Oil Analysis: Evolution CRV at 15k miles

moondawg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Location
Columbus, IN
TDI
2001 Galactic Blue Jetta
In my 2001 Jetta, from vehicle mileage 101,000 to 116,000 (ish.)

I checked my air filter, and it is old, but I didn't see any obvious holes. I'm ordering a new one tonight.

Seems a little odd that the oil filter would be tired at 15k. I was using Napa filter, as I was in the previous sample (also shown)

Any and all opinions welcome.

moondawg

PS, if you haven't read their FAQ, I think it's one of the best on the web.
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
are you running a stock ECu?

There's nothing wrong with your Silicon reading of 13...that's pretty low considering the distance you've covered.

Fe is "high", but it's not alarming. Can you describe how your car is used? Typical trip? Weekly mileage? How hard you drive?

Your soot level is admirable, if not impressive. I just don't know why people keep using the terms "soot loading" and "TDi" in the same sentence. These are clean running cars.
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
MD, one other thing, I'd like you to comment on your fuel consumption while running CRV. What did you learn during these 15k miles?
 

spoilsport

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Joined
Oct 3, 1999
Location
Houston TX
TDI
2000 Golf GLS Silver (Sold). 2005 Jetta TDI Wagon Tiptronic (daughter's)
The price of Elf Evolution CRV 0w30 just dropped back down to $13.50/litre!! :D
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
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Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
At 25,000 miles on Mobil 1 truck and SUV my iron was only at 56ppm with soot at 1.5%, Aluminum was 13, TBN 5.

FWIW to compare.

DB
 

moondawg

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Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Location
Columbus, IN
TDI
2001 Galactic Blue Jetta
Dieseldorf... do you ever "go home?" you're presence here is a joy!

I drive 90 miles a day, at 55 mph. (with one "berg" in the middle where I drive 35-40)

There is a long straight stretch leaving a stoplight that I try to "punch it" every couple of days to keep clogging to a minimum and perform a "cleaning swipe" on the VNT vanes.

Fuel economy has been excellent. I switched at the beginning of July last year. I had a good 4 tanks before and after where ambient conditions were fairly stable. My fuel economy improved by 8% after the switch.

The car runs pretty smooth, no performance complaints. The 0w30 *definitely* gets to the lifters alot faster when its cold out.. you can hear them quit clicking pretty fast.

For a while there, Fuel was pretty daggone expensive, and I was really saving alot by using the oil. With fuel back down to the ~$2.60 mark, the savings aren't as dramatic.

However, I'm changing my oil less often, and I'm using less fuel and less oil, which is just as important as saving money.

I will continue to use this oil.... and continue to get it analyzed.

moondawg
 

moondawg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Location
Columbus, IN
TDI
2001 Galactic Blue Jetta
Drivbiwire said:
At 25,000 miles on Mobil 1 truck and SUV my iron was only at 56ppm with soot at 1.5%, Aluminum was 13, TBN 5.

FWIW to compare.

DB
Interesting... I assume Aluminum comes from the head, and Iron from the block?

What is the starting TBN for Delvac? 10.1 for the Elf.

Did you add any makeup oil in that 25,000? I added.5L at 8k miles.

moondawg
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
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Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
I add about 1/2-3/4 quart every 10K, more if I am driving like a madman at jailhouse speeds.

Aluminum comes from the cam bearing journals (No bearings just aluminum of the head that is line bored).

Iron can come from the cam and cylinders or the #2 compression ring and oil scraper ring (solid iron rings).

With iron that high I would suggest having the injectors checked. Iron should never get above 60ppm in 15K in my opinion.

DB
 

SUNRG

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Location
Roanoke, VA
TDI
None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
MD - definitely go with an OEM "A" air filter - it has an extra layer of protection and IMHO it's the finest TDI air filter available.

i also recommend using a MANN/OEM oil filter - only because we know with 100% certainty that they're good for up to 2 years / 31,000miles. NAPA may be as well but...

