Nuisance code P2564

[pedroYUL]

Car is a BEW engine.

Yes, I've checked the wires to the smart actuator all the way up to the 3rd loom by the coolant bottle...they seem fine.

Actuator holds vacuum, vac line also holds vacuum, car drives normal for a while until there is usually a small delay in boost and immediate CEL.

The car doesn't give me an instant CEL, I can drive a variable amount after I last clear the CEL, until it triggers again. CEL doesn't affect driveability, it doesn't go into limp mode.

Thursday,16,July,2020,16:01:58:30127
VCDS Version: Release 20.4.1 (x64) Running on Windows 10 x64
www.Ross-Tech.com

Address 01: Engine Labels: 038-906-016-BEW.LBL
Control Module Part Number: 038 997 016 R HW: 028 101 114 6
Component and/or Version: R4 1,9L EDC G000SG 0282
Software Coding: 0150031
Work Shop Code: WSC 66565 257 00032
VCID: 2D5B76D4B76491EE90-5102
1 Fault Found:

18996 - Turbocharger Boost Control Position Sensor Circuit
P2564 - 000 - Signal too Low - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1827 /min
Torque: 216.0 Nm
Speed: 26.0 km/h
Load: 89.0 %
Lambda: -6.4 %
Absolute Pres.: 2029.8 mbar
Absolute Pres.: 1366.8 mbar


Readiness: 1 1 0 0 1

From Ross-Tech wiki "When found in VW 2.0L PD TDI with engine codes BRM and BEW see measuring block 043.2 for G500 readings"

I can go to measuring block 043 in the engine, but I have no clue what I'm looking at.

Charge Pressure Control Duty Cycle is 4.7% with key on, engine off; and 74.2% at idle. Boost requested vs delivered doesn't seem way too off.

I need help please!

 

[oilhammer]

A few choices:

Borg Warner does not sell the actuator with the sensor by itself for the BEW's OEM unit, you have to replace the whole turbo.

Garrett's [mostly] drop in replacement VNT17, which is in my opinion a better turbo anyway, DOES have a replacement actuator with sensor available. So you still have to buy a turbo, but if it happens again, you can just replace the actuator.

You can have that input tuned out, most tuners can do this. The BHW gets by perfectly fine without one. You can also have the tuner do some other tweaks if you want, up to you. Normally I am not a huge fan of EGR deletes, however the BEW's setup is almost as trouble prone as the BRM's, what with missing brackets, cracking pipes, and sometimes the mounting tabs on the cooler itself break.

Really depends on what you want to do, and what you want to spend. I can tell you that one of the best running TDI combinations out there is a BEW with a mild tune, a Garrett VNT17, EGR delete (along with the vane sensor and oxygen sensor, don't need those either), and a one-piece intake manifold (get rid of that stupid twin port nonsense, a BEW-exclusive). They run GREAT, don't smoke, and get 50 MPG on the highway, and are reliable and have an absolutely fantastic power delivery.

 

[pedroYUL]

Yeah, really appreciate your input OH!

...I forgot to mention that the KP39 actuator died about 8 years ago or so, and this is a Garrett actuator that I managed to bolt to the BW turbo, which weeps oil but still goes strong after 420k km.

Do I need another Garrett actuator, a new one?

 

[eddieleephd]

From what I read, it is saying the position sensor on the turbo isn't reading what it expects even though the boost is correct.
Might hook a vac pump to the actuator and move it around to see what happens. Don't know if you can get that actuator separately from the turbo.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

 

[pedroYUL]

Okay, okay...I did "exercise" the actuator, it moves smoothly, and perhaps starts too soon.

My reading says it should start moving around 3" Hg, mine starts right away almost 0". Also, literature says it should stop moving around 18", mine stops at 18".

Now, I don't fully get how if I move the nuts inward or outward the actuator will start moving later? Also, I set this actuator 8 years ago, and it just "developed" this issue late last year.

I do appreciate all the help.

 

[eddieleephd]

It doesn't, that's how it's going to work.
All that mumbo jumbo is misstated.
I've found that boost logs are the only way to adjust it correctly.
Adjustment isn't the issue here, it's been working fine. The sensor itself isn't reporting what's expected and that's throwing the code.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

 

[pedroYUL]

Got a new Garrett actuator, code is gone now.

 

[pedroYUL]

Nope, code is not gone...so annoying.

I now know how to adjust the actuator to start moving exactly where I want it. I've adjusted it to start at 4" and around 6"...still get signal too low code and CEL.

It could be that I got a flaky sensor too in the new actuator, but the car has zero driveability issues (used to overboost and limp when rod started moving too soon).

Any more ideas on what to check? Appreciate the help!

 

[oilhammer]

See post #2 (the part about tuning it out).

 

[pedroYUL]

Only if I didn't have an eco tune already. I was a beta tester for Green Diesel Eng for their tuning services, real happy with that tune, it has dynamic EGR disabling, or full disabling not sure now. I would prefer to spend the money in the right fix if needed, instead of another tune, sorry.

Now, after reading here: https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?threads/p2564-and-vw-wiring-from-hell.250370/

I finally understand what VCDS calls 43.2...2nd field of block 43...duh!

Got some data: 11.5% engine off, 91.7% engine on which is far from 100% difference. Which is I think what is triggering the signal low code.
Then I did the N75 output test (cold engine tho): 979mbar at 95% duty cycle and 958mbar at 4.8% duty cycle. A difference of only 21mbar!

