NY Times: Researchers Who Exposed VW Gain Little Reward From Success

tonestar

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My alma mater... Great school, great people, excellent work... $0

What a shame
 

Rico567

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Whistleblowers are lauded in the press, but seldom prosper.
 

sriracha

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I'm disappointed that they only tested a fee VW's and a BMW, before spilling the beans. I wish they tested a broader spectrum of vehicles and manufacturers to know if others are cheating also.
 

rcough

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I am considering sending some of my windfall to these engineers for their good work. (My daughter is a graduate student in engineering (not at WVU) and hustling for $$ to pay for research is an important part of the academic game now...)
 

autdi

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Really they found two things, one that the real world doesn't match the EPA test cycle, and second that VW was cheating a lot on the gen 1 and 2 models. Looking at the gen 3 numbers out of CARB, while they may be cheating, the magnitude is minimal http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/vw_info/consent_decree_graph.pdf which lacks the 0.05 standard line, but gen 3 sure looks under it if the graph is to scale before the fix.

What they really failed to do was figure out how they cheated, all they really found is something strange in the data. If you want to credit the duo that actually figured out how they were doing it, you need to look at CCC for the real unraveling of the story.
 

Leeshepard

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VW should make a big donation

If VW really cared about becoming an environmentally friendly company and wanted to improve their image they should give WVU a lot of money. But they won't.
 

rotarykid

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these clowns don't deserve any praise! they should have applied a little of that effort to showing how ridiculously silly the current over regulation of NOx on light duty auto diesels compared to the real positive influence on our energy independence they could have without the current stupid useless regulation that block their sale here.

stupid regulations which are on non-existent for 30 years since the end of CAFE when it comes to them doing nothing to clean up any air...
 

dropnosky

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Perhaps they all bought tdis and will be part of the settlement proposal
 

Leeshepard

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these clowns don't deserve any praise! they should have applied a little of that effort to showing how ridiculously silly the current over regulation of NOx on light duty auto diesels compared to the real positive influence on our energy independence they could have without the current stupid useless regulation that block their sale here.

stupid regulations which are on non-existent for 30 years since the end of CAFE when it comes to them doing nothing to clean up any air...
These may be stupid regulations, but all other diesel carmakers spent lots of money to comply and VW cheated so they didn't have to spend the money. Hence, the well deserved punishment. But I do think the regs should be much more heavily focused on co2 reduction and therefore fuel consumption.
 

rotarykid

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These may be stupid regulations, but all other diesel carmakers spent lots of money to comply and VW cheated so they didn't have to spend the money. Hence, the well deserved punishment. But I do think the regs should be much more heavily focused on co2 reduction and therefore fuel consumption.


PLEASE!!!!! NO ONE ELSE, no other automaker HAS EVEN TRIED TO SELL A DIESEL AUTO class vehicle IN THE US SINCE for thirty+ years now......

So these regulations which effected less than 0.0001 % of the vehicles sold in the US over that time, were never about cleaning up any air...how could they since they do not exist in the real world in the US....
 

DanB36

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PLEASE!!!!! NO ONE ELSE, no other automaker HAS EVEN TRIED TO SELL A DIESEL AUTO class vehicle IN THE US SINCE for thirty+ years now......
I guess that diesel BMW I drove a couple of weeks ago must have been a figment of my imagination. Same with the diesel Mercedes E-class and the Chevy Cruze diesel.

VW/Audi are not the only ones selling passenger car diesels in the US, but they're on a very short list.
 

rotarykid

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These bullshirt NOx rules were never about any efforts to clean up any air

I guess that diesel BMW I drove a couple of weeks ago must have been a figment of my imagination. Same with the diesel Mercedes E-class and the Chevy Cruze diesel.

VW/Audi are not the only ones selling passenger car diesels in the US, but they're on a very short list.
Chevy sold ONE model in miniscule numbers since 1985, BMW sold no diesel autos from 1985 to ~2010....

MB sold one or two models over the last 3 decades, no lower price models....

Not a single car make other than a few low end offerings from VW in one model from late 89 MY to 92 MY offered a diesel powered auto class vehicle from 1986 to 1996.....

VWAG sold along with everyone else sold no auto class diesel offerings from 1992 to 1996! VWAG sold a very few diesel Passats, a couple of Golfs and a very few Jettas from 96-early 98. VWAG began to offer more diesels but still in very low numbers from 98 to 04.

In O4 light duty auto class emissions strickened again not to give cleaner air to make it harder for anyone to attempt to offer diesel power in any auto, banning the diesel offering by CARB's stupid ridiculous rules again which were never about giving cleaner air, how could they from the non-existent diesel for the last two decades at that point!

MB even stopped selling diesels here for years until 1999 when they tried to re-introduce a diesel, ONE diesel powered model!

