Now what?

[JASONP]

So after alot of work to my wife's 2002 Golf 1.9 TDI regarding fuel issues and low power,I'm at whits end and had enough of this thing.
So far I have :
Replaced MAF
Cleaned EGR and Intake
Cleaned N75 Valve
Vacuum Tested and replaced all lines
New FTS
New FF
Diesel Purge
New SMOG .216 nozzles
Hammer Mod

the list goes on
I used to get QA Upper(P1562) and Lower Limit(P1563) faults, CEL's and this is what's leading me to believe it's the pump. After doing the nozzles the car has more power and seems to be better, but when pushed too far, it bogs down like its starving for fuel?

CEL's no longer present, and there are none stored or pending.
IQ is set at 3.2 mg/str, it has jumped around to 0 and 8 by itself at idle
Timing is at 48, a little advanced but in spec at NOT.

Wife called me after work and said the car was harder to start,chugging badly and blowing white smoke?

Really not lovin this car right now.

 

[Bob_Fout]

Can we see your timing graph after a minute or two with "Cloud" turned on?

The self-changing IQ sure sounds like it's pump related.

 

[JASONP]

Thanks Bob,
Wife's not home yet but I checked it on Saturday and it was around 45-48 at idle, but did cloud at 41- 50 or so.

I have been dreading the pump for a while now, guess it's finally giving up the ghost?
I will get a graph as soon as she gets home.

 

[MoldovaDIZEL]

gilles is your pump man!

 

[P2B]

Sad to say, but the QA faults, unstable IQ, and now hard starting with white smoke (unburned fuel) all sound like a pump on it's way out

How many KMs has it done?

You might try logging group 4 at WOT (assuming that's when it "bogs down") to see if actual start of injection tracks requested.

Simon

 

[Uberhare]

I 2nd the pump theory.....

 

[VDUB TECH]

id be inclined to check the wiring from the ecu to the QA ive seen a couple 02s with flaky ecms and/or broken wires to the QA theres a trend it seems to be mostly 02s

 

[JASONP]

214,000k just a baby,but been having issues for about 6-7 months.

also no matter what I've done to try and rid the fuel lines of air, at idle it turns milky, all new clamps at all connections.
Sooo....
Anyone have a used pump?

 

[VDUB TECH]

what about the seals on the thermostatic tee?What about drilling the check valve in the sending unit?

 

[JASONP]

what about the seals on the thermostatic tee?What about drilling the check valve in the sending unit?

Seals are brand new with filter, and were checked again, she did say her last tank was from a questionable source?
Here are some graphs/screen shots, I'm hoping it maybe just a matter of retiming .





I did change the Start of Injection back to 1.8deg BTDC but no change in idle or performance

 

[Bob_Fout]

Your timing is grossly retarded... should be between the blue and green lines.

 

[JASONP]

Your timing is grossly retarded... should be between the blue and green lines.

Yup sure is, so my question is, can it be as simple as loosening the pump and retiming?

Too dark now and no garage, so it has to wait till later.

 

[P2B]

Yup sure is, so my question is, can it be as simple as loosening the pump and retiming?

In your first post timing was 48, now it's 32. Is it bouncing around that much, or has it moved? Bouncing would point back to the pump, moving suggests a problem in the belt path.

Simon

 

[JASONP]

In your first post timing was 48, now it's 32. Is it bouncing around that much, or has it moved? Bouncing would point back to the pump, moving suggests a problem in the belt path.

