Oil leaks appeared out of nowhere

[T4RBoarder]

Alright, here's my newb question of the year.

Seemingly out of nowhere (within the past 5k miles) I've gone from having the underside of my motor (CRUA) be dry as a bone to having a rather large oil leak, in addition I have oil being pushed out past the seal of my oil cap (already tried replacement). My question is, is it common for the breather/CCV on these to have issues and create pressure/blow out seals?

Potentially unrelated there's also this "gargling" noise I've been noticing more recently on cold starts that seems to be getting louder as well. Will try and get some audio of that if I can.

 

[nathanso]

How many miles are on your 2015 and what type of oil have you been using?

 

[T4RBoarder]

How many miles are on your 2015 and what type of oil have you been using?

116k and run Rowe Hightec Synth DPF 5W-30 from idparts every 10k

 

[oilhammer]

Strange, it sounds a lot like the VAG gasser EA888 engines that have the crankcase pressure regulator stick and cause the crankcase to overpressurize and blow out [the world's dumbest designed] rear main seal. I do a boatload of those.

Never seen it happen on a CRUA engine, though. But the basic design is similar. On that engine, the pressure regulation is done via the valve that is integral with the camshaft cover. The big clipped in round thing near the oil fill cap. If that is bad, you'll need to replace the whole cover. That is also how the 2.5L chain gassers are, too. I do a lot of those as well.

That is a big job. The injectors need to come out, so there are seals/washers/etc. related to those as well.

 

[T4RBoarder]

There was a whole bunch of work done around 88k on the top end (new cam assembly x 2), I wonder if they might have screwed something up (more than they already did) and it's really starting to manifest now?

Below is a link of my cold start noise as well, I pulled the cap since it shows the sound more prevalently but it usually can be heard with it still on. This really might be nothing.

CLICK ME

 

[ticaf]

pull the engine cover, do you see any oil ?

engine sound seems normal to me.

 

[oilhammer]

I would bring it back to whomever did all that engine work and have them take a look. It may be related, it may not. The 2015 engines are unique (for us), first and only model year we got them. So we really do not know a *lot* about them long term yet. They may prove to be a pile of junk going forward, who knows. The only trends I know of with them is that they often tend to use some oil, have the issue with the cam phasing (which that may have been why yours was previously worked on?), the DEF injector connection leaks, and the water pumps (at least the original ones) often die long before the timing belt would be due.

 

[T4RBoarder]

I would bring it back to whomever did all that engine work and have them take a look. It may be related, it may not. The 2015 engines are unique (for us), first and only model year we got them. So we really do not know a *lot* about them long term yet. They may prove to be a pile of junk going forward, who knows. The only trends I know of with them is that they often tend to use some oil, have the issue with the cam phasing (which that may have been why yours was previously worked on?), the DEF injector connection leaks, and the water pumps (at least the original ones) often die long before the timing belt would be due.

Unfortunately I'm 3+ hours away from the dealer that did the work initially and I don't have a ton of confidence in them anyway. They turned a WP/TB job (mine leaked early) into a cam replacement when they didn't do the job right, it also required subsequent return visits to fix leaking from that as well. I have an appointment with a dealer here in a few weeks.

pull the engine cover, do you see any oil ?

engine sound seems normal to me.

There's no leaking I see underneath the cover, looks more like oil blown from what's coming out from underneath the cap.

 

[JELLOWSUBMARINE]

I agree with oilhammer on original repair shop. It takes any responsiblitty off them when someone else sticks there hands on it. Unless your still under warrenty I guess it could be advisable if they are that bad.

 

[T4RBoarder]

pull the engine cover, do you see any oil ?

engine sound seems normal to me.

I agree with oilhammer on original repair shop. It takes any responsiblitty off them when someone else sticks there hands on it. Unless your still under warrenty I guess it could be advisable if they are that bad.

I’m still under the emissions warranty and I have 3k left on a 3rd party warranty I got when I bought the car

 

[thundershorts]

It sounds like for some reason the blow by, crankcase pressure has suddenly increased, squeezing oil out. If this is happening, the causes can be several things, none of which are easy to fix

 

[740GLE]

If someone touched the cams, they also touched the PVC system the issues is bound to be there.

Also the PCV system of the TSI and TDI aren't quite apples to apples comparison there Oil Hammer , not saying the TSI aren't a POS, but i don't believe the TDIs are anywhere as failure prone, (unless you had someone monkeying around by the valve cover).

Either way good luck with the 3rd party warranty, IMO they'll prob point to poor workmanship soon as they know someone has touched the PCV system as part of another repair and wash their hands.

 

[oilhammer]

They both (well, they ALL, since I will include the 2.5L chain engines and the VR6 engines in there) use the same style crankcase pressure regulator valve, supplied by either Mann+Hummel or Hengst. The only difference is the diesels all vent into the intake air stream ahead of the turbo (single route), the non-turbo gas engines all vent directly into the intake manifold behind the throttle (single route), and the turbo gas engines use the dual route setup depending on if the manifold is under boost or vacuum. If under boost, they vent ahead of the turbo like the diesels. If under vacuum it is pulled directly into the intake manifold.

