Oil additive helps turbo seal?

Tisey06

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Location
Bay Area, Ca.
TDI
Jetta 2000 TDI, Golf 99.5 TDI
I have been using 1 Qt Lucas Syn-Oil additive with Delvac 1 in the last 30,000 miles, only in one of my 2 TDI cars, I do not know but my intake is a lot cleaner now, after so many miles,I guess less oil going through the turbo seals, and the engine for sure sounds a lot quiter and better,,,,, does anyone have mixed oil aditive in a TDI?


I have been using oil aditive in my other vehicles and it has worked, thanks in advance for your replies.
 

dieseldorf

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Oct 11, 2000
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MA
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ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
Tisey06 said:
does anyone have mixed oil aditive in a TDI?
The aftermarket loves the uninformed, those who believe in miracles.
 

Croberts

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Sep 16, 2005
Location
Baraboo, WI
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Jetta, 2003, Silver
Tisey06 said:
I have been using 1 Qt Lucas Syn-Oil additive with Delvac 1 in the last 30,000 miles, only in one of my 2 TDI cars, I do not know but my intake is a lot cleaner now, after so many miles,I guess less oil going through the turbo seals, and the engine for sure sounds a lot quiter and better,,,,, does anyone have mixed oil aditive in a TDI?


I have been using oil aditive in my other vehicles and it has worked, thanks in advance for your replies.

Please explain how an oil additive would have any effect on your intake manifold, unless you are burning oil of course.
 

AndyBees

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May 27, 2003
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Southeast Kentucky
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Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
I don't and never will use "oil additives" in my engines!

Other than for winter service, I have my doubts about fuel additives too!

Is anyone interested in some good land in Florida?
 

Tisey06

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Location
Bay Area, Ca.
TDI
Jetta 2000 TDI, Golf 99.5 TDI
Croberts said:
Please explain how an oil additive would have any effect on your intake manifold, unless you are burning oil of course.



In most cases there is always oil passing through the seal in the turbo in a TDI, so the intake gets dirtier, simple as that.
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
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Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
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2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
IIRC just the opposite is true. When the turbo is generating boost, anything but idle pretty much, there is no oil leaking past.

That's why long idle = bad, driving = good.
 

fursty

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Dec 24, 2006
Location
Webster New York
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Black 2002 Jetta
Bob, I used to test turbos for General Motors and we would measure the oil output around the seal. Under high boost the seal face behind the compressor wheel would lift off the shaft. Even with air pressure on one side of the seal, with so much oil volume on the other side it would cross over to the compressor.
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
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Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
If there is, it's not enough to amount to a hoot. You can go 10K miles without seeing noticable oil level drop and, driven properly, no intake build-up.
 

fursty

Active member
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Location
Webster New York
TDI
Black 2002 Jetta
Every one I came across leaked some minimal rate. More likely over time the shaft would not run true and destroy the seal. I remember trying different suppliers seals and how we would try different positions on the shaft but with the RPM's we have here it was pretty hard to get that perfect seal. And your are right it is not much. But it was a lot of fun and loud.
 

AlanZ

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Nov 6, 2010
Location
Kansas
TDI
01 Jetta
If an ALH is grossly over filled w oil. Say 2.5 quarts. Is it possible to have the turbo seals blow and allowing engine to run away. Non TDI mechanic reviewed engine post 3 second RJ. Away and said car had 2.5 qts too much oil. No diesel in the oil. Thoughts?
 

Mongler98

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98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
Oh man, this thread is gold. Rofl
I love these snake oil noob threads from last decade while owners do dumb stuff out of ignorance to their cars so we few who still have them can learn how not to destroy good stuff!

Also 2.5 quarts? So many reasons why this is bad, not just for a runaway, your probably scavenging all that oil up through the ccv
Stay away from shade tree mechanics, they dont know Jack squat
 

Powder Hound

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Under a Bridge, Crestview, FL, USA
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If an ALH is grossly over filled w oil. Say 2.5 quarts. Is it possible to have the turbo seals blow and allowing engine to run away. Non TDI mechanic reviewed engine post 3 second RJ. Away and said car had 2.5 qts too much oil. No diesel in the oil. Thoughts?
As above, the turbocharger won't fail due to overfilling. The turbocharger has a supply of oil provided by the oil pump, and will get sufficient oil as long as the pump is operating properly and there is sufficient oil.

Where the trouble happens is, as mentioned above, is oil blowing up through the CCV. The other real problem would be the piston rings. If there is too much oil thrashing around in the block, the piston rings might not be able to handle the load and they might break. There is a lesser danger of oil seals being blown out as well.

Just figure that the dipstick is there for a reason. And so is the oil changing procedure. Since it is very difficult to ensure the oil filter canister is perfectly filled when replacing the filter, and that most oil changers don't suck the used oil out of the oil cooler, the method of filling after a change is to add 4 quarts, start and run the engine for a few minutes, then shut down, wait a few minutes, then check and top up the oil.

An overfilled engine, that that extent, would require immediate drainage of the excess oil. It would also require a visit to whomever changed the oil to plant your foot firmly up their anal sphincter.

