Official: SFBA Dyno Day 4/10

[Gary Miyakawa]

Whew... Glad the pickup device is working ! Have a great time guys ! Make sure and get a diskette of all the runs !!

Gary M

 

[VelvetFoot]

And somehow stay upwind! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[ChugBug]

Hey guys, I had to go to work early so I'll be able to get out early to meet up and caravan. I'll see you between 7:30 and 7:50 at the Bartnes and Noble! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Jolene

 

[GassinGerhard]

I'll catch up with you guys in San Ramon. Hillsdale Mall's kinda outta the way for me. I'll stop by the Store along the way for potluck munchies.

Reinstalled my tuning box today and didn't notice any power gains or increase in smoke. Exhaust temps didn't increase either. CEL came on faster than usual though.

See y'all at 9:00 am.

 

[Peter Cheuk]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, here are some details for this Saturday:

We will have a caravan meeting at the Barnes and Noble in the Hillsdale Mall, 408 Hillsdale Mall, San Mateo, Ca, at 7:30 am. We will leave no later than 8am, since the dyno runs will start promptly at 9am. It will be about a 30 to 40 minute drive to the dyno place.

<snip>

Dan

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, if anyone has an FRS radio, bring it and tune into channel 1 sub 9 (get it? 1.9...).

I'll try to remember to bring my laptop with the VAG-COM software on it.

 

[Pcar993]

First D, i see you live near Disneyland. I live near 6 flags magic mountain. Would you be interested in caravaning together? My # is 818-363-6715. Let me know asap otherwise we can go our seperate ways.

thanks
Shawn

 

[Hesh]

Like Gary, I'll meet you all in San Ramone. Shooting for noon or so.

Chris

 

[mackwood]

just wanted to say I had a great time. good food and good people. we'll have to do this again..

 

[Ian46]

I would like to thank everbody for making us feel at home from the moment we got to the shop. Had an outstanding time. Made the drive well worth it. Definately have to do it again. Got too love those .216's huh? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[ChugBug]

I also had a fabulous time and got to be queen of the dyno for all of like...3 cars /images/graemlins/tongue.gif But it was fun /images/graemlins/smile.gif Thanks Ray for letting all our TDIs take over your shop for a day and for feeding us, and thanks Dan for setting this up for us. I think we should do this again in say January when the weather is cooler, what do you all say?

Jolene

 

[peter pyce]

We just got home with Gary. It was a great car day and boy did we learn a lot! Thanks Ray and Dan for putting this together and as our Queen said, we shuold do it again, but with less than 90 degree around....... This said, I want a Corvette now /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[jackbombay]

Who won? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

-Jack

 

[peter pyce]

What is your prediction, Jack? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif Come on, bets are open!

 

[jackbombay]

[ QUOTE ]
What is your prediction, Jack? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif Come on, bets are open!

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not familiar with all the cars of everyone that was there, but Dlai's car is where I would put my money!

-Jack

 

[Norman]

[ QUOTE ]
... but Dlai's car is where I would put my money!

[/ QUOTE ]


Wow! That's pretty good for someone who doesn't know everyone's car. /images/graemlins/cool.gif I do believe you're correct, but, I'll leave it to the actual participants to post up their numbers and such, and let the bragging rights begin.. LOL!

In the meantime, let's see if I can drag some pics out of my camera just to say we actually did this. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Thanks to everyone who made the trek out to San Ramon; it was great seeing oldbies and newbies, and special thanks to Dan and Ray for putting together a great gtg and reminiscing about the ol' SynOpt days. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[peter pyce]

Yup, Dan was "Da Man" on the Dyno! Ray is going to e-mail us the one thousand files from the whole day and as soon as we get them, they will be posted. But I must say, generally was a pretty disappointing from "numbers" point of view, because EVERYBODY dynoed a lot less than expected. My wild guess is that the near 90 degree temp was the main factor for the "power loss" but who really knows. The usual high numbers we see from other people in other states seemed like an unthinkable dream yesterday......