No Fords, Chryslers, Toyotas, Nissans, Mitsubishis, No one other than the above listed even attempted to sell an auto class model with diesel power from 1985-86 Model year up to 2009-2010. And then the offerings were only a model or two from the die-hard german auto makes!

So no, there were no vehicles sold for close 30 years to meet these ridiculously over-stringent stupid useless light duty diesel power in the auto class emissions rules....So these rules on non existent for over 3 decades models were political efforts to bolster electrics while trying to make it impossible for any auto make to produce a diesel powered offering to compete with these pie in the sky offerings........

These bullshirt NOx rules were never about any efforts to clean up any air, how could they have they have been since no auto make has sold auto class diesels here in any numbers for over 3 decades now!!!!!!
 

bloc

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Spent some time in Peru earlier this year, where diesels with ALH-level emissions controls were everywhere. It SUCKED in the cities.. literally eye watering trying to walk down a sidewalk when lots of traffic was around.

The rules ARE about avoiding dirty air. If they had the added side-effect of keeping diesels off the road? CARB/EPA seems just fine with that. Diesels have always had the perception of being noisy/slow/smokey (thanks 1970's and 80's) and CARB is just fine with the perception that they are actually doing something. Hell, most people that have lived in CA cities for a few decades know that CARB has been doing a lot..

But then that doesn't satisfy the black-helicopter part of your brain, does it?
 

Darkone

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Chevy sold ONE model in miniscule numbers since 1985, BMW sold no diesel autos from 1985 to ~2010....
MB sold one or two models over the last 3 decades, no lower price models....
Not a single car make other than a few low end offerings from VW in one model from late 89 MY to 92 MY offered a diesel powered auto class vehicle from 1986 to 1996.....
VWAG sold along with everyone else sold no auto class diesel offerings from 1992 to 1996! VWAG sold a very few diesel Passats, a couple of Golfs and a very few Jettas from 96-early 98. VWAG began to offer more diesels but still in very low numbers from 98 to 04.
In O4 light duty auto class emissions strickened again not to give cleaner air to make it harder for anyone to attempt to offer diesel power in any auto, banning the diesel offering by CARB's stupid ridiculous rules again which were never about giving cleaner air, how could they from the non-existent diesel for the last two decades at that point!
MB even stopped selling diesels here for years until 1999 when they tried to re-introduce a diesel, ONE diesel powered model!
No Fords, Chryslers, Toyotas, Nissans, Mitsubishis, No one other than the above listed even attempted to sell an auto class model with diesel power from 1985-86 Model year up to 2009-2010. And then the offerings were only a model or two from the die-hard german auto makes!
So no, there were no vehicles sold for close 30 years to meet these ridiculously over-stringent stupid useless light duty diesel power in the auto class emissions rules....So these rules on non existent for over 3 decades models were political efforts to bolster electrics while trying to make it impossible for any auto make to produce a diesel powered offering to compete with these pie in the sky offerings........
These bullshirt NOx rules were never about any efforts to clean up any air, how could they have they have been since no auto make has sold auto class diesels here in any numbers for over 3 decades now!!!!!!
+ 14.7 Billion! WVU got exactly what they deserved.
 

Darkone

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Spent some time in Peru earlier this year, where diesels with ALH-level emissions controls were everywhere. It SUCKED in the cities.. literally eye watering trying to walk down a sidewalk when lots of traffic was around.

The rules ARE about avoiding dirty air. If they had the added side-effect of keeping diesels off the road? CARB/EPA seems just fine with that. Diesels have always had the perception of being noisy/slow/smokey (thanks 1970's and 80's) and CARB is just fine with the perception that they are actually doing something. Hell, most people that have lived in CA cities for a few decades know that CARB has been doing a lot..

But then that doesn't satisfy the black-helicopter part of your brain, does it?
If CARB/EPA truly care about clean air, fines for this;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliso_Canyon_gas_leak
should be at least 100 times more than what VW is expected to pay. ANd yet there were no fines issued. Perhaps they would if the Aliso Canyon was owned by rich Germans.
 

Redeemed

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The people involved with testing were either students or employees of the school. So they either received a normal paycheck or class credit.
What else should they have received?
 

Vidgamer

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The people involved with testing were either students or employees of the school. So they either received a normal paycheck or class credit.
What else should they have received?
Apparently, a special windfall for being victims... um.., for catching bad guys! Yeah, a reward. That's it.

Yeah, I guess doing the right thing, doing your job, isn't rewarding enough.

If I see a crime and call the cops, should I expect a reward? If it were embezzlement and something hard to see and report it, should I expect a reward?

SO, yeah, good point.

