Off Road Diesel/Home Heating Oil Cetain Level?

tdihopeful

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Location
California
TDI
03 2dr 5sp Golf
I was wondering if the Quality of Off Road Diesel is different than Taxed "on road" fuel. Cetain rating for example and if this would affect a TDI as far as engine operation. I am not advocating using Off Road Diesel for on road use I am asking this question for educational purposes.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Yep, it comes from the same place. They just add the dye at the point of sale batch when it gets loaded into the tanker truck usually, although some get mixed on site. Just depends on the local distributor and what amounts of fuel they are delivering.

The place in town where we buy the fuel for our farm equipment adds the dye in after they fill both tanks (on and off road). One time the "new guy" added it to BOTH tanks, and it took better part of a year to slowly get all the dye purged out of the on road tank. Station had to grant vouchers for people filling their on road cars and trucks with it in case they got "caught" but I never have been asked.
 

oilhammer

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Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
When the ULSD rollout finally happened, late as it was, they concentrated most of their efforts in on road diesel, since anything equipped with a DPF specifically requires it. Most off road diesels around 2007-8 didn't yet have them. But now a lot of them do, so the necessity of ULSD for off road applications is such that it makes little sense to brew up two different fuels. Plus, ULSD can work perfectly fine in any diesel without a DPF. Our 2005 model Kubota tractor's big 3.3L prechamber 4 cyl non-turbo diesel (which is literally a late 1960's design with a couple tweaks from the late 1970's) is happy to run it.
 

jettawreck

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Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
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2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
When MN went to the 5-10% bio mandate many years ago now, I spoke to the local wholesale distributor (and they also have a retail and bulk delivery side) as to if the off-road would be bio also. His response was that the county and state off road vehicles and equipment were legally required to use bio and since they wouldn't be able to keep deliveries and pump sales seperate all the off road (and even heating oil) would just be the same bio blend as the highway use fuel.
Since it was basically the same exact fuel blend off road/highway use I think it's safe to assume the cetane values are also the same.
 

GlowBugTDI

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Jul 20, 2018
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Cambridge, MN
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2001 Beetle GLS TDI (BIODSL). Glow Bug TDI (sold)
I have wondered this question in the past, so thank you for asking tdihopeful!

Now the question is how much 2 stroke oil does it take to tun it a different color?
Or, by what process can the dye be extracted/removed.
For educational purposes of course (off road tdi).
 

jettawreck

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Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
I have wondered this question in the past, so thank you for asking tdihopeful!

Now the question is how much 2 stroke oil does it take to tun it a different color?
Or, by what process can the dye be extracted/removed.
For educational purposes of course (off road tdi).
I have "heard" that a container of dyed diesel placed out in the sun a few days will remove the visible color dye from it but not sure if the exhaust scanners can still pick up the trace or not.
Green colorant cancels red (at least in my paint mixing/matching days). So perhaps a bunch of green tint two stroke oil might cancel some red dye but it won't " erase" the red, just create a gray shade perhaps. Stricky theoritically speaking, of course.
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
When MN went to the 5-10% bio mandate many years ago now, I spoke to the local wholesale distributor (and they also have a retail and bulk delivery side) as to if the off-road would be bio also. His response was that the county and state off road vehicles and equipment were legally required to use bio and since they wouldn't be able to keep deliveries and pump sales seperate all the off road (and even heating oil) would just be the same bio blend as the highway use fuel.
Since it was basically the same exact fuel blend off road/highway use I think it's safe to assume the cetane values are also the same.
interesting, I know my buddy that runs a rock quarry has said that they can specifically request no biodiesel in their red that they have delivered to their bulk tanks
it actually comes out cheaper and they have less problems with tarred up fuel filters, win-win
 

turbodieseldyke

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Jun 6, 2010
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Free Mustache Rides
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98 jetta
Now the question is how much 2 stroke oil does it take to tun it a different color?
Or, by what process can the dye be extracted/removed.
For educational purposes of course (off road tdi).
Years ago, I saw a British guy on TV who made his living by doing all sorts of things of an "educational purposes" manner. One of those things was buying dyed #2, removing the dye, and selling it to neighbours at a cheaper price than the gas station. He had a barrel of cat litter in his garage, poured the coloured fuel in the top, and out the spigot at the bottom, it came out clear. They didn't say how many gallons the cat litter could process, before it became saturated and no longer absorbed new dye. Also didn't say how he disposed of the old litter.

[edited for UK spelling. Why not.]
 
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GlowBugTDI

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Years ago, I saw a British guy on TV who made his living by doing all sorts of things of an "educational purposes" manner. One of those things was buying dyed #2, removing the dye, and selling it to neighbors at a cheaper price than the gas station. He had a barrel of cat litter in his garage, poured the colored fuel in the top, and out the spigot at the bottom, it came out clear. They didn't say how many gallons the cat litter could process, before it became saturated and no longer absorbed new dye. Also didn't say how he disposed of the old litter.
Very interesting! I would be curious to research this more and see what i find.
 

jettawreck

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Joined
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Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
interesting, I know my buddy that runs a rock quarry has said that they can specifically request no biodiesel in their red that they have delivered to their bulk tanks
it actually comes out cheaper and they have less problems with tarred up fuel filters, win-win
It may vary per distributor and I'm sure if you placed a large private order they could/would accommodated it provided knowing none would be going into state/county owned equipment.
 

oilhammer

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outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
They have a UV dye that is in there in addition to the visible red stuff. That is much more difficult to remove. That is why the DOT guys will carry what looks like a little flashlight and shine it into the tank (same type we use here for refrigerant leak detection).
 