 

[Pcar993]

[ QUOTE ]
Yup, Dan was "Da Man" on the Dyno! Ray is going to e-mail us the one thousand files from the whole day and as soon as we get them, they will be posted. But I must say, generally was a pretty disappointing from "numbers" point of view, because EVERYBODY dynoed a lot less than expected. My wild guess is that the near 90 degree temp was the main factor for the "power loss" but who really knows. The usual high numbers we see from other people in other states seemed like an unthinkable dream yesterday......

[/ QUOTE ]

Just want to say thanks again to everyone. I'm glad i took the trip to meet you guys. Very knowledgeable TDI'ers!! I've been on many meets before with other cars, but this is by far the best car meet ive ever been to.

I talked to Ray and he said the HP and Trq. # are not SAE corrected. Most DYNO runs that ive been to are SAE corrected which means it considers altitude (which in our case was only 400ft), humidity (which was none), and temp.(which killed everyones power) and adjusts the HP and TRq. with simple mathematics accordingly. Usually with a factor of 0 SAE, the temp. is around 65-69deg. In our case, the intake temp. was nearly 90 deg. therefore the HP and Trq. reading was off compared to 65 deg. intake. If these HP and TRq. # were SAE corrected, it would be slightly more. But since we are truthful and sometimes truth hurts and dont want to be seen, our dyno runs were with out SAE correction /images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[mackwood]

shawn, did you finally get those injectors in. how are they? big difference???

 

[peter pyce]

While awaiting for the files to arrive, I would like to take some time and introduce (to those who could not come) the cheapest ever power mod for our cars...... Here it is in flashy red, only for your eyes:

The device can contain good quantity of pretty cheap "waterilis coldilis" (found pretty easy around the globe). Once finger pressure is applied on the lever, the spray effect occurs (as shown in the picture). If said spray is directed towards the intercooler of a TDI, the effect is that certain graphs on certain dunometers start raising to about a maximum of 5 HP to the wheel of the given TDI. Isn't it the cheapest and easiest 5 HP ever? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Oh, and this one is DYNO PROVEN! LOL /images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[dlai]

Wow!!! That was some day! I want to thank everyone for the great turnout! A very special thanks from all of us at the tdiclub to Ray Razon at Dyno Labs for being such a wonderful host! For many, it was the first time they had seen a dyno in action, and I'm sure it will be something they will remember for sometime! Too bad the weather was a bit on the hot side, and the resulting dyno numbers were not what everyone was expecting, but it is still an indication of what our cars can do. Ray will be sending me the dyno numbers and results soon, so we'll be posting all the dyno graphs for your viewing pleasure. For me, the highlight was not the dyno runs, but rather seeing Ray give Peter Pyce a few rides in his Corvette ZR1. Ray is a local autocross champ, and demostrated those skills with Peter in the passenger's seat. To see the look on Peter's face after those rides was, as they say, Priceless!!! LOL!!!!

So Peter can remember what caused him to almost wet his pants, here's some pics of what he rode in:

Thanks again to everyone for the great day, and stay tuned for some pics from Norman and the actual graphs of the dyno runs...

Dan

 

[peter pyce]

Yeah, someone even managed to capture those memorable moments ........ This is the side effect one may get if taken a ride in Corvettes, when the owner actually can drive.

 

[Pcar993]

[ QUOTE ]
shawn, did you finally get those injectors in. how are they? big difference???

[/ QUOTE ]

Jason, I wish you stayed longer to see it! Im not the type that says "OOOHHhh i just installed an intake system and it feels like 15 HP." Im more of the type that needs a supercharger to say yeah its a little bit faster now.

With that said, the pp520's were very impressive. My butt dyno says it was closer in speed compared to your car?? Yeah i dont think its possible but then again you asked if i had a chip or injectors on my stock car when we were testing the MAF. Soo it might be different on my car. I wish i dynoed it but by the time i got home, it was 2am /images/graemlins/frown.gif

We all gotta meet up one day at a drag strip and race 1/4 mile. That will tell us a bit more.

It was kewl meeting you. Will you be going to the timing belt change in a month?

