Odds of breaking a ceramic glowplug

[supton]

I think I'm going to give in and have 'em done soon. Just ordered a set of the 7V plugs; never had the recall done so it's the OEM 7V ceramics. My understanding is that this will likely work; worst case I have to send the ECU out for reflash (time for a tune?). I'm hoping to avoid that, as it's the original clutch, and I'd like to leave it that way.

Anyhow, as I budget for this (and some brake work) I'm wondering if the odds are good for it to not break. [My plans is to hike it to a guru, I'm not touching this.]

 

[zukvw]

depends on what kind of work you've before on your car, i replaced mine no big deal. i think there is a tread on it even. anyway just spray some penetrating oil on them a couple hrs before removal. they are just like taking out spark plugs, just make sure once you break them loose unscrew them by hand with the socket, once you are sure its loose take off the socket and gently pull it out. on occasion they will get suck, apparently the can sewll over time, mine werent like this and all went smooth. inspect each one as you remove it, paying close attention todamage.personally its so important to take your time doing this, i wouldnt trust anyone but myself doing it. you really shoud have a pretty easy job, i just replace them one at a time, i used the new style ceramic tipped plugs as to not mess with start times etc. goodluck

 

[halocline]

I can't believe I"m writing this, but why not take it to a dealer and let them do the recall? They'll replace the old 7V bosch with the new 7V NGKs and do a reflash which is supposed to be pretty good. Just install a hidden camera on the underside of your hood so you can watch them take the old ones out. You might even find a reasonable dealer who would you take the old ones out....ahh forget it, you're right....

 

[ecarnell]

I can't believe I"m writing this, but why not take it to a dealer and let them do the recall? They'll replace the old 7V bosch with the new 7V NGKs and do a reflash which is supposed to be pretty good. Just install a hidden camera on the underside of your hood so you can watch them take the old ones out. You might even find a reasonable dealer who would you take the old ones out....ahh forget it, you're right....

My recommendation also (not the camera part)....
Give them some good soaking of penetrating oil for a couple of nights before bringing it in - ask to see all four upon removal (I actually put a dab of nail polish on them to make sure they were mine they showed me)....

 

[n1das]

I think I'm going to give in and have 'em done soon. Just ordered a set of the 7V plugs; never had the recall done so it's the OEM 7V ceramics. My understanding is that this will likely work; worst case I have to send the ECU out for reflash (time for a tune?). I'm hoping to avoid that, as it's the original clutch, and I'd like to leave it that way.

Anyhow, as I budget for this (and some brake work) I'm wondering if the odds are good for it to not break. [My plans is to hike it to a guru, I'm not touching this.]

I recommend sticking to your original plan. Hike it down to mrchill in Braintree and get it done. Have him send your ECU out to Jeff (Rocketchip) and get RC1+ tuning with the first recall (5V) steel GPs so you can stay completely away from those "time bomb" ceramic GPs. Have mrchill install the 5V steel GPs instead. Your (stock) clutch should be fine with RC1+ tuning.

RC1+ tuning gives you a nice bump in power but gently rolls into it around the torque peak RPM range to be nice to the clutch. The higher level tunes (RC2,2+,3, etc.) are more aggressive at the torque peak and your clutch probably won't handle it.

I have the first recall (5V) steel GPs with RC3 tuning in my 05 ATD PD JWagen. The steel GPs work well in the cold with proper tuning. I've had no problems starting it in cold weather. VW failed with this recall but Rocketchip got it right. RC FTW!!

Good luck.

 

[supton]

I've thought about getting an RC, but between clutch fears and the fear of the head coming off ($$$$) I've been trying to limit the damage as much to my wallet as to the car. So I ordered the 7V ones from idparts; if they go in ok but give a CEL then I'll send the ECU out for reflash & maybe RC1. IIRC, the 7V ones currently have a metal sleeve over them for this issue.

 

[halocline]

They do, but there's still a sizable ceramic tip. I have the 5V steelies and if it ever gets cold here I might get a tune. My only concern with the 5Vs is that they might become obselete and hard to find, although someone, maybe Oilhammer, mentioned that they're used in lots of other cars so they'll be around.