Take the flipside -- what if payouts went to researchers that found faults? What if they started finding faults everywhere, with everything? :eek:
 

Vidgamer

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Spent some time in Peru earlier this year, where diesels with ALH-level emissions controls were everywhere. It SUCKED in the cities.. literally eye watering trying to walk down a sidewalk when lots of traffic was around.

The rules ARE about avoiding dirty air. If they had the added side-effect of keeping diesels off the road? CARB/EPA seems just fine with that. Diesels have always had the perception of being noisy/slow/smokey (thanks 1970's and 80's) and CARB is just fine with the perception that they are actually doing something. Hell, most people that have lived in CA cities for a few decades know that CARB has been doing a lot..

But then that doesn't satisfy the black-helicopter part of your brain, does it?
I recall when I visited London over a decade ago, the diesel smell was strong in the city. I mean, it was annoying, more so than I could recall from any American city I visited. Now, a lot of that should be cleaned up with the "clean diesel" low-sulfur fuel, right? I mean that was mostly the smell.

As for LA, I could still see the smog, when I visited a couple of years ago. Certainly, clean air is more important there than elsewhere, where there is more air movement.
 

rotarykid

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how could these rules have anything to do with cleaner air when these regulations are on non existent vehicles! NO ONE SOLD THEM HERE FOR 3+ decades in auto class which is the class this entire discussion is about....

We are talking about diesel powered auto class vehicles which were sold here in such low number sold here since 1985 model year compared to the real pollution producers, that is compared to the gasoline powered vehicles sold in the hundreds of millions if not billions of units over this time compared to a few hundred thousand units at most when all of the auto class diesel units sold here from all who have tried to sell a diesel powered auto class model are so low that it is hard to put in a frame of reference....

Please where is the clean air to be gotten here from this action??????? from the over regulation of vehicles only offered here really by one auto make, and only in very limited numbers......And before someone brings up MB or BMW these offerings extremely expensive very limited offerings, in numbers so low in so few years to be numbers which are really irrelevant to this discussion....

But how dare reality have anything to do with passing these stupid rules on vehicles no one sales in an effort just to make the air look cleaner on paper while doing nothing to actually clean up any air anywhere!!!!!!!!!!
 

DanB36

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rotarykid

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VWAG close to getting CARB approved on fixes...

It is sounding like VWAG is getting real close to an approved CARB and EPA fix on all of 2.0L TDI-CRs sold in north america! That could mean no buy backs,

To make these CARB & EPA ashats happy... just some payments to owners to compensate for owners for this bogus BS mess which in the end will not make the air cleaner anywhere....

Then software rewrites, made to all (on many models nothing more required than removal of real world driving improvement software) that are still out there.....

!!!!a real win win for all!!!
 

Dimitri16V

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Enough with excuses for VAG . They knew the rules ( fair or not) and they decided to cheat . This comes on the onset of the Toyota fiasco which should have been a warning to them that the US government will scrutinize automakers
Plain German arrogance

I sense that plenty of members here and vendors are praying for a fix that will keep the TDI market going . But with gas prices low , efficient TSI engines available , I don't see VW trying to rejuvenate the TDI market
You would actually think this is prime time to enhance their line up with a 1.4 TSI Polo , Scirocco or a real mini van
 

kydsid

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Enough with excuses for VAG . They knew the rules ( fair or not) and they decided to cheat . n

Ding, we have a winner. Maybe they had to cheat because they didn't have the resources to effect regulatory and legal change as outlined in our constitution and legal precedents?
 

r11

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Em "researchers" were used as a tool by a biased party.

Instead of reporting on totality of emissions, including CO2, PM and HC - where TDI betters gassers by up to 100x, the useful idjits coined the now famous "40 times the legal limit" on NOx. We know the rest.

Em eggheads are supposed to have integrity & morals. Alas, since Manhattan project, we know otherwise
 

kt88

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I feel like the major point of the article is being missed. Its not like they are asking for a major windfall of money to go lounge on a beach somewhere, they need money overall just to operate. I went to WVU for both my undergrad and graduate degrees so I can vouche for just how hard it is for a research program to get funding, especially in the state of WV where there is quite literally nothing.

Without funding for research, regardless of whether it's developmental research or research that catches something like this, there can be no development of technology to help reduce emissions, increase fuel economy, ect. and make it economically viable for the public.
 

Philpug

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I feel like the major point of the article is being missed. Its not like they are asking for a major windfall of money to go lounge on a beach somewhere, they need money overall just to operate. I went to WVU for both my undergrad and graduate degrees so I can vouche for just how hard it is for a research program to get funding, especially in the state of WV where there is quite literally nothing.

Without funding for research, regardless of whether it's developmental research or research that catches something like this, there can be no development of technology to help reduce emissions, increase fuel economy, ect. and make it economically viable for the public.
Thank You. That is exactly it.
 
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