Simon

Pretty sure it was at 45-48 last weekend, and when I checked it last night, that's what was recorded.
I'm thinking the belt may have slipped, when I had a bonehead moment.
There is another thread on that.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=273888

 

[JASONP]

SO I picked up the car from my wife's work and wouldn't you know it, CEL came back on for the P1562 Quantity Adjuster Upper limit Reached.
So I drove it home and WOW is it pathetic, falls flat on it's face if you accel to hard like you just shut the key off while accelerating.
Windex was gracious enough to offer to drop by and have a looksee but, I managed to get the timing set just right before he got here, and talked to him after the fact and guided me through a few other things.
I did spray some Liquid Wrench around all the coonections and the shaft of the pump but there are still a million air bubbles.
I also removed the fuel sending unit, and it seems to be fine.
I guess the Quantity Adjuster is pooched and the pump is sucking air.
I,ve been thinking about the PSI PowerBox that I had on this car for about 2 yrs and recenlty within the last year since I removed it, I have been having probl;ems with low power, and this was a last ditch effort to try and rule out that it wasn't the pump,guess I was wrong, but all in all I probably only spent no more than $150 in parts, and about 12 hrs of my time.
So here is my timing graph after the pump move, check the CLOUD, sign of a bad pump?
I did a full scan of the car and nothing came up in terms of a short to ground of aany kind.

The car is off to Weide Motors in cambridge in the morning for a second oppinion.
Feel free to add yours.

 

[yetta0]

After you readjusted your timing, did you go back and adjust the IQ setting again??

 

[JASONP]

Yes I did, the IQ was at 4.2 but fulxuates up to 5.4 and bcak down again and results in lumpy idle.
I did rest it it to 5.8-6.0 and now idles smoothly but still stumbles and hesitates when accelerating under any load.

 

[yetta0]

Would you be able to put in a known good MAF?? It kinda sounds like its dead, eventhough you stated it was replaced already.

 

[JASONP]

MAF readings are fine , they match the ACTUAL vs REQUESTED, the MAF was removed from my car couple months ago, cleaned and installed in hers.
What gets me is the white smoke, definately not form a MAF issue

 

[MoldovaDIZEL]

check the maf in group 3
3d gear, 1500-4000 rpm full throttle, actual & requested should be above 800

 

[JASONP]

check the maf in group 3
3d gear, 1500-4000 rpm full throttle, actual & requested should be above 800

Full throttle ends up bucking and kicking, never gets to 2500

 

[MoldovaDIZEL]

ooo, damm
try driving with it disconnected, i couldnt get over 3000 when i was in limp mode because of the whole in the OMI, as soon as i disconnected the maf,some power came back....
but i still think its ur pump :S
good choice on weide!

 

[JASONP]

It's got power in the low end of rpm, but when the ECU advance the timing thats when it craps out.
Weide Motors seem decent enough,only specialize in VW

 

[MoldovaDIZEL]

vw,porche and audi
i talk to his son (works there as well) at the monday meet
he just bought a mk4 tdi, black like mine
already started doing power mods to it , he's very very into it
id check the fuel filter and the clips around it...

 

[Bob_Fout]

MAF readings are fine , they match the ACTUAL vs REQUESTED, the MAF was removed from my car couple months ago, cleaned and installed in hers.
What gets me is the white smoke, definately not form a MAF issue

White smoke is a timing/injection issue. We now see two places where timing/injection issues are shown: white smoke and this horrible timing graph.

 

[P2B]

QA codes, timing fluctuating, IQ fluctuating, white smoke - dollars to donuts it's the pump

Simon

 

[JASONP]

QA codes, timing fluctuating, IQ fluctuating, white smoke - dollars to donuts it's the pump

Simon

very sad indeed.

 

[JASONP]

White smoke is a timing/injection issue. We now see two places where timing/injection issues are shown: white smoke and this horrible timing graph.

The second graph looks better though agreed? appart from the clouding/unstable QA...

 

[Bob_Fout]

The second graph looks better though agreed? appart from the clouding/unstable QA...

Oh, yes, the timing is more advanced, but the bunny-like (jump, jump, hop, hop) cloud is what I mean is horrible.

 

[robnitro]

I have a similar cloud w my old 10mm w 146k and this 11mm at 75k and no issues at all. Maybe you have a clogged fuel filter? Also for upper limit QA, that happens on some ppl who get evry mod or run bigger injectors than the program was tuned for. Turning group 01 adaptation down to 32700 or so eliminated that issue for me, and I can still make smoke if I wanted to.