I think some people have reported simply replacing the old 7V ceramics with the new and having it work out fine...at least for a while. It will take a few seasons to determine if there's something in the old programming that might shorten the life of the new plugs. I don't think its as simple as "ecu applies 7V current to plugs for X seconds" I think there's palpitation and current fluctuations that might be plug-specific. Of course, this is just idle chit-chat, who really knows?

If I still had the 7V bosch ceramics I think I'd find a dealer to do the recall, but I'd DEFINITELY interview a few and watch them like a hawk. I love the idea of marking your old ones, then insisting that they show you four complete old plugs and checking the marks.

 

[supton]

I'm too non-confrontational to do that. If I don't think they'll do it right--shouldn't I go someplace else anyhow?

Eh, as long as I get at least a year out of a set I'm ok. They're not that expensive. Plus, I'm not sure if I will keep the car for more than another 2-3 years. Rust is creeping right up there.

 

[supton]

I forgot I had this thread. Car starts a bit too hard for my tastes at 10F and colder, so, time to read up on RC1 versus RC1+. I suspect I want just RC1--I'm not clear what the plus gets, other than running the (old) turbo and the (old) clutch that much harder.

I wonder if he can turn down the intake flap too: the original one made 200k, the replacement not even 40k...

 

[PDJetta]

Give Jeff a call. He tuned my PD to RC 2 (from one of the original RC 1 programs) and I noticed a smother power ramp up, but not noticeably a lot more than RC 1 (although that was quite a bump over stock).

I thought Jeff mentioned something as to teh effect that my throttle was deactivated in the process (he increased the ECU's request for more air (less EGR), but at 130,000 miles, the PLASTIC gears in my throttle housing stripped out. I could hear them grinding while driving, so it must have been active, to some extent. My replacement was about $250 from 1stvwparts.com (my local deater wanted over $500 for it, pre-pay, come back later to get it BS). I hope the new one lasts longer than 40,000 miles! The original and replacement were both made by Pierburg. I would have hoped the replacement was improved.

--Nate

 

[supton]

Oddly, the plastic gears in mine were not badly worn; I think it was the pot (giving position data) that was bad. Of course, it's not servicable... Thanks VW, for saving a buck! (or Piersburg, or Bosch, or whoever makes 'em) I think this time around I might keep the old one, and run that most of the time; and install the good one for inspection time.

I'll see about calling him sometime soon. I went to look at his website, but of course it's blocked at work.

 

[PDJetta]

Here is a picture of my old throttle housing with its crimped cover removed. This is what stripped gears look like:



--Nate

 

[supton]

Nasty! How did you manage to get the gear off? I couldn't figure out a way, and I also figured I wouldn't be able to replace the pot anyhow. So I tossed the unit... If a gear puller can be pressed into service (har!) maybe it'll be worthwhile to save a unit or two.

 

[PDJetta]

I didn't get the gear off. The cover is the only thing I got off. The gear is pressed on and I attempted to pry it off and it shattered. Its such an odd shape anyway. You could not find a replacement. This part is definitely not serviceable. Here is a wide angle view:








Above is the electric motor that drives the throttle plate, via the plastic gearing. There are three gears in series, so the torque is really magnified. The motor must run at a high RPM and even with the steep gear reduction, the flap probably adjusts pretty quickly. It sure shuts fast when the key is turned off.

After I broke the gears out I could extract the motor and circuit board. I guess if you had a proper micro puller that contacted the gear's metal bushing, you could probably get the gear off intact.

This throttle housing is the cause of the PD's HIGH EGR flow rate, well, on some PDs anyway.

--Nate

 

[supton]

Yeah, I tried to take mine apart. Cover is crimped into place, and that gear is pressed quite well on there. Mine was just starting to leak oil into the unit too, so it wasn't long for this world anyhow. Bummer. I will not be a happy camper if the replacement for the replacement doesn't last.