 

[Pcar993]

I know im going to get yelled at for doing this stupid thing but here it goes...
On the way back home from the DYNO shop, this black colored lowered with an exhaust VR6 GTI Mk4 hits me up.... I dont know how many of you guys have been on the 5 freeway but this one part is straight for 40 miles. We both floor it at 80mph, i was right behind him all the way up to 120mph. He wasnt pulling away nor was i gaining up on him. It was dead even. I pull next to him and he gives me a hugee thumbs up. I make sure i go in front of him so he can see my sticker on the rear window that says "Yes, it's a diesel!" He was pretty surprised and the rolled down his window to give me a thumbs up /images/graemlins/smile.gif With the stock injectors, i max out at 95mph. With the pp520, it easily pulled up to 120mph /images/graemlins/smile.gif

i also saw the new R32 on the way back home /images/graemlins/smile.gif What a day to complete my road trip.

Moral of the story and i know i should have followed it, dont speed recklessly.

 

[peter pyce]

You take out those 18" sticky donuts, and you may feel like you got chipped too! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[First D]

Just think what would have happened if you had a chip and 15" Avus wheels!

As I mentioned on to you guys at Dyno Day, on the way up I outpulled a 1.8T Jetta sedan (and a Dodge Intrepid...) to 120. Remember I have worse aerodynamics and 150 extra lbs (wagon)...

I just took a leisurely drive back home, going 72 mph. I'm going to make this practice if I leave the Bay Area on Sunday because it's much more relaxing to have people pass you rather than try to rush home weaving in and out of traffic. With the requisite "pedal to the metal" on the Gilroy and Grapevine hills (literally leaving a Dodge Cummins dually in the dust) I averaged 47.1 mpgs. On the way up (80+ mph plus dyno day runs) I averaged 40 mpgs. So I think if I decide to use the extra power of the injectors and chip I will lose about 2 mpgs or so...

And regarding that "clunk". I was driving on rather bumpy street and had my window down. I hit this bump and I hear "Piiing!" and the sound of metal slowly rolling away. I stop to get something to eat, check out the front end and find the bolt that connects the sway bar to the drop link has sheared off. But at least it doesn't clunk any more...

 

[Peter Cheuk]

[ QUOTE ]
...regarding that "clunk". I was driving on rather bumpy street and had my window down. I hit this bump and I hear "Piiing!" and the sound of metal slowly rolling away. I stop to get something to eat, check out the front end and find the bolt that connects the sway bar to the drop link has sheared off. But at least it doesn't clunk any more...

[/ QUOTE ] [Homer Simpson voice]DOH![/voice]

Yes, I'm replying late to this! Yesterday was fun. We need to do this again in the winter. Hopefully, I will have some newfound power by then to test out. Thanks to Dan for organizing the event, Ray for hosting, providing the facilities, and feeding us, and everybody for putting up with my kids while they terrorized the area. /images/graemlins/eek.gif

 

[Ian46]

Ok, I didnt want to admit this but after riding in Jason's jetta, Shawn's newly improved golf, and Dan's "Smoking beast!" I almost started to cry when I got on the freeway to go home. It was really sad excelerating onto the on ramp. I didnt want to hurt the cars feelings so I didnt say anything then, but I need UPGRADES! My girlfriend agrees. Anyways as Dan says "its a saftey thing" /images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Norman]

Hey, I'm really sorry it took so long to extract pics and upload, but, here are some to spectate (and speculate) on...

Here's one of Dlai's and Pcar993's Jetta & Golf right after we got to Dyno Labs:

Another shot of Pcar993's Golf; uhh, Shawn, where's the 993???! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Another pic before the dyno runs, this of SCruzBill's stock Jetta, who served as our baseline (hey, Bill, don't it run great with a MAF that's working? /images/graemlins/wink.gif)

Here're some piezo device hookup pics; pretty ingenious, whoever thought this up...

OK, here's where it gets repetitive because, face it, there's only one position our cars can be in for a dyno run...

Bogstomper's A3 Jetta getting chocked by Ray(L) and Dlai(R)

Here's PCheuk's A3, vying for A3 honors on the day

Here're a couple of shots of the Queen Bee-tle getting set up for action

Here're are a couple pics of Dlai's Jetta; it's a real sleeper

This is Eetsoot's Jetta

Last, but not least, GassinGerhard's Golf with the OZ wheels

There were quite a few cars I missed, so I hope others might have some pics or video clips to add to this collection. It'll be interesting to see what the corrected SAE figures are for this run. My only suggestion is to go see if NASA/Ames has a dyno set up in their windtunnel so you can at least duplicate ram air @ 90 MPH (or whatever redline is in 4th gear) /images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Hesh]

Here's my report of the day's testing.

