NYTimes: TDIs Are Hot Commodity

[Nuje]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/22/business/volkswagen-diesel-vw-tdi-resales.html

And summarized by Jalopnik.

 

[20062015VWman]

I love my diesels

I have an 06 TDI and a 2015. Both great cars, although my 2015 Golf has a lot more guts.

 

[JSH1]

When I bought my Sportwagen the dealer had 220 fixed TDIs on the lot - 65 sportwagens alone. Today he is down to only 77 so I suspect VW is about out of them. The salesman said the dealer got $2000 per car just to take them and then the service department got paid to so the emission rework.

I wanted a 2015 but they were pretty rare at the time.

My 2014 Jetta Sportwagen TDI SE was $14,000 out the door with 33,000 miles on the clock and a CPO warranty. That is really the only reason I took a chance on a reworked engine. I loved my 2003 Jetta Wagon TDI but today diesel is more than gas and the fuel economy isn't that great.

 

[rhinorear]

but today diesel is more than gas and the fuel economy isn't that great.[/QUOTE]




Fut the wuck!!!? With a 1998 truck and a 2015 Jeep I'm pretty darned impressed with my SW fuel mileage even if diesel is more expensive

 

[ezshift5]

From almost all measurement standards, my JSW TDI 6M really set the bar. The torque, space and fuel numbers immediately come to mind.
Enter the e-scandal and the very generous buyback. Exit the HPFP and DPF potential - probability rather low - but still a concern for this old sailor.
What to do? Accepting the buyback was indeed more painful than I anticipated. However, one of our four local dealers - with emissions scandal driven reasoning + factory discounts - practically gave me a gas Jetta with a motorcycle-sized turbo 4.
That little engine - over 30,000 miles now - has calc'd (per Fuelly) 40.8 MPG.
IMHO VW responded to the US court system much to my advantage.
Sure I miss the wagon. It was a great five years.
ez

 

[johnsTDI]

I own a 2012 TDI 6 speed manual and right now i would not trade that car in for anything great fuel economy.! comfortable heated seating, the car is a Joy to drive.! VW TDI's are cool

 

[nwdiver]

I own a 2012 TDI 6 speed manual and right now i would not trade that car in for anything great fuel economy.! comfortable heated seating, the car is a Joy to drive.! VW TDI's are cool

I thought the exact same thing about my Jetta TDI... until I discovered EVs.

 

[hskrdu]

I thought the exact same thing about my Jetta TDI... until I discovered EVs.

Your discovery doesn't negate, nor diminish that of others. Each owner can, in fact, find what is cool to them- and (if your goal is to be a long-term and constructive member at Fred's) it might be best to consider less of an adversarial approach. I think EV technology is interesting, but there is not an EV that suits/appeals to me with the current tech (nor does it suit or appeal to all drivers). In the same manner, I don't advocate a TDI to interested parties unless it is a good fit for their circumstances. I appreciate your dedication and passion for EVs, but there are different cool cars out there for different people.

 

[nwdiver]

Your discovery doesn't negate, nor diminish that of others. Each owner can, in fact, find what is cool to them- and (if your goal is to be a long-term and constructive member at Fred's) it might be best to consider less of an adversarial approach. I think EV technology is interesting, but there is not an EV that suits/appeals to me with the current tech (nor does it suit or appeal to all drivers). In the same manner, I don't advocate a TDI to interested parties unless it is a good fit for their circumstances. I appreciate your dedication and passion for EVs, but there are different cool cars out there for different people.

I'm actually not passionate about EVs. I'm passionate about efficiency. Which is why I loved my TDI until it became obsolete from the perspective of efficient cars. If a 4 door TDI sedan came out that got >100mpg I would sell my EV and buy that instead.

 

[Lightflyer1]

Well you must have money to burn switching cars like that. Most of us have to take into consideration the cost of buying as well. You keep jumping into threads with off topic EV comments.

 

[nwdiver]

Well you must have money to burn switching cars like that.

??? I've been driving the same car for >7 years.

 

[Daemon64]

I think he was just responding to your comment that you would buy something new if it was more efficient. But more to the point many of us buy diesels because they are more efficient than gas powered vehicles and we enjoy the torque and the niceties of the cars we have now. And many of us may be on longer than a 7 yrs cycle... not to say that you are. Also as i commented to you in another thread many of us and plenty of the general public do not believe that electrics are ready to meet our needs yet. It's not that we have blinders on and dont see it as an interesting or efficient technology.

For me I need my q5 for towing a travel trailer thousands of miles per year, and to move a trailer with lumber and etc... which is why I got a VW tdi as it's one of the most efficient diesels that can do it for relatively light load 4000 <. But we have an electric for where it makes sense... here 32 mile round trip to work daily.