GlowBugTDI

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2001 Beetle GLS TDI (BIODSL). Glow Bug TDI (sold)
They have a UV dye that is in there in addition to the visible red stuff. That is much more difficult to remove. That is why the DOT guys will carry what looks like a little flashlight and shine it into the tank (same type we use here for refrigerant leak detection).
I have heard of this. I would be interested in shining a light on the stuff we have here to know if there is
 
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jettawreck

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Northern Minnesota-55744
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2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
I have heard of this. I would be interested in shining a light on the stuff we have here to know if there is
They have the ability to detect it in exhaust particles also I believe. It's not worth the risk as the fines are astronomical and in addition it involves evading taxation. Those guys can be ruthless.
 

[486]

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MN
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02 golf ALH
They have the ability to detect it in exhaust particles also I believe. It's not worth the risk as the fines are astronomical and in addition it involves evading taxation. Those guys can be ruthless.
even the joker doesn't mess with the IRS
tax man has a very long history of burning people out and shooting those that run for their lives
 

GlowBugTDI

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They have the ability to detect it in exhaust particles also I believe. It's not worth the risk as the fines are astronomical and in addition it involves evading taxation. Those guys can be ruthless.
Do you know if they do exhaust tests here in MN? I have only heard of trucks getting dipped... and you have to be careful what you tell them about the stuff your hauling
 

jettawreck

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Aug 2, 2004
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Northern Minnesota-55744
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Do you know if they do exhaust tests here in MN? I have only heard of trucks getting dipped... and you have to be careful what you tell them about the stuff your hauling
I have heard of exhaust test scans but have no firsthand or credible reports.
My cousin has had his (since went back to gas) prior F250 dip tested a couple times. It was a few years ago quite common locally because there are so many logging and construction support vehicles running around with off road tanks in the beds that were/are using dyed off-road fuel. State patrol would set up mobile random check/testing points and wave in the chosen vehicles.
Don't see it anymore, perhaps it's done mostly at weigh check stations.
 

Mozambiquer

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I've seen them dipping here. They actually were stopping people right in front of our shop and checking their tanks. My boss went out and talked to them and they were impressed because they didn't find any red diesel in any trucks. My boss told them that they just didn't get the right guys, as we see plenty of people come in with red diesel. We're not obligated to report, but the inspector said "if you have a customer that doesn't like to pay or gives you problems..." I've called the DOT on trucks that leave that are unsafe. Most often brake problems, as my family and friends are out there on the road, and an 18 wheeler with bad brakes is not good to be on the road.
 

crazyrunner33

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NC
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Do you know if they do exhaust tests here in MN? I have only heard of trucks getting dipped... and you have to be careful what you tell them about the stuff your hauling
Lol, I don't think you have to worry about DOT dipping your VW's tank if you accidentally spilled your kool-aid in it. If you had a diesel truck, yeah, they might dip your tank if you live in a farming area. Farm trucks are a bigger target because they're often equipped with aux tanks, the fines are based on capacity. If highway patrol thinks they're going to get a big fine out of you, they'll likely ask to search your car first before checking your tank.

If you are paranoid about it, keep your back bumper clean, remove the TDI badges and shut the engine off when pulled over. Change your own fuel filters as well, they will be stained.
 

Mozambiquer

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1998 VW Jetta TDI. 1982 VW Rabbit pickup, 2001 VW Jetta TDI, 2005 VW Passat wagon TDI X3, 2001 VW golf TDI, 1980 VW rabbit pickup,
Lol, I don't think you have to worry about DOT dipping your VW's tank if you accidentally spilled your kool-aid in it. If you had a diesel truck, yeah, they might dip your tank if you live in a farming area. Farm trucks are a bigger target because they're often equipped with aux tanks, the fines are based on capacity. If highway patrol thinks they're going to get a big fine out of you, they'll likely ask to search your car first before checking your tank.

If you are paranoid about it, keep your back bumper clean, remove the TDI badges and shut the engine off when pulled over. Change your own fuel filters as well, they will be stained.
Yeah they probably won't pull over any cars for it, though I'll just keep using the correct fuel.
 

GlowBugTDI

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Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2001 Beetle GLS TDI (BIODSL). Glow Bug TDI (sold)
I have heard of exhaust test scans but have no firsthand or credible reports.
My cousin has had his (since went back to gas) prior F250 dip tested a couple times. It was a few years ago quite common locally because there are so many logging and construction support vehicles running around with off road tanks in the beds that were/are using dyed off-road fuel. State patrol would set up mobile random check/testing points and wave in the chosen vehicles.
Don't see it anymore, perhaps it's done mostly at weigh check stations.
Same here. Its pretty common for farmers to have bed tanks
 

GlowBugTDI

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2001 Beetle GLS TDI (BIODSL). Glow Bug TDI (sold)
Lol, I don't think you have to worry about DOT dipping your VW's tank if you accidentally spilled your kool-aid in it. If you had a diesel truck, yeah, they might dip your tank if you live in a farming area. Farm trucks are a bigger target because they're often equipped with aux tanks, the fines are based on capacity. If highway patrol thinks they're going to get a big fine out of you, they'll likely ask to search your car first before checking your tank.

If you are paranoid about it, keep your back bumper clean, remove the TDI badges and shut the engine off when pulled over. Change your own fuel filters as well, they will be stained.

Tempting lol, but my car does just scream im diesel a lil bit. It was something i started with my last car, and now it shifted to this one.
 

Andyinchville1

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2003 Jetta TDI wagon, 5 sp, 226K miles
Maybe try mixing with black diesel .... it's cheaper than red anyways .... just call it an additive tho to be "safe" (additives are not taxed (road tax) fuels are).
 
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