Disclaimer first: I am providing data and my subjective observations, that is all. I am not endorsing one product over another.

I originally wanted to do my own plotting (with Excel), but was unable to get ascii data, so instead I used the dyno display tool/app and used the best run of the three configurations tested.

Some things to note first:

1) Almost everybody had lower expected peak HP/torque; we are not sure why, but speculate temperature is a factor.

2) We had noticable differences between identical setups. Some of this might be accounted for by different tire sizes, but I doubt that is the only factor. This is why I don't take comparisons between vehicles and locations very seriously. In fact...

3) I had noticeable differences between my own runs, with no changes! I.e., we ran two back-to-back runs; the second was always lower. This is probably due to heat soak of the intercooler. The difference was big enough to wipe out the gains from going to bigger injectors, even!

I am plotting actual HP/torque, not corrected. Since I am making comparisons on my car with a single change between each set of runs, only the differences matter here, not absolute values.

My "baseline" setup is Upsolute + B205 (bought 2 years ago from a shop in England, same part number as the Euro 110 HP 1.9). The Upsolute chip is "normal", i.e. not modified for big injectors.

This first graph shows what happens when you switch to PP520's. Observe that up to 1900 RPM, the B205's do better than the PP520's. The PP520's overtake for a short time, then B205's retake the lead, but then from 2400 RPM and on, the PP520's are in the lead, though by a very small margin. "001" is B205, "003" is PP520.

The second graph compares B205's and B203's (aka "B216", or the "new, improved" B216). Observe that up to nearly 2500 RPM the B205's are in the lead, by quite a clear margin even. From there until about 3500 RPM, they swap places twice. After 3500 RPM, the B203's are in the lead, though not exactly by a commanding lead due to an odd perturbation around 4200 RPM. "001" is B205, "008" is B203.

The last graph below puts PP520's and B203's side-by-side. Observe that the B203's are ahead of the PP520's up to 1800 RPM, but only by a small margin. PP520's take a wide lead from there until 2300 RPM. There is some nearly equal performance for the next 500 RPM or so, then PP520's take the lead until about 3300 RPM. There is again parity for about 500 RPM, then the B203's take the lead until 4100 RPM. There are two more swaps after that. "003" is PP520, "008" is B203.

The smoke levels were also noted during each run. While this is a subjective comparison, the four eyeballs watching were all in agreement so I think our observations are valid. For the purpose of comparison, I'll call "0" to be no smoke, and "10" to be the most smoke I ever saw on my vehicle that day.

The B205's had a short burst of smoke at level 8, then quickly tapered off to a steady 5 for nearly the remainder of the run, but ended at about 6. While I didn't watch the RPM gauge, I'm guessing that the smokey part was everything up to the peak torque RPM. (Same goes for the others.) The PP520's had a burst of 10, then tapered off to 8 for a while, then back up to 9 at the end. The B203's had a burst of 9, then quickly tapered to 4 and gradually reduced to about 2 until the end of the run. One final observation is that the PP520's had a somewhat more "chunky" appearance to the smoke, whereas the B205's and B203's had consistent density.

There is one more test to make, which is mileage comparisons. I have been getting fairly consistent 40-41 mpg for the last 6 months or so with the B205's. I'll report back when I have completed a tank or two of the B203's.

Thanks to Dan for setting this up, and to Ray for the use of his shop, and to Norman for helping everybody get set up.

Chris

 

[jsrmonster]

Great Job guys! I wish I could have been there. It's just amazing to see how some cars really light up on the rollers. We should figure out a way to plot fuel temp and IAT to include in our corrected SAE BHP figures.

Keep up the good work on the west coast.

btw I was at the east coast shore gtg, and getting phone updates from Peter Pyce and also Kerma who was at the track struggling with getting his ride dialed in

Nice pics too. I remember seeing the 800hp Corvettes at the NE Dyno day, and wondering why we were there. hehehe

Jeff