117 is too high for me to be comfortable with. i'd resample after 10k with the new air filter and oil filter - then decide whether to continue to 15k. i agree with DBW that Fe at 15k should not be more than 60ppm in a healthy TDI.

soot is great at only 0.7%. do you have consistent access to high quality ASTM biod? if so, i'd run B33 to B50 as often as possible - as in general it'll help bring the Fe wear down too. but, if you do have an injector issue...

ideally, before changing the oil, i'd run couple cans of LM Diesel Purge, then idle at 15min with Motul Engine Clean, then both drain and extract used oil, then install new MANN/OEM oil and OEM "A" air filters and an ECS tuning magnetic drain plug, then refill with 506.01 and resample at 10k.

cheers!
 

mrGutWrench

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Joined
Aug 29, 2002
Location
Carrboro, NC
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon, 5-speed, 563K Miles (July '23)
Drivbiwire said:
At 25,000 miles on Mobil 1 truck and SUV my iron was only at 56ppm with soot at 1.5%, Aluminum was 13, TBN 5.

FWIW to compare. DB
__. Is that with a bypass filter setup? If so, what would you expect to see on M1 T&SUV at 15K with no bypass?
Thanks, MrG.
'
 

moondawg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Location
Columbus, IN
TDI
2001 Galactic Blue Jetta
I guess I'll run up to Greg L's sometime soon and have him check my injectors. (PP520's that I installed myself at 65,000 miles)

There are 2 possible mitigating factors I didn't mention in my first post (sin of omission!)

1. Had the timing belt changed by Greg at 5k into this oil change... it wasn't during a dust storm or anything, but the valve cover, of course, was off... there's always a small chance for contamination.

2. My sampling technique wasn't great. It was about -5F outside when I changed the oil. I sucked half the oil out with my Pela, stopped,then poured from the Pela to the sample container. The Pela has only been used on the Jetta, but I didn't clean it out spic'n'span from previous extractions.


I do NOT have access to any better fuel than the B5 from the local farm coop. This is VERY good fuel, and I will not switch unless I can get B20 from them. They mix Bio with their already premium diesel. They (Energy Plust 24)have B20 at a couple of their outlets up north, but nothing here in Southern IN that I know of.

I have a can of diesel purge, I will run it through. I will probably resample at 5k and 10k, just to be safe... I want to catch a serious wear condition before it becomes a serious "tow my car" condition.

moondawg
 

moondawg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Location
Columbus, IN
TDI
2001 Galactic Blue Jetta
SUNRG said:
MD - definitely go with an OEM "A" air filter - it has an extra layer of protection and IMHO it's the finest TDI air filter available.

i also recommend using a MANN/OEM oil filter - only because we know with 100% certainty that they're good for up to 2 years / 31,000miles. NAPA may be as well but...
Ordered both this morning at 8:44 AM from tdiparts. In the mail at 10:31 AM.

Dan Rocks!
 

mparker326

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Joined
Feb 28, 2005
Location
Knoxville, TN
TDI
Golf 2002 Gray
My sampling technique wasn't great. It was about -5F outside when I changed the oil. I sucked half the oil out with my Pela, stopped,then poured from the Pela to the sample container. The Pela has only been used on the Jetta, but I didn't clean it out spic'n'span from previous extractions.
This sounds like it might be part of your problem.
 

SUNRG

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Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Location
Roanoke, VA
TDI
None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
2. My sampling technique wasn't great. It was about -5F outside when I changed the oil. I sucked half the oil out with my Pela, stopped,then poured from the Pela to the sample container. The Pela has only been used on the Jetta, but I didn't clean it out spic'n'span from previous extractions.
OOOhhhhh SHIP!

MD!!!!!! - this UOA is completely worthless!

I'm not joking - oil sampling from a used PELA extractor absolutely yields worthless results. Extracting a representative lab quality sample to be analyzed in parts per million takes very significant care. Here's how it should be done:



And, extract the sample, send it to the lab, and get the results back BEFORE changing the oil. this way if some action should be taken you have the option of using a cheaper 505.01 or 505.00 oil while performing a repair or a short cleansing OCI. opening the airbox, performing a LM Diesel Purge, a TB change, etc. all can contaminate an oil sample too.

if you haven't already, i recommend installing an air filter minder during the process of changing your air filter. this will eliminate the need to unnecessarily open your airbox - and potentially introduce contaminants. plus it tells you if your air filter is functioning normally.

i have a 15" redline (very sensitive) air filter minder installed and after more than 20k of driving my restriction level is exactly the same as it was when the air filter was new. VW designed a very good air filtration system for our TDIs (IMHO). I reset my air filter minder every time i open the hood too to be sure the filter is pulling some restriction. if you reset a filter minder, and then it does NOT register any restriction after driving, that could mean you have an air leak or a hole in the filter - so too little restriction can be worse than too much restriction.

here's info:
for those that are interested, all the info on the air filter minder - selection, ordering, installation, etc. - is here: link
 

raybo

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Location
St. Petersburg, FL
TDI
2010 JSW DSG White Gold
Besides the sampling technique, is it possible that the lighter 0w30 oil "cleaned out" the engine? Perhaps this is a one-time higher Iron reading when switching??
 