But on the engine itself, it all is working the same way. And because now all these engines I mention use a mechanical vacuum pump for the brake booster, they all have the crankcase vapors scavenged with the help of these pumps.

So yes, they are very much alike. And they can all fail, but the diesels won't ever exhibit anything "bad" happening typically, other than an increase in oil consumption. There is no air-fuel ratio screwing around they will flag.

 

[740GLE]

While the "valve" and various plumbing bits of the different PCV systems accomplish the same thing, the TDI is quite different package and integration than the TSI. Do TSI PCVs have heater elements similar to the EA288 design? It appears the TDI has at least twice if (not 3X) the volume of swirl chambers, and 3 times the cyclones than that of the TSI. I think the TSI only has one cyclone that dips down into the valve train.

I guess it all comes down to how we view "alike", to me that'd mean you could bolt on a TSI PCV on at TDI and motor on at which point they are not alike.

Sure everything can fail but reports of TDI PCV failing seem to be few and far between (maybe because there's no noticeable symptoms), but then again maybe the EA288 design/integration may pose as weaker failure point than the CJAA.

 

[oilhammer]

Many VAG gassers have a heating element, yes. The early EA888 engines don't, neither do the 2.5L engines. The diesels (since all the TDIs are turbocharged) simply cannot "fail" like the turbo gas engines do, because they would have no mechanism to allow boost to be pumped into the crankcase. The early EA888 engines' crankcase pressure regulator is essentially the same component as the BRM's, except that it has that addition valve, and the BRM of course is integrated into the valve cover (the EA888 engines have no valve cover, in the traditional sense).

I think all these mechanisms, in typical German fashion, are overengineered, and fragile, and thus can become a failure point. We see the same thing on lots of BMW engines, as well as the early 1.4L turbo port-injected gas engine that GM put in those awful Trax and Cruzes and other models. Only with those, the pressure regulating valve is in the valve cover, but the two way routing valve is in the intake manifold itself.

I think the EA888's failure point is its completely STUPID rear main seal design. If that was a bit more robust, it would probably just push the dipstick out, and that's it. But the clips/o-ring that hold the dipstick in is literally sturdier than the rear main seal's adhesion to the steel flange. No other VAG 4 or 5 cyl or VR6 that I am aware of employs this stupid design. All the chain 2.5L, the BRMs, and all the CR TDIs use the same type flange, with the CKP sensor, and a "normal" type seal in it. But this is neither here nor there, as the other engines' couldn't boost the crankcase like that anyway (the 2.5L and the VR6 have no turbo, and the TDIs don't have a path to the intake).

I take a lot of the CRUA and CVCA engine issues as sort of a learning curve type deal, because these engines are, for us, unique to the 2015 cars, and (perhaps worse), are also the first year for them. It is kind of like a '98 or '99 ALH car. We KNOW they improved all kinds of stuff on 2000+ cars. Did they do the same with 2016+? We (Americans and Canadians) don't (and likely won't) ever know. One, because these would compare in small numbers to their European counterparts as they had a much wider variation of engines, and two they either got very few of these same cars (NCS), or none at all (NMS), and they likely were not as hard hit by Dieselgate. Speaking of which, there seems to be an almost "we've washed our hands of this" attitude lately with Volkswagen regarding any of these cars. Like all the CKRA cars waiting all over the place for new turbochargers, or the period we had last year with a shortage of DPFs for the CJAA.

So really, with the 2015s in North America, the track record is so short and spotty, it is anyone's guess. Add in the fact that a lot of these cars sat for a year or more, it makes it rather murky even more unknown.

 

[ticaf]

The CRUA/CVCA (2.0ll 110kw) have been around since 2013 I believe (maybe even 2012) on the 7 series in Europe. So in a way, the 2015 US version should have had the bugs worked out. Of course, the water pump issue has been known since 2013, so go figure.

 

[740GLE]

Also wasn't the PCV system of the gen 1 CR TDI (CEBA/CJAA) dramatically different than anything else before it (TDI or TSI)? While the timing system of the BRM matches that of the CRD, PCV not so much. The self study guides clearly shows how complex/advanced the system is compared to anything before it (for better or worse).

To me it seemed VW learned from the 2008 design and applied it to the Gen 2 CKRA platform then applied more experience to the CRUA/CVCA design and the adoption of the EA288 block + MK7 electronics. So almost a 6 year evolution over two designs revisions.

Sadly your right about the "wash our hands of it attitude" i can't argue about that at all.

 

[oilhammer]

They may have been forced to try and improve it due to the addition of the low pressure EGR. But as I've seen too many times, "improved" doesn't always mean exactly what the word implies.

 

[T4RBoarder]

So little update as of now. The dealer states there was no excess crankcase pressure and that it just looks like the valve cover gasket to them. Well the gasket has been replaced…and it leaked for them again with a vacuum leak. So they’re trying another gasket.

 

[ticaf]

Any updates on this?