 

[tikal]

I think he was just responding to your comment that you would buy something new if it was more efficient. But more to the point many of us buy diesels because they are more efficient than gas powered vehicles and we enjoy the torque and the niceties of the cars we have now. And many of us may be on longer than a 7 yrs cycle... not to say that you are. Also as i commented to you in another thread many of us and plenty of the general public do not believe that electrics are ready to meet our needs yet. It's not that we have blinders on and dont see it as an interesting or efficient technology.

For me I need my q5 for towing a travel trailer thousands of miles per year, and to move a trailer with lumber and etc... which is why I got a VW tdi as it's one of the most efficient diesels that can do it for relatively light load 4000 <. But we have an electric for where it makes sense... here 32 mile round trip to work daily.

Well stated. In my view TDI vs EVs is a false dichotomy of enormous proportions! In fact I would say that the average TDI owner is much more conscious regarding efficiency of transportation vs the majority of gasoline powered vehicle owners.

Right now EVs are gradually becoming a 'low hanging fruit' for affordable city/urban focused transportation. Even, in this way, you have to do additional homework to make sure that if you buy an EV of brand x for city driving for the next so many years and you need any kind of repair/servicing you can get it dome locally. It is almost déjà vu all over again. You are going to end up needing a new list of 'Trusted EV Gurus by State' What a paradox!

 

[kjclow]

Well stated. In my view TDI vs EVs is a false dichotomy of enormous proportions! In fact I would say that the average TDI owner is much more conscious regarding efficiency of transportation vs the majority of gasoline powered vehicle owners.

Well said. That is why, when the wife said, "Let's buy a full sized truck", I looked at most of them (half ton) on the market and decided on the RAM since it not only rode the smoothest but was also available in a diesel. At 35k miles, my lifetime average is around 22 with mostly city/rural miles.

 

[atc98002]

I would get the Ram diesel in a heartbeat, but my wife has no intention of giving up her '05 1500 short bed V-6 (before they renamed them Ram, it's still a Dodge). No towing power, bad mileage, but it only has 40,000 miles, is almost spotless, and it's used so little there's no valid justification to replace it. I can't convince her to let me replace the radio with something that has Bluetooth. No power windows, seats or door locks, just the basic base model with carpet and the auto as the only options.

 

[Daemon64]

Also just to add a little fire here... Watched this a few weeks ago. Quite funny, a few valid points. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLxPAwIeL0w

 

[turbobrick240]

It's looks as though VW has come to terms with the fact that they will be playing second fiddle to Tesla in the EV revolution.
https://thedriven-io.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/thedriven.io/2020/03/03/the-clamour-to-compete-with-tesla-vw-and-gm-have-a-mammoth-task-ahead/amp/?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15832769935099&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fthedriven.io%2F2020%2F03%2F03%2Fthe-clamour-to-compete-with-tesla-vw-and-gm-have-a-mammoth-task-ahead%2F

 

[kjclow]

I would get the Ram diesel in a heartbeat, but my wife has no intention of giving up her '05 1500 short bed V-6 (before they renamed them Ram, it's still a Dodge). No towing power, bad mileage, but it only has 40,000 miles, is almost spotless, and it's used so little there's no valid justification to replace it. I can't convince her to let me replace the radio with something that has Bluetooth. No power windows, seats or door locks, just the basic base model with carpet and the auto as the only options.

The truck I replaced was on 07 canyon with about 60k miles on it. 5 speed, no power anything except steering. For most of the five years I owned it, it was the third car and mostly used when I needed a truck. My problem was that I either had a short in the rear brake lights or my abs was going out. Everytime the cel popped up, the codes pointed to the abs. It was due for state inspection and the lit up cel is an automatic failure. We discussed options and the wife said let's get a new one. We are also talking about a travel trailer for retirement, so having the truck fist shortens the trailer models to look at.

 

[El Dobro]

It's looks as though VW has come to terms with the fact that they will be playing second fiddle to Tesla in the EV revolution.
https://thedriven-io.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/thedriven.io/2020/03/03/the-clamour-to-compete-with-tesla-vw-and-gm-have-a-mammoth-task-ahead/amp/?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15832769935099&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fthedriven.io%2F2020%2F03%2F03%2Fthe-clamour-to-compete-with-tesla-vw-and-gm-have-a-mammoth-task-ahead%2F

As stated in the article, GM just had their EV day.
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/gm-shows-12-future-evs-new-ultium-battery-system/

 

[turbobrick240]

As stated in the article, GM just had their EV day.
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/gm-shows-12-future-evs-new-ultium-battery-system/

I hope GM makes it work. Ultium, Unobtainium, etc.- corporate buzzwords don't impress me a whole lot. They would be so much further along if they hadn't killed off the EV1 20 years ago. LG Chem on the other hand is a business I think I'd like to invest in.

 

[pkhoury]

I hope GM makes it work. Ultium, Unobtainium, etc.- corporate buzzwords don't impress me a whole lot. They would be so much further along if they hadn't killed off the EV1 20 years ago. LG Chem on the other hand is a business I think I'd like to invest in.