Cheers,

PH
 

AlanZ

Member
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Nov 6, 2010
Location
Kansas
TDI
01 Jetta
Powder Hound - thank you for reply. Errors occurred on top off ... no need to toss anyone under the bus. Life lesson, costly learning curve for a young driver attempting to do the right thing.

Back to mechanicals ... the excess oil blow through the cylinder theory is an option. But that wouldn’t define the oil found in the inter cooler. Not excessive although wet. 280k miles later ... I hear they all get a little wet as some oil slips through the turbo. The core question is can excessive oil level allow more than the traditional small amount to seek through the turbo?

I’m trying to determine if the turbo is completely in need of replacement.

Again - many thanks for feedback.
 

KLXD

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Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
Oil in the intake system is normal and most of what you see is from the crankcase vent. TC's leak but not much unless they're going bad.

Too much oil being hit by the crank's going to cause some extra to be blown out the crankcase vent and into the intake where it'll get burned. Too much might cause a runaway.

That didn't happen so I wouldn't worry about it. I doubt 3 quarts extra would hit the crank. That amounts to what? Less than an inch too high?
 

Powder Hound

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... But that wouldn’t define the oil found in the inter cooler. Not excessive although wet. 280k miles later ... I hear they all get a little wet as some oil slips through the turbo. The core question is can excessive oil level allow more than the traditional small amount to seek through the turbo?
I’m trying to determine if the turbo is completely in need of replacement.
Again - many thanks for feedback.
A small amount of oil will seep past the impeller seal. This is normal. Since the turbocharger spins very fast, and the temperatures are very high, a normal neoprene type seal that would eliminate all oil leakage is not possible. Instead, they use what is called a labyrinth seal. It allows a seal to happen, while not perfect, it works well and allows nearly frictionless seal operation past 100k (yes, more than 100,000) rpms, which is where the turbocharger will operate sometimes.

When the turbocharger isn't working hard, the charge air pressure in the impeller is low, and that is when some oil will seep past the seal. It isn't a large amount.

As has been mentioned above, the CCV vapors are far more likely to be the source of the condensate you are finding downstream of the turbocharger. The vapors come in, condense in the intercooler, and can pool there a bit when the engine shuts down. What you get as condensate are oil vapors, combustion byproducts, and water. There wouldn't be enough to cause a runaway.

If run well, the accumulation will not be excessive. If the engine is always run gently and never ever gets floored, then you can have more buildup. I ran into one where the owner complained about it 'surging' on startup. I found that on startup, the rpms would surge up and down about 100-200 rpms worth. I did a timing belt job on that car (which is why I was there) and drained quite a bit out of the intercooler when I disconnected the lower hose. After the job was finished, we fired it up and I then ran it up and down the street outside the subdivision and fogged it for mosquitoes at the same time. I doubt my efforts were appreciated however, as it was Phoenix in December where mosquitoes aren't really a problem. But the surging went away after the blowout.

Just remember that paying attention to the engine oil level will tell you whether there is excessive oil leakage past the turbocharger seals. A failed turbocharger will cause heavy smoking and the oil level will indicate a consumption of oil faster than the fuel. There will be no question. If it happens, you shut down immediately and don't bother looking for a convenient place to pull off the road or try to make it home. That would be a disaster. If you have to, leaving it in gear and hitting the brakes to stop would work.

If you are getting boost when needed, the oil level is stable, and the exhaust is not driving a petition to kick you out of the neighborhood, you're fine.

Cheers,

PH
 

AndyBees

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These old Threads are still in the system for a reason!

Obviously, the most recent OP did some searching! .... and got a few good responses!
 

BobnOH

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central Ohio
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I'm a firm believer in recycling threads. Imagine if we only had hundreds instead of thousands of threads. Others completely disagree.
 

jokila

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I also was under the impression when you have too much oil it gets whipped up by the crankshaft and causes it to aerate. This aerated oil can get sucked up and not supply the solid and constant oil supply needed, especially at higher RPMS.

Most synthetic oils have additives. Why add more? !
 

Mongler98

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Too much oil and you will "hydrolock" the bottom end.
 

AndyBees

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But, keep in mind that the Oil Pump Sprocket and Chain are basically submerged spinning in oil and that the Sprayers are constantly fogging the bottoms of the pistons. And, as the crankshaft spins oil pressure is pushing oil out at the sides of the four rod and five main bearings all the while oil is dripping down from the drain-back holes in the block & head and side of the block where the Turbo return oil enters.

Yeah, there's a point an engine can be over full on oil. I doubt it is 2 quarts over spec. When the engine is started, all the above is put in motion which lowers the level in the oil pan considerably. So, I doubt the top end (CCV puke) has a clue the engine is overfilled with oil or does the Turbo. The spinning Cam Shaft Lobes contribute tremendously to the oil mist in the blow-by and being overfull doesn't affect the top-end.

I run close to 7 quarts in the ALH in my Vanagon, mostly due to the custom oil pan. The oil pump only pumps so much, overfull will not cause it to pump more up to the top.
 

Mongler98

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98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
i agree, dont think any harm would come from just a few quarts more.
my sbc350 build has a HD oil pump (idles at 80psi) you have to over fill the pan due to the pump putting more oil up on the heads, i have to run 1.25 quarts MORE
 
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