03_01_TDI

Banned
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Location
Denmark
TDI
Na
I put a mustang part number amsoil micron air filter on order. Those air filters are supposed to be top notch at keeping the micron level dirt out.
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
raybo said:
Besides the sampling technique, is it possible that the lighter 0w30 oil "cleaned out" the engine? Perhaps this is a one-time higher Iron reading when switching??

only if he had been running bad oil prior.

I am afraid we're not going to be able to glean much from this UOA due to sampling technique.

Moondawg, is your car chipped?
 

03_01_TDI

Banned
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Location
Denmark
TDI
Na
whats the cheapest-- best method for pulling a good clean sample?

Would new hose and a large syringe from the vet supply store work?
 

truman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 18, 2000
Location
columbia,MO,usa
TDI
'05 Passat Variant, Still miss the 03JW
03_01_TDI said:
whats the cheapest-- best method for pulling a good clean sample?

Would new hose and a large syringe from the vet supply store work?
I don't see why that wouldn't work just fine. You might have to pinch the hose off after the first pull, remove the syringe, reset the plunger, and give it another pull to get the volume that you need.
I was thinking that a Mity Vac would work well also.
 

david_594

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Joined
Feb 28, 2004
Location
Cheshire, CT
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS Silver
Who did you use for the oil analysis? And where can we order that cool looking amsoil oil sample extractor.
 

5harkology

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Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Location
Ellicott City, MD
TDI
2011 JSW DSG
sorry to semi-hijack, but how long are most you guys pushing the ELF evo CRV intervals? I used amsoil 5w-30 on my turbo gas flat4 and changed every 10,000 without any problems, but I was way too paranoid to push it any further despite the amsoil 25,000mile rating.
 

moondawg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Location
Columbus, IN
TDI
2001 Galactic Blue Jetta
david_594 said:
Who did you use for the oil analysis? And where can we order that cool looking amsoil oil sample extractor.
Blackstone Labs
They're quasi-local to me, and I enjoy their personal replies and their sense of humor. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, check out their FAQ.
 

moondawg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Location
Columbus, IN
TDI
2001 Galactic Blue Jetta
dieseldorf said:
only if he had been running bad oil prior.

I am afraid we're not going to be able to glean much from this UOA due to sampling technique.

Moondawg, is your car chipped?
DD, No, it is not chipped. (but ooooohhh.. I wish it was.)

Many apologies to those on the boards for my poor technique. I do appreciate everyone's comments. I will be resampling at 5k (without TBN) to check for high iron.

moondawg
 

david_594

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Location
Cheshire, CT
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS Silver
moondawg, did you ever install the oil pan with the level sensor for the cluster?

I did mine and filled with 506 on that change and am afraid i will have really high silicon levels due to the new silicone sealant used.
 

moondawg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Location
Columbus, IN
TDI
2001 Galactic Blue Jetta
david_594 said:
moondawg, did you ever install the oil pan with the level sensor for the cluster?

I did mine and filled with 506 on that change and am afraid i will have really high silicon levels due to the new silicone sealant used.
Alas, not yet. It seems like something is always competing for that money. I should have bought the pan back when it was $80 from ecstuning... now its WAY more expensive.

moondawg
 

SUNRG

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Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Location
Roanoke, VA
TDI
None currently. Previously owned 04 Golf TDI & 05 Passat GLS Wagon TDI
I put a mustang part number amsoil micron air filter on order.
be cautious. if the fit is not absolutely perfect, unfiltered air will make it to your MAF and engine. the OEM "A" filter is so good - and inexpensive - and it lasts so long that comprehensively raising the bar on it will be tough.

whats the cheapest-- best method for pulling a good clean sample?
generally, cheapest and best don't work out to be the same - and oil sampling is no exception. fortunately, there is a free method that's pretty good - just catch a sample directly into the oil sampling container as oil drains from the drain plug. it's not ideal since you are not able to do a container rise like you can when using a $20 sampling pump... and u can never extract intermediate samples. i.e. you can only sample when changing your oil.

if you are going to spend your hard earned $$ on used oil analysis, i highly recommend investing roughly $20 in a vaccuum oil sampling pump like the Amsoil model shown in my previous post. any CAT dealer can also order you a nearly identical pump - also for ~$20. it's worth it!