The concept is cool, but I don't see it working for rural areas yet. And GM is definitely something else, and I don't mean that in a good way.

 

[johnsTDI]

Daemon64
I will also put Teslas through the fire by saying they are not all perfect like there made to look like. they do have draw backs just to name one of them is the big 20 inch rims fitted with Low profile tires they use.? why? Tesla used them is beyond me asthetic looks maybe? maybe a little better handling able to fit larger brakes? not sure. all I no is it don't mix well when you mix a 4.100 pound vehicle with them and hit a pot hole hard enough just right your damaging the tire or rim or both at an alarming expensive price to fix.! ouch..!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6sPc9dFsGw

 

[tikal]

Daemon64
I will also put Teslas through the fire by saying they are not all perfect like there made to look like. they do have draw backs just to name one of them is the big 20 inch rims fitted with Low profile tires they use.? why? Tesla used them is beyond me asthetic looks maybe? maybe a little better handling able to fit larger brakes? not sure. all I no is it don't mix well when you mix a 4.100 pound vehicle with them and hit a pot hole hard enough just right your damaging the tire or rim or both at an alarming expensive price to fix.! ouch..!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6sPc9dFsGw

But isn't the point of luxury vehicles, Audi included of course, performance and 'looks' rather than repair-ability and most 'bang for the money' cost of ownership?

 

[Daemon64]

Tikal,

I dont know... that kinda seems like a stretch. If were just comparing audi to tesla.... atleast with the audi I have the option to self repair, and shop for affordable alternatives. I mean in the instance of engineering explained we're just talking about rims here. But with Tesla they try to control the whole process end to end. Rich rebuilds on youtube has good info on people who cant repair their crashed cars for months if ever, fitment issues, etc... etc...

I think my biggest gripe with Tesla themselves is this very point. And is a major reason I will never purchase a Tesla. We purchased a VW electric just for this reason....

 

[tikal]

Daemon64, I see what you are saying. Hopefully there will be much more non-Tesla affordable EVs in a non-distant future with local places to repair them if needed.

Paradoxically low fuel prices are bad news for the sale of TDIs, gasoline hybrids and EVs simultaneously :-(

 

[Daemon64]

Tikal,

Exactly. That is my hope as well. Many of the normal car systems still need local maintenance, like tires, brakes, in the event of quatro it still has driveshafts and etc...

I agree on the low fuel prices meaning adoption will not be as strong. People are largely motivated by their wallets, which is why 40k + Evs haven't been particularly strong sellers but < 20k kias, toyotas, vw's etc...etc.. have. Which is why I want to see the adoption of synthetic diesel and gasoline from carbon capture. This is a way to get this into the hands of people now.... Also, consider this, if we produce the fuel domestically then we would not rely on foreign oil at all.... things that make you go hrmmmm....

 

[kjclow]

We already pump more oil from the ground in the US then we import.

 

[turbobrick240]

Most of the brightest scientists and engineers in the field think direct air carbon capture by mechanical/chemical means is a waste of resources. Big oil seems to be pushing the tech. to greenwash their profits. They're more interested in using the captured CO2 to extract more oil from the ground than making synthetic fuels. We really need to focus more on reducing emissions than hunting for a magic bullet that doesn't exist.

 

[Daemon64]

I can't speak for an entire industry. I can speak based on the company Carbon Engineering or carbonengineering.com which is what I am specifically refering to. The direct air capture carbon, use water to get the other parts of the hydrocarbon, and use primarily green energy, and are planning to produce diesel and gasoline to sell in Canada and California for the time being.

Silver bullet? No. Reducer of current emissions yes.

As of 2019 there were 284.5 million registered vehicles in the US alone. The current global sales of EVs yearly is 2%, the US sells 17.9 million new cars per year. Even if EVs were to sell as 100% for the vehicles it would take 16 Years to phase out. But if the industry went gangbusters and grew by 1000% from their current that would only be 20% of new cars sales. But I'll go all in and say adoption is 50% in the near short term.... or 9 Million cars per year that would mean to replace all the cars in the US alone with electrics would take 32 years..... EVs are helpful, but they are not the only solution. We need to find a solution for the existing ICE cars because it will be a long time before they go away even if electrics took every sale going forward tomorrow....

What we need is not a "silver bullet" which is what EV proponents think they are, but a ton of smaller and incremental changes ASAP to get us moving in the right direction which other things phase over, or adjust. Numbers don't lie and those are the numbers. Also one last thing to think about Tesla struggled HORRIBLY to produce 400k vehicles per year. We're talking that what needs to happen is EV's would need to be produced at a rate of roughly 50 times that every single year to just replace US vehicles.... its an enormous task.

 

[turbobrick240]

There is no industry. There are a few experimental direct carbon capture operations. The numbers just don't work. The operating energy is much better used to replace existing fossil fuel usage.

I wouldn't underestimate the industrial might of this country/continent when we really focus our energy. We could be producing 100% EV's in just a few years if we felt the need urgently enough.