottom, showing the main and rod bearings?

 

[BobnOH]

Well I couldn't figure out how to upload the data or contact you direct, so I clicked Start Conversation, hope you got it (instructions I used).

 

[ErikFinn]

Yes I did, thank you! I really really appreciate it! ?