Please, please someone check my logic, but I think this is all pointing to a dying turbo, no?

Next step, which is a pain in the winter, is for me to log some turbo data while running to confirm my suspicions...but I would've thought the codes for a dying turbo would be others: over-under-boost, range not reached, etc

...baffled!

 

[eddieleephd]

I’m thinking it depends on the cleanliness of the veins. Before I would assume it’s dying, I would disconnect the actuator and see how the thing moves.
Does it move freely and then stick, or does it move slowly?
when it’s worn and sticks at the ends its near death. When it’s sluggish moving between it’s just dirty.
There’sa high likely hood this turbo has seen greater than 200k and is even near the 300+k and is definitely going, however, between those numbers should be capable of being healthy.

 

[oilhammer]

Some tuners will "re"tune at no charge, you may ask.

If the engine is running fine, and the only DTC present is the one for the vane sensor, that pretty much points to a bad sensor (or the wires to it). Again, not sure why these are even there, as the ECU clearly does not need it, and the engine will run perfectly fine without it.

Even if the tuner did charge to reflash again, it would still be less headache than buying and swapping the actuator again. But it is your car, I already know what I would do.

 

[pedroYUL]

@DanG144 cites the difference when doing N75 output test needs to be above 30mbar, and I only got 21. He even says he read close to 70 for his car.

I will disconnect and have yet another "look" at both the actuator rod and how it moves thru the range, and the lever. Lever is very very soft, perhaps too soft? But I have to make sure it doesn't stick anywhere.

I did do the oven cleaner method, but perhaps I can do it again taking even better care of spraying and exercising the lever to clear stuff inside.

 

[BobnOH]

Since it was a beta tune, I might suspect it. Would also check the wires/connectors involved.

18996/P2564/009572 - Ross-Tech Wiki

wiki.ross-tech.com

 

[pedroYUL]

Since it was a beta tune, I might suspect it. Would also check the wires/connectors involved.

18996/P2564/009572 - Ross-Tech Wiki

wiki.ross-tech.com

Been running that tune for years without issues, also, went back to original file and made no difference.

I believe when the wiring is bad, then the numbers reported to ECU are all wrong, either no number or a fixed value for both engine off and on (for block 43, field 2). I did check the wiring (which I will do again) and it was all good all the way till up by the coolant bottle.

 

[pedroYUL]

Bought another brand new smart actuator, keep getting the same code, so I just went ahead and ordered a new turbo. At this age it owes me nothing.

I will update here when the old turbo is out and inspected. Even if okay, I know it was seeping a little oil.

 

[pedroYUL]

Update: New turbo (Melett VNT17) is finally installed, discovered N75 was weak, backup N75 was dead, new Pierburg N75 installed. Wiring checks out +5V pin1, ground on pin3.

Now I don't get a CEL, but the same "signal too low" DTC is in there and not intermittent. What a pain!

Numbers did change drastically with new turbo and N75, old smart actuator:

I now have a difference of 110% in the position sensor range. Those numbers are key on/engine off, and engine running.

In the stored DTC the lambda is now smaller, yet still negative: -3.8%

 

[pedroYUL]

To close this story up. The code remains, but there is no CEL, which probably means I would need to change that actuator (the oldest one I have), for a newer one and test...but I don't want to. I will probably lose the circlip!

Old and new turbos:

Old one was already somewhat scraping the housing by the compressor side, nothing else that I could see.

 

[pedroYUL]

Well, for as much as I kept my fingers crossed, the CEL returned. I will be scanning to see if the value changed.

Also, it seems that I will be changing that actuator for another one - I have 3 now!...time to buy some circlips lol

 

[oilhammer]

So much work, for something that doesn't even need to be there, LOL.

 

[pedroYUL]

So much work, for something that doesn't even need to be there, LOL.

Tell me about it!

New, like brand spanking new, actuator installed and properly adjusted. Took it for a spin, some 3 miles including a little highway and no codes...all fingers crossed.

 

[pedroYUL]

Last entry, to close this off. Car has traveled now more than 100km without codes at all.

43.2 measuring block key on is now 12.7%
43.2 engine running is now 112.1%

Meaning, a difference very close to 100 -> ECU happy -> everybody !

To summarize: flaky smart actuator, flaky N75, and flaky turbo.

 

[wonneber]

Well, for as much as I kept my fingers crossed, the CEL returned. I will be scanning to see if the value changed.

Also, it seems that I will be changing that actuator for another one - I have 3 now!...time to buy some circlips lol

I never had problems getting the clip off,
I tied dental floos to the clip so it was easier to find when it flew trying to put it on.

 

[pedroYUL]

I never had problems getting the clip off,
I tied dental floos to the clip so it was easier to find when it flew trying to put it on.

Not sure I would have the manual dexterity and eyes to tie a string on an already installed circlip...in any case, I didn't have to undo that end of the actuator. Just unscrew the whole tip, and screw it to the new actuator.

 

[wonneber]

It might not be possible when the clip is on.
I use a tiny flat screw driver to get the clip started and have a small strong magnet by the clip.
Tie the floos on before you loose the clip.
I get the magnets out of old computer hard drives.
I lifted a hammer that fell down a wall with it and some cord.