Would new hose and a large syringe from the vet supply store work?
no, and here's why. when using a sampling pump the fluid (oil) goes directly from the engine to the sampling container. the first "cleansing sample" is then discarded, and then the second sample again goes directly from the engine into the now clean sampling container. transferring from syringe to sampling container is just another two chances to contaminate the sample - plus you have to throw away both the sampling tubing and the syringe every time - too much waste.

by using a sampling pump, only the sampling tube is discarded after every use. the $20 oil sampling vaccuum pump should last forever.

FWIW - every CAT SOS oil analysis kit comes with 10" of sampling tubing.

I was thinking that a Mity Vac would work well also.
i don't know how a mity vac works, but only vaccuum extraction pumps can be used for oil sampling. with mechanincal extraction pumps the fluid being extracted passes through the pump and is contaminated.

by now many of you are probably thinking that i'm overboard anal retentive or something, but used oil lab analysis is science and when the procedure significantly compromises the results, the results can not be used to determine oil condition, performance or the condition of the engine. compromise the procedure and used oil lab analysis is no longer science.

Who did you use for the oil analysis? And where can we order that cool looking amsoil oil sample extractor.
i'm currently using my local CAT fluid analysis lab, just because they're consistent, the lab is less than 2 miles from my office, and they fax results to me the day after i drop off my samples. i've used and like Amsoil / Oil Analyzers too.

regarding the extractor - any CAT dealer / parts supplier. any Amsoil retailer. TDIclub member AndyH will gladly have one sent to you.

sorry to semi-hijack, but how long are most you guys pushing the ELF evo CRV intervals? I used amsoil 5w-30 on my turbo gas flat4 and changed every 10,000 without any problems, but I was way too paranoid to push it any further despite the amsoil 25,000mile rating.
every engine, driver, and driving environment is different. then there's fuel differences, maintenance, etc. etc.. the only way to determine the point at which an oil is no longer performing optimally in your engine is with used oil lab analysis. Elf CRV 506.01 is VW rated for up to 2 yrs / 31,000 miles. with outstanding fuel, a healthy engine and optimal driving conditions i'm sure it could go further...

I did mine and filled with 506 on that change and am afraid i will have really high silicon levels due to the new silicone sealant used.
FWIW - my Si was 6 after roughly 200 miles on Elf CRV after my oil pan change. i sampled ~2000 miles later and Si is now 7 - so it has already stopped leaching in from the sealent (if that was what was happening - and i think it was).
 

moondawg

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Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Location
Columbus, IN
TDI
2001 Galactic Blue Jetta
moondawg said:
Ordered both this morning at 8:44 AM from tdiparts. In the mail at 10:31 AM.

Dan Rocks!
That was Saturday, this is Monday. They were on my doorstep(in Indiana) when I got home!

Outstanding!
 

david_594

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Joined
Feb 28, 2004
Location
Cheshire, CT
TDI
2000 Jetta GLS Silver
I am at 7k miles right now on CRV and just ordered the testing stuff. In like a month and a half or so when I hit 10k I will have a sample out in the mail to the same lab. I ordered the sample extractor so it keeps it clean. My only concern is the new pan and the silicone sealant leaching into the oil.
 

danix

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Oct 5, 2000
Location
Raleigh, NC
TDI
None now. Former: 2011 335d, 2010 Jetta TDI, 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon. 99.5 Jetta TDI, 98 NB TDI, 3 different black 96 Passat TDI wagons.
moondawg said:
That was Saturday, this is Monday. They were on my doorstep(in Indiana) when I got home!

Outstanding!
Thanks Moondawg, we try :)

There was a comment back there that the price of CRV went back down (again) to $13.50. It didn't, list price is still $16.50, but Elf has allowed me to extend my winter sale a bit longer.

What has happened is that I've sold hardly any Solaris LLX (504.00/507.00) since the CRV price is now the same and at least on paper the CRV is the better oil.

I'm going to be switching my wagon (03, ALH) from LDX to CRV at my next oil change and will begin sampling as well.
 
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