NX option?

[minilooker]

Hi anyone tried installing NOS system with their TDi? I'm was thinking if its possible and what would be the disadvantage if I would install this thing as part of my diesel performance plan.

 

[KERMA]

here's a little thread I started in 2007.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=176806

The car is a daily driver to this day. Engine remains perfect. 300k+ miles. Probably good for another 300k.

 

[Spike_africa]

You can install any universal diesel kit. All it does is inject just nitrous so really any universal dry kit would work. But on a diesel you have to have extra unburnt fuel for the nitrous to do anything. If your not pushing a ton of fuel that the turbo can't get enough air for, the gains will be minimal regardless of how much you spray.

Source, I spray a lot of cars and have used nitrous for years.

 

[loudspl]

....also used N2O for years. Works really well to lower EGTs and helps burn excess fuel.

The catch is using it all the time gets expensive. It can run around $5/lb. and a typical 10lb bottle tends to get used up quick.

You also need to make sure you run a good solenoid. IMO that's the one component that usually causes issues if they go unchecked. They can be rebuilt but if they fail you won't be having a very good day..

 

[mk1-83]

When do you actived the no2 ? Only at full boost / throttle
What rpm and for how long ?

 

[devonutopia]

Unfortunately my nitrous system (wizards of nos) trigger broke so I bypassed it and now just have a switch in the car to manually trigger it. I know when the good time is - it's basically when all hell breaks loose, and the little red button gives more hell looseness There is no given RPM etc - I simply can feel when it's right.

I use a wizards of nos 100 shot dry system, although I literally only run it on dynos and quarter mile runs. It's pointless on trackdays, and generally pointless on the road too.

 

[KERMA]

IMO a wizards of nos would be the only kit I would use for a TDI.

Never ever ever

NEVER

inject liquid nitrous after the turbo.

Never. Unless you like living dangerously. There's a pic of a splodey intake manifold around here somewhere. And other carnage that's avoidable if you just do it the right way.

I do it in the airbox before the air filter, injected pre-MAF and fully vaporized. Solenoid and jetted at the bottle. Run a plastic air brake line to the front of the car, stick the end in the airbox. Doing it this way is as safe as it gets, though you can still have a nitrous backfire.

Injecting post-turbo throws the mass balance off between the turbo intake/exhaust and you can overspeed the turbo quite easily, and the VNT goes nuts.

Injecting gaseous nitrous in the airbox "enriches" the air with more oxygen so to speak, so you get the benefit of the extra O2 improving combustion, without unexpected temperature changes midstream and airmass that the ecu doesn't know about, so the ECU stays happy. You may forego a bit of cooling this way but it is safe.

And no "progressive" nonsense. VNT goes nuts trying to figure out what's going on. WOT switch only.

 

[devonutopia]

Mine injects (gas) into the EGR delete. Seems to work well enough.

 

[loudspl]

'splodey manifold was the result of crap solenoid and activation @ too low rpms
Like Jason, no problems with injecting pre-manifold so far. No problems with PWM progressive either!

Progressive setups can help bring in N2O slowly and ramp up based on rpm, MPH, TPS position, etc. Some can even tie into wideband O2 sensor for adjustment based on AFR/lambda.

One example of what progressive control can do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAwoQE0QAoU


Example of setting for (time) rpm based activation. Start at small % at safe rpm, user-defined ramp up to max % and then stay at max defined % until cutoff point where solenoid is no longer pulsed:

 

[ryanp]

Injecting before the intercooler negates the cooling effect of the NOS, i use a single jet after the intercooler or direct to the inlet manifold ports.

WON kits are very good quality, had quite a few brands and these just work as they should. We are testing out the REVO system and that work well, not sure its worth the extra expense.

If you have a lot of NOS flow and inject too early it can stall the engine, never had a major backfire. I always try to inject just before peak boost. Keep an eye on those spikes!!

 

[devonutopia]

If you have a lot of NOS flow and inject too early it can stall the engine, never had a major backfire. I always try to inject just before peak boost. Keep an eye on those spikes!!

Good call. My old IC system used to have in inject about 3 feet before the intake, and that distance used to sometimes cause the engine to judder if I tried injecting it a little early. That "feeling" of when is right is probably pretty much on full boost, so for me might be about 2750-2800rpm when the car is probably getting in its stride.

 

[snadam]

In the NX promo video linked above the guy mentions using N20 sparingly at low RPM to minimize turbo lag. Kind of a stop gap O2 delivery system while the turbo spools up. Have any of you messed around with that? I keep thinking that one day I'll upgrade my current ALH with a 2056 or 2260 but am scared the lag will be unacceptable. If N20 could go towards solving the lag issue I'm all ears.

 

[mk1-83]

Gtb2260 vk mine spools very fast back time.

Full boost 2.7 bar at 2700 rpm

2 bar at 2000 rpm so it's fast.
500+ nm at 2400 rpm, 580nm at 2700 rpm
277 HP 4250 rpm max hp, from 4500 till 5500 hp is around 260 all the time !!
It's all in the tune good nozzles hflox.275 and 12mm pump.

 

[GT Beetle]

2 bar is 30 psi and 2.7 bar is 40 psi , Nice !

 

[mk1-83]

Yes gtb2260 vk do very well.
Now gtb2365vklr bb. Spools a bit later full boost at 3200 rpm 2.7 bar.
Around 2.0 bar at 2600 rpm.
But when it hits full boost it fly's true rpms and gears.
A good bit faster then old setup 277 HP 580nm
Not yet dyno I'm thinking around 300-320 HP and 500+ nm

All with fuel only no nx no w/m diesel and good tune and good hardware.

 

[loudspl]

In the NX promo video linked above the guy mentions using N20 sparingly at low RPM to minimize turbo lag. Kind of a stop gap O2 delivery system while the turbo spools up. Have any of you messed around with that? I keep thinking that one day I'll upgrade my current ALH with a 2056 or 2260 but am scared the lag will be unacceptable. If N20 could go towards solving the lag issue I'm all ears.

OE 2056 or 2260 are not really large VGT turbos to begin with.
IMO headwork and other airflow mods are enough for decent spool with those turbos...especially if you're running stock compression, lots of fuel & advanced timing.

PWM controllers can be used to minimize lag. If you're looking for instant-on VNT-15 response, progressive nitrous would not be the best continual usage solution.....there is no free lunch.

Nitrous solenoids don't have infinite lifespan. Their electromagnet coil is not capable of continuous operation. No matter what brand you choose.
Holding these solenoids in the open position (pulsed activation or otherwise) for too long = burnt electromagnet coil. They get hot. Quickly!

Also, if you use nitrous a lot....the solenoid's inner piston seal can wear out from repeated hammering when it closes against the base. It can also get contaminated with trash causing nitrous to leak when you don't want it to. To help it live longer, use an inline nitrous filter. If you need to rebuild one, there are kits out there.
A solenoid that isn't checked prior to use can make for a very very bad day. Ask how I know..

Another reason you might not want to use it all the time is simply cost.
It can vary depending on where you live from $5 - $8/lb. to refill at a speed shop. That's usually about $50 USD per 10lb. bottle!
If you plan on using it a lot, get a ~60lb. "mother bottle" from a welding supply store and transfer to your smaller bottles after chilling them. This can cut the expense per pound in half.

Nitrous works really well on a TDI if you're willing to plan and maintain your setup for reliability

 

[mk1-83]

How much HP you're normally get when you're TDI is a bit smokey say AFR 1.:15
Around 30 HP maybe ? When you're use NOx

 

[devonutopia]

How much HP you're normally get when you're TDI is a bit smokey say AFR 1.:15
Around 30 HP maybe ? When you're use NOx

Mine was 315 with 290 without (BHP not WHP)

However as I have discovered recently, the engine hasn't been good for a while so will be interested to know what difference can be made after its rebuilt.

 

[loudspl]

With smokey tune, I had +50whp with old setup, still room for more nitrous as smoke was still there but not as opaque black cloud..

With 15:1 you should be able to see significant gains, start with small jet like 0.050" or so and work to bigger.

Pic of old setup and injection point:

Pic of alternate injection point (Kerma suggested):

 

[mk1-83]

thanks mate,
buth how much stress ads it true no2 ?
same as raising boost?
maybe less true the cooling effect of no2.
50 whp is a nice gain

 

[Layerz]

So just to throw this out there.

What are the feelings on propane in this mix as a cheaper alternative? I know some people run both.

What are the pro's and con's vs No2

 

[devonutopia]

I used to run propane but the more my car was used on trackdays the more I realised lugging about the tank and gas was hampering me more than the gains, so I just got big nozzles.

 

[Layerz]

I used to run propane but the more my car was used on trackdays the more I realised lugging about the tank and gas was hampering me more than the gains, so I just got big nozzles.

Out of interest what increase did you see with Propane?

And at what point does it have a diminutive return over NO2?

And what kind of nozzle transition did you make?

 

[devonutopia]

I rarely used the nitrous at the same time. The propane appeared to give more economy (on diesel) benefits than power, hence why I got rid eventually.

Now I use DSSR 130 and a 100 shot nitrous nozzle.

 

[2barthriller]

I am currently injecting nitrous between my velocity stack and MAF housing. I am thinking about going direct port with the same jet size and doing the EVRY mod with a switch. Has anyone tried this?

 

[2barthriller]

My 01M takes it like a champ with no problems or delay. I'm swapping to a 02M and building the engine after VW Harvest in Austin,TX. I'm gonna miss this setup. It